Westminster Politics

Maticmaker

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Bert_ said:
The only thing we have left is to stand up and set an example. Hopefully we'll do that one day.
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:lol: will anybody notice?

Wasn't the message from this Chinese government representative that Britain 'isn't a player anymore', so if he's right, why do we keep up our posturing?

I was listening to David Cameron giving it out recently as Britain's Foreign Secretary!!!
The mind boggles, what must other countries think when the man who as PM set up the biggest political 'cock-up' in living memory in this country with the Referendum. Now he is sent out to face the world as our Foreign Secretary.

Is this just the 'tail-end' of a government with no where else to go, or is it reality?

Why should (at the moment) Israel, Russia and China, etc. give a monkey's about what we say or even do.
Perhaps someone (N. Farage perhaps) should think about launching a new political party the MBGA and throw in our lot with Trump. :eek:

Sir Keir come in and save us please!!!
 

Herman Toothrot

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‘Middle-class lefties’ won’t stop Labour using private sector to cut NHS backlog, Streeting says
Shadow health secretary says quicker treatment to stop working class families being left behind is more important than ideology.


I'm sure it will stop with the backlog and this is just to help the working class. Honest Wes.
 

Jippy

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Herman Toothrot said:
‘Middle-class lefties’ won’t stop Labour using private sector to cut NHS backlog, Streeting says
Shadow health secretary says quicker treatment to stop working class families being left behind is more important than ideology.


I'm sure it will stop with the backlog and this is just to help the working class. Honest Wes.
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There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.
 

TwoSheds

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Jippy said:
There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.
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Well there is and there isn't. Some of the private hospitals are seemingly not doing a good job. We should only be willing to pay if the care is up to the standard required. Perhaps we ought to be looking at buying the private hospitals or something.
 

Mart1974

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TwoSheds said:
Well there is and there isn't. Some of the private hospitals are seemingly not doing a good job. We should only be willing to pay if the care is up to the standard required. Perhaps we ought to be looking at buying the private hospitals or something.
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This. Private healthcare is not the rosy world that people think. My daughter is 17 and had suspected heart problem. I have private health cover and obviously wanted her seen ASAP, NHS was 6 month minimum wait. I could not get her seen in the private sector by a heart specialist without travelling at least 80 miles as the private hospitals will not allow adult doctors to work on under 18s and there are very few private specialists in paediatric heart conditions. The NHS appointment came through, down the road and they were brilliant.

I suspect it is not the only area in which the private sector is overly selective.
 

That'sHernandez

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F-Red said:
Telecoms is the only sector where it has seemed to have improved service levels and competition.
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Telecoms as in broadband or mobile phones? Because BT were capable of rolling out fibre direct to houses at low cost (due to economies of scale) in the 90s if they hadn’t been broken up by the Tories (Thatcher).
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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F-Red said:
Telecoms is the only sector where it has seemed to have improved service levels and competition.
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Absolutely not. It’s been a car crash that’s seen rampant profiteering and us left behind in both broadband speed and cell phone coverage.
 

F-Red

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That'sHernandez said:
Telecoms as in broadband or mobile phones? Because BT were capable of rolling out fibre direct to houses at low cost (due to economies of scale) in the 90s if they hadn’t been broken up by the Tories (Thatcher).
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More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.

UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Absolutely not. It’s been a car crash that’s seen rampant profiteering and us left behind in both broadband speed and cell phone coverage.
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We have some of the lowest costs and most competitive markets in Europe, you could make a strong argument that privatisation has benefitted consumers. Coverage wise, certainly in rural areas, has been a failure but that’s firmly with the regulator not driving for coverage but more about speed.
 

Maticmaker

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CassiusClaymore said:
Genuine question - Is there anything in this country that has been privatised that is now run better? I can't think of anything.
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Whether a business or service is privatised or in public ownership doesn't guarantee it will be run better.

In many privatised areas, businesses or services are not necessarily being run better, for whilst that may be the aim, the bottom line is profit, and the larger the profit the better.
In public services the bottom line is to control spending to within what the government of the day will allow, this inevitable ends up with 'becoming the best it can be' for the money invested, less in, less out is really the mantra.

The difference in the two really boils down to 'the imperative', if a private company/service does not make a profit then it has to change or go under, the owners ultimately decide. With a public service, the imperative is to keep going whatever, efficiency and effectiveness are stipulated, but often sacrificed, in an effort to reduce costs, the owners i.e the public have little if any direct control and the only lever available (GE) has to wait five years or so to get pulled.
 
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Jippy

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TwoSheds said:
Well there is and there isn't. Some of the private hospitals are seemingly not doing a good job. We should only be willing to pay if the care is up to the standard required. Perhaps we ought to be looking at buying the private hospitals or something.
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You'd imagine they could be used where there are logjams in the NHS.
I'm sure private hospitals do make feck ups, particularly given staff work across both. Surely the NHS can screen out ones that are shite.
 

TwoSheds

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Jippy said:
You'd imagine they could be used where there are logjams in the NHS.
I'm sure private hospitals do make feck ups, particularly given staff work across both. Surely the NHS can screen out ones that are shite.
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If you need to employ (and train) people to go and audit all the private hospitals, is it not just cheaper and more effective to build some new hospitals and/or hire some new NHS staff though? It's potentially nothing more than a sticking plaster solution to turn to the private providers. It's well known for example that the private hospitals generally consider it too expensive to run A&Es and ICUs so they just discharge the patients that need them to the NHS. So at that point are you just creating more work for ambulance drivers, admin staff, all at great expense, and at the risk of lower patient care standards?
 

Jippy

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TwoSheds said:
If you need to employ (and train) people to go and audit all the private hospitals, is it not just cheaper and more effective to build some new hospitals and/or hire some new NHS staff though? It's potentially nothing more than a sticking plaster solution to turn to the private providers. It's well known for example that the private hospitals generally consider it too expensive to run A&Es and ICUs so they just discharge the patients that need them to the NHS. So at that point are you just creating more work for ambulance drivers, admin staff, all at great expense, and at the risk of lower patient care standards?
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I dunno the maths behind it all tbf. But when you have massive waiting lists, you're always going to have private, not to mention all the procedures considered non-essential or cosmetic. They must reduce some of the load on waiting lists, but no idea how it all balances out.
 

711

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Jippy said:
I dunno the maths behind it all tbf. But when you have massive waiting lists, you're always going to have private, not to mention all the procedures considered non-essential or cosmetic. They must reduce some of the load on waiting lists, but no idea how it all balances out.
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Fully private hospitals would not be too bad if they were heavily taxed so that those who gain from their wealth are at the same time contributing to others. And I'm aware they would be saving the NHS cash by not using it, I would still take that and tax on top.

However people are often not using fully private hospitals, what they're doing is paying for consultations with NHS doctors to jump the queue, meaning everyone else spends longer in the queue than they need to, in effect creating a worse queue for others. Then they might pay for private treatment from NHS staff that again leaves less for those unable to pay that extra.
 

Camilo

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F-Red said:
More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.



We have some of the lowest costs and most competitive markets in Europe, you could make a strong argument that privatisation has benefitted consumers. Coverage wise, certainly in rural areas, has been a failure but that’s firmly with the regulator not driving for coverage but more about speed.
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I spent 2 years fighting with Vodafone in my old house (where a 4G router was my only real option) about why the speeds regularly went from 40 up and down to 0.5 up and down. Every time there was some excuse. Mobile networks aren't mission critical. We expect them to be crap, so they are.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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The Streeting suggestion is either efficient or gateway drug.

If the suggestion is that private hospitals cannot sit empty while the NHS is in its knees, and legislation is used to force the companies to be as full as the NHS at sensible recompense… great.

If the suggestion is that Private Hospitals can charge extortionate rates that kneecaps the NHS, with NHS staff moonlighting there to do the same thing for more pay… nah.

Masses of daylight between the two. But I do trust Streeting to make things better. I think his head is on straight and I don’t think he’s aiming at a part-privatised NHS in the long run

The mad nonsensical headlines bear no relation to the policy suggestions, nor the words said. Yes I’m sure that the New-New Labour is closer to the private sector than any of us want. But I simply don’t think there’s a better short term option, and I don’t think they’ll be baking in long term commitments to resolve short term problems.

Non story.
 

Balljy

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F-Red said:
More mobile than fixed services, although fixed line broadband will be redundant in 5-10 years as 5G becomes more common place.
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The 5G that was advertised is way off arriving in the UK with the wavelength selloff being delayed again last year. What we have so far is a slightly enhanced 4G and isn't going to have any impact on broadband.

When the selloff happens I guess there's a chance, but we'll have to revise how.we use routers. The mmwave bandwidth (which is the one with increased speeds) can't even pass through humans, nevermind walls so will need a decent amount of setup.
 

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
The Streeting suggestion is either efficient or gateway drug.

If the suggestion is that private hospitals cannot sit empty while the NHS is in its knees, and legislation is used to force the companies to be as full as the NHS at sensible recompense… great.

If the suggestion is that Private Hospitals can charge extortionate rates that kneecaps the NHS, with NHS staff moonlighting there to do the same thing for more pay… nah.

Masses of daylight between the two. But I do trust Streeting to make things better. I think his head is on straight and I don’t think he’s aiming at a part-privatised NHS in the long run

The mad nonsensical headlines bear no relation to the policy suggestions, nor the words said. Yes I’m sure that the New-New Labour is closer to the private sector than any of us want. But I simply don’t think there’s a better short term option, and I don’t think they’ll be baking in long term commitments to resolve short term problems.

Non story.
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I'm genuinely curious as to why? What has he done or said to make you think he's trustworthy?

Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Mogget said:
I'm genuinely curious as to why? What has he done or said to make you think he's trustworthy?

Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?
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Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.
 

Sweet Square

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Mogget said:
Do you not find it concerning he's advocating for increased usage of private healthcare whilst also receiving donations from private healthcare companies?
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Yep for anyone who doesn’t know
In the last two years, Mr Streeting has accepted £30,000 in donations from businessman John Armitage, who runs hedge fund Egerton Capital. In 2023 Mr Armitage was reported to have a stake worth over $500m (£395m) in US private health insurance company UnitedHealth.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/art...and-nhs-staff-in-desperate-need-of-a-pay-rise
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Flying high

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.
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Free at the point of use is not the only important factor though. As we've seen, it's private companies profiting from industries that either are, or should be nationalised, which is costing the taxpayer too much to maintain standards.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Jippy said:
There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.
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He's trying to placate the working-class righties? The country is insane.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Jippy said:
There's an obvious logic to using the private to clear the backlog and try and improve patient outcomes, but why does he have to couch it in such needlessly confrontational language? The guy is a tool and such a big liability. It never ends well for arrogant gobby shites like him.
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Because he's not talking to you.
 

Mogget

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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Every single thing he has said is trustable. The headlines are not.

He’s not advocating for increased use of private healthcare care. He’s advocating for use of private healthcare capacity.

I don’t care how much donations he takes. He’s a good egg. He maintains that the NHS should be free at point of use and has a good sense of how that can happen.

The left is so shellshocked at minor shit. He’s advocating for a private usage faaaaar below the Tory subterfuge sell-off plan. People should just roll with it and complain if he goes too far. He’s actually suggesting a regression from what’s actually happening.

The media is twisting reality. As always. It’s trying to stop the left voting for better outcomes. Seems to be succeeding.
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Fair enough. I massively disagree with that but I guess we'll find out if/when Labour win and he has to make these decisions.
 

4bars

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The reality of private healthcare is that the poor will die more than the rich. Period.

As other point out, the doctors and nurses that work in NHS, will be working in private sector for more money. Not only that, for several treatments and tests that requires a very expensive machinery and installations, the private sector will go to the NHS and pay rent for this.

To not forget that this private sector will use the resources of the tax payers that paid for the universities resources to educate the doctors and nurses

In the end the private sector will not add any doctors or nurses, therefore, no more hours/services to the market that are not overworked (worse care) healthcare professionals that wants to work public and private for money. They might be more cost efficient in certain areas but that might result in worse care and the benefits will be kept by then.

So basically is creating a system for the ones that can afford paying private to jump the line for the same or worse care while the poor has to wait a longer time because they can't jump the line

Anything else are lies lies lies lies lies and more lies
 

Dobba

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The country built hospitals during COVID to increase capacity. The idea our only option to temporarily increase capacity is to give barrowloads of cash to some private health company is the biggest load of absolute shite Streeting has come up with and anyone parroting it should be embarrassed for doing so. At least Wes is getting paid handsomely to do it.
 

Pexbo

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Dobba said:
The country built hospitals during COVID to increase capacity. The idea our only option to temporarily increase capacity is to give barrowloads of cash to some private health company is the biggest load of absolute shite Streeting has come up with and anyone parroting it should be embarrassed for doing so. At least Wes is getting paid handsomely to do it.
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There was no staff to fill them.
 
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