From my POV it's more "we trust INEOS as long as they look outside of British and don't just appoint Southgate or Potter"
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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We should maybe try AI managers next
literally everyone on the caf saw it coming that a midfield of bruno and mount won’t work. Its mental that a professional manager couldn’t predict that
It’s quite laughable the excuses that get put forward. Like honestly, what has Eth actually done well to warrant this backing? The start of last season wasn’t even that spectacular.
No it was awful? We got smashed by Brentford then beaten by Brighton.
There’s a lot of things us fans can see which managers don’t. Or choose not to. Some managers are stubborn and don’t want to change the ways, there desperate for there ways to work so they can say they’ve proved everyone wrong.
This explanation seems quite obvious and accurate:
Last season the rather conventional setup suited us (not only Casemiro, Eriksen, but also Fred) + we got a bit lucky with some players hitting great form. It also proved this bunch of players is capable of much more than what ETH was able to squeeze out of it this season.
There is an interesting question, what has ETH done since the cup win that would make people have any confidence in him? Did the Carabao Cup (what actually means winning games we were expected to win under any manager) has given him so much credit?
Or perhaps the players do believe in his methods because they produced positive results last year and two cup finals. The point I had made earlier is that we’re not seeing the usual leaks and take down in the media of the manager that we’ve seen in the past. The players and the club, unlike the supporters, may view the many distractions off the field and unusual number of injuries to key players in the squad, as viable reasons why we’ve seen such mixed results this season.
It‘s more like the managers see the problems, try to fix them but it is not straightforward to do so. The fans often misdiagnose the issues.
In my opinion our problems are turnovers and lack of discipline in pressing. Some of that is on account of massive injuries.
I think there is always a lot of internal political games at play at Barca which I think hasn't helped him, when it is either internal or external and only one of them, then I am sure it can be managed but when there is pressure from both, it becomes nearly impossible. I am sure he would do a great job here and would be ideally placed in my opinion to nurture this next group coming through.
I‘m opposed to Xavi; I was following Barcelona back then and not convinced of his qualities at all. He did worse than Koeman with a much better squad.
I shudder to think how badly things would go with this MU group of players. They cannot play a style of football comparable to Barça.
So you think Ten Hag is a better manager than Xavi.
By what metric? Because it certainly isn't Win% or Trophies won.
They won La Liga quite convincingly under Xavi.
We would have players with 12 fingers
Not wishing to join a pile on here but your post is confusing. You refer to Xavi’s Barcelona stint in a past tense despite him still being manager, then compare him unfavourably to Koeman despite him winning La Liga last season and being 1game away from a CL semifinal this year.
Have you got the two mixed up?
Xavi is an interesting name. It's a clear break at that point and a commitment to a variant of tiki-taka. I personally would be bored to death while we work it out - it's a 3 season project atleast if we go that way. I think Ancelotti's Real is much more enjoyable to watch than Pep's City or Xavi's Barca and I'm now back to hoping that Ten Hag somehow turns it around and succeeds at his vision.
Lightning fast counter attacks, intensity in the counter press and a beautiful marriage of pace and power with technique instead of veering too far towards technical ability.
Ask yourself what you'd rather watch -- something along the lines of Vinicius -- Mbappe -- Rodrygo or Foden -- Haaland -- Bilva.
Lightning fast counter attacks, intensity in the counter press and a beautiful marriage of pace and power with technique instead of veering too far towards technical ability.
Ask yourself what you'd rather watch -- something along the lines of Vinicius -- Mbappe -- Rodrygo or Foden -- Haaland -- Bilva.
Both groups play exceptional football and score exceptional goals.
And even if we signed all of them, Ten Hag would fail to get them scoring as they do. Because his system is just as rank from an attacking perspective as a defending one.
Yeah, I agree it was a good answer from @Valencia Shin Crosses, and I think I replied to that with a few further thoughts a above somewhere, and will refer you to that for my thoughts about that post.
What I miss in the debate, is a bit more recognition of the fact that Ten Hag managed last season, and Ten Hag managed this season. It’s almost like two different teams, and how to explain that - and what has predictive value.
One example is if you think he has been too stubborn this season, I think you’ll have to concede he can be very pragmatic looking at last season (4-2-3-1 vs 4-1-2-3-ish). Others think he has been too pragmatic this season (transitionally direct), but fail to accept that he made a backline including DDG improve vastly in playing out from the back and a frontline with Rashford, Martial/Weghorst and Antony in front of Eriksen deliver some of the best high pressing numbers in the league, when we had sucked at that under three previous managers. If you think 1/3rd of last season was sackable (forgetting maybe that we won four straight games to end the season with Wout Weghorst as a lone striker), you’d have to conclude that 2/3 was fantastic, not just good, when the total ends up with the second highest points return in a decade and two cup finals to boot. If it was just luck that Rashford scored 17 league goals last season, maybe it’s just bad luck he has only scored 7 this season.
I think we can all agree (hopefully) that Ten Hag’s first season here was not a result of coasting on the fantastic ground work laid by Solskjær, Rangnik, Woodward, Murtaugh and the Glazers. What we have is Ten Hag having two swings of the bat, one above expectation (of most), one below, and the question is what will come from a third swing.
A simplistic view is that it’s a downward trajectory from the first to the second season so this must continue. An equally simplistic view is that this second season is purely bad luck and can be totally disregarded. I think that anyone at this point concluding that anything to do with the manager position is a ‘no-brainer’ it’s either because they sit on information not partial to any of us (Ten Hag slept with Radcliffe’s wife?), or they are not using their brain enough, and assumes nobody else is neither. I certainly won’t claim to know what will result from next season under Ten Hag, but I see enough arguments from seven of his last eight seasons to think that he can come good again. I don’t see any other managerial alternatives available that come without equally bad patches, or a CV anything close to Ten Hag’s total. If Sir Berraillsworthcox talk to everyone at the club and conclude that this season is likely a long, hard blip, I’m very inclined to agree. Equally, if they conclude that this isn’t likely to come around, that there are better candidates to work with this group of players from June on, I’ll have little reason to question that.
I always suspected they were masters of mind control.
The first one I'll give him a pass on as he's Dutch. They all think wingers should be inverted.
The second one though was clearly bullshit to explain why he wasn't playing Varane (because he'd probably fell out with him).
No my memory's fine mate thanks.
We had defensive injury crises regularly for many years under Ferguson, we just played 2nd or 3rd choice defenders and plodded on. It's not like we've been playing McTominay and Fernandes at the back all season, we've had good defenders available all season. Other than bad luck with injuries what else has happened that's so unusual that would explain our atrocious form/performances? The manage fell out with a player? Anything else unusual?
And it has to be pointed out (regularly it seems) our shit form didn't start this season. Our current awful form has been ongoing since last March, during that time we've probably mustered about 4-5 decent performances.
Xavi actually speaks English quite well. Other than that I'd agree, I don't see him managing in England in the near future.
I can't fathom how he identifies players and implements his tactics.
If you wanted to play a high pressing style of football, why on earth would you sign old players (Casemiro, Eriksen) and then slow ones (Amrabat)? Those players are supposed to sit in front of the defence while the others push forward, but they're not mobile enough to do the job he's assigned them. It's almost as if he's forgotten how tough the Premier League is or how other managers can simply overload the midfield to expose a single pivot.
Casemiro was very good last season, and that was largely because he had an extra pair of legs in midfield alongside him, so what does he do? Gets rid of his most energetic midfielder (Fred) even though he was seemingly happy at the club. I'm not suggesting that Fred was a world-beater, but he was a useful player to have around and he could be relied upon to do a specific job in a supporting role.
I know that this tactical decision to play a single pivot developed over last summer after he had already signed two of those midfielders, but they're practically useless in the system he wants to play. It's no wonder that he's fallen out with so many of the squad because his decision making isn't consistent.
He's also signed Mount, who can't play in a single pivot because he's an attacking midfielder who presses high up the pitch, but he's essentially a back-up to Bruno, who's club captain. Why waste so much of the transfer kitty on a player you probably aren't going to pick?
If you wanted to play a high pressing style of football, why on earth would you sign old players (Casemiro, Eriksen) and then slow ones (Amrabat)? Those players are supposed to sit in front of the defence while the others push forward, but they're not mobile enough to do the job he's assigned them. It's almost as if he's forgotten how tough the Premier League is or how other managers can simply overload the midfield to expose a single pivot.
Casemiro was very good last season, and that was largely because he had an extra pair of legs in midfield alongside him, so what does he do? Gets rid of his most energetic midfielder (Fred) even though he was seemingly happy at the club. I'm not suggesting that Fred was a world-beater, but he was a useful player to have around and he could be relied upon to do a specific job in a supporting role.
I know that this tactical decision to play a single pivot developed over last summer after he had already signed two of those midfielders, but they're practically useless in the system he wants to play. It's no wonder that he's fallen out with so many of the squad because his decision making isn't consistent.
He's also signed Mount, who can't play in a single pivot because he's an attacking midfielder who presses high up the pitch, but he's essentially a back-up to Bruno, who's club captain. Why waste so much of the transfer kitty on a player you probably aren't going to pick?
But ETH has experienced players he has signed who are not starting. Look at Antony, if he was any good then Garnacho wouldnt be starting. Mainoo is great, but we chased Amrabat all summer and paid a big loan fee for him. He now sits on the bench. We know our defern
I am sorry but this is just naive. 'I see enough arguments from seven of his last eight seasons to think that he can come good again'. Really? Managing in the Dutch league is certainly incomparable to the PL, also he was managing by far the biggest club with a strong structure and strong resources. Its a huge step up to both the PL and United. He had a good season last year, but it fell off for much of H2. He also failed to rotate at all, so at least some of the injuries may be due to this. He has signed a lot of players, several of whom now sit on the bench and are not good enough. The key thing is performances. I don't care about results (which are bad) but we are just a mess. That is not 'bad luck', its just bad coaching. Against Liverpool, aside from Shaw and Martinez, its almost his strongest team. I don't understand why he insists on leaving us so open, from the first match of the season to the latest match. I expected Murtough to go, despite some reassuring noises at one point, and he is. I also expect ETH to go.
Xavi’s English is better than Ten Hag’s ffs. I’m serious. There’s a bunch of interviews on YouTube with British reporters asking questions and Xavi replying in English.
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Good thing English won't be a new language to him then
He'd be a left field candidate, but I think he would love it here. Absolutely zero pressure as long as the football looks half decent, and if he can fluke a trophy he'll have a loyal following eating out of his hands every week. Dream job really.
I've been wondering this too tbh. Seems like a really logical option. He's leaving Barca by his own choice. He did a great job with them in his 1st season and even this season, Barca haven't been that bad by any means, simply behind Real. Likely going to be in the semis of CL at a minimum. His style of play based on possession is what we should be moving towards imo, instead of constantly relying on counter attack, as we have since LVG. He has a couple videos on the Coaches Voice youtube channel if people want to look into his tactics. He can speak English too and used it when coaching in Saudi Arabia (response to the person saying he'd need to learn a new language).
Here's the most relevant video:
The part about pressing would be the biggest advantage for us. Xavi really emphasises pressing high and winning the ball back in the opponents' half. We wouldn't be getting these big gaps between defence and midfield that we currently get under ETH. Similar to Al-Saad, our players could benefit from seeing the ball as a treasure instead of a bomb.
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Thiago Motta
Xavi
Nagelsmann
Zidane
These should be our targets
Xavi
Nagelsmann
Zidane
These should be our targets
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Anybody remember my semi reliable scoops about INEOS?
ETH is gone end of the season.
ETH is gone end of the season.
I’d like to know what they do in training on a daily basis. Surely ETH must be coaching them on how to press, when to press, when to be disciplined and not be as open. And the most important one is how to control games… we’ve seen us concede late goals all season yet nothings getting worked on in training… when we’re leading in the final stages of matches, we just can’t control games. He’s got to coach them how to control a game. It’s simple. It’s something you’d learn at youth level.
I actually think we'd be one of Xavi's highest priorities if we were interested. He always spoke extremely highly of us, including saying that if he had ever left Barca (as a player) then we'd be the the team he'd have wanted to join.
People who have paid more attention to Barca than I have say that he's struggled quite a lot more than what it seems though.
Xavi started with a run way worse than Koeman despite having a reinforced squad with Lewandowski, Raphinha, Kounde. I stopped following after that.
It certainly wasn‘t realistic to expect Barça to win LaLiga with the squad Koeman had. He came pretty close though.
It was interesting to see the run up to the CL match between PSG and Barca, with Luis Enrique saying that PSG’s system was a more pure version of the Barca ethos than Xavi’s… In fact, during the title run last year, Xavi explained that they needed to be more direct in attacking than the classic tiki taka style. He continued to praise Dembele and how important he was to their tactics.
Despite the fact that Luis Enrique was the last Barca manager to win the CL, I’ve always felt there was an asterisk as he had Messi, Neymar and Suarez at the peak of their powers. You can make a case, given squad quality, that Xavi has been the best manager at Barca since Pep.
Xavi leaving the Parc de Princes with a 3-2 win and probably overall a worse squad and relying on teenagers was a damn good win and performance.
By now I wonder if Julian Nagelsmann is the manager whose name is butchered in the most different ways on this forum
I'd have thought his English would have improved by now after 2 years in England to be honest.
Why would it? Harry Kane lived all his live in England and it sometimes sounds like his English finally improved after moving to München.
Not really. Do you fact check anything before you make any statement? Seriously. Koeman had Messi who scored 30 in 35 appearances in the league that year, Griezmann, De Jong, and a brilliant Pedri. They finished 3rd in the league. He started out with 4 wins 3 draws and 3 losses in his second season and was sacked in late October.
Question: is your username @NLunited a reference to being a Dutch national and having a bias toward Dutch managers like Koeman and Ten Hag?
There have been some interesting ways of spelling his name on this forumBy now I wonder if Julian Nagelsmann is the manager whose name is butchered in the most different ways on this forum
If Nagelsmann becomes the manager, i think it would be best to refer to him as JN, Julian or Nag because his actual name seems a bit too difficult.