Yeah don't see us interested in either of those whatsoever,so who do people that voted no (I agree) think we should appoint in the summer?
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
One big factor here is the impact of sacking yet another manager on our dressing room culture, which is broken.
Regardless of how good or bad he has done, sacking him says to the players
1. you can be as shit as you want and get away with it, again
2. the manager will always take the fall
3. you get yet another chance under a new manager, who by the way you can also get sacked if you don't like
Even if Ten Hag is not the right man for the job, and even if it means another mediocre season - keeping him in place and telling the players you need to play for this manager - or any manager for this matter, holds power and can be part of the solution for our broken dressing room.
If I was in charge I'd say we recognise he has been operating under extremely challenging circumstances so will support him going him into next season, and we expect you to do the same. That doesn't guarantee his safety for the season and we are keeping our options open, but nor does it guarantee any of your futures at this club either.
Regardless of how good or bad he has done, sacking him says to the players
1. you can be as shit as you want and get away with it, again
2. the manager will always take the fall
3. you get yet another chance under a new manager, who by the way you can also get sacked if you don't like
Even if Ten Hag is not the right man for the job, and even if it means another mediocre season - keeping him in place and telling the players you need to play for this manager - or any manager for this matter, holds power and can be part of the solution for our broken dressing room.
If I was in charge I'd say we recognise he has been operating under extremely challenging circumstances so will support him going him into next season, and we expect you to do the same. That doesn't guarantee his safety for the season and we are keeping our options open, but nor does it guarantee any of your futures at this club either.
I'd rather a manager who wins trophies than a guy who comes 2nd every year.
He had it wrapped up in a bow for him at Ajax. His transfers were duds.
I agree with it's all excuses, not because the club is perfect or everything went smoothly but because head coaches/managers almost never deal with seasons without challenges and the difference in quality is demonstrated by their ability to deal with adversity and needs to adjust. The excuses used in favor of ETH are in fact massive red flags and better results under a better structure wouldn't be the sign of good head coach but an average one that needs to be structurally propped up which isn't what you want at the top.
You could easily flip that debate. Assuming he would get let go off after the season has ended, you tell those players that you’ve identified already to go find new clubs.
that sends the message that nobody is safe under the new structure
As we got knocked out of the various cups this year, people claimed that this could be a good thing long term, as it would allow him more time on the training pitch actually working with the players.
As the season has gone on, the more time he's had with them, the worse we look.
He's not good enough, and people are lying to themselves thinking he will magically come good just because someone above him stops him signing his shite ex-players
As the season has gone on, the more time he's had with them, the worse we look.
He's not good enough, and people are lying to themselves thinking he will magically come good just because someone above him stops him signing his shite ex-players
I'm interested who do you think would be leaving this summer if Ten Hag stayed that would be ''getting away with it again'' if he left?
Bearing in mind of course that with a new footballing structure hopefully in place this summer those types of decisions won't be the managers to make on his own anymore.
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You talk about magic like a good structure isn't a massive advantage. Look at the likes of Pelegrini and Mancini, decent managers, won the PL. Would they have won anything without the excellent structure? We saw with Pelegrini he couldn't do jack shit at West Ham. Look at Potter when he went to Chelsea (probably the most similar to us at the moment!) absolutely flopped like you wouldn't believe.
In the modern game, footballing structure is like Oxygen to a deep sea diver. Without it you are fecked.
Allright, I'm a yes man.
It's the hope that kills you. I love to think back to that Chelsea game in december. That fantastic new Guardian writer Jonathan Liew wrote this about it
""
Imagine what Manchester United could do if Erik ten Hag hadn’t already lost the dressing room. Yes, it’s been another of those weeks at Old Trafford: rancour, rumour and recrimination, barbs in the press and barbs at the press, defeat at Newcastle followed by this stirring recovery against Chelsea, and the startling realisation that United are now three points behind Manchester City. It’s still only Thursday, by the way.
Perhaps ultimately this win only buys Ten Hag a few days’ grace, a warm flume of goodwill that lasts only as long as it takes for Dominic Solanke to run through on goal for Bournemouth on Saturday afternoon. Back in the grip of crisis, back in the now-familiar lexicon of surly unsourced stories about dressing room discontent. Such is the way of things at football’s most reliable content provider. This beast must always eat.""
And how right he was that the next saturday Solanke and Bournemouth would eat Manchester United alive.
"On another night, perhaps Chelsea score from one of these counterattacks. Perhaps in another game United come up against a better finisher than Nicolas Jackson, who for all his talent looks like a man playing football in a hall of mirrors. This is the high-wire act that Ten Hag is enacting: a daring gamble that United will gain more going forward than they lose going back.
That once Lisandro Martínez and Raphaël Varane come back, once he brings the defensive line up 10 yards, once Rasmus Højlund hits some form, once Mason Mount gets up to speed, lawless abandon will begin to resemble a sustainable attacking blueprint. That he can shout down the noise in the short term while building something in the long term. Right now, in the raptured afterglow of a big win, it feels like a gamble being won. But best to come back and check in a few days, just to make sure."
Whatever the justified criticism on our current lack of midfield, I only figured out because of articles like this Ten Hag does it on purpose, icw an Ole defense that drops too deep. That gives me hope, but it will likely kill me.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-off-against-chelsea-as-mctominay-steals-show
It's the hope that kills you. I love to think back to that Chelsea game in december. That fantastic new Guardian writer Jonathan Liew wrote this about it
""
Imagine what Manchester United could do if Erik ten Hag hadn’t already lost the dressing room. Yes, it’s been another of those weeks at Old Trafford: rancour, rumour and recrimination, barbs in the press and barbs at the press, defeat at Newcastle followed by this stirring recovery against Chelsea, and the startling realisation that United are now three points behind Manchester City. It’s still only Thursday, by the way.
Perhaps ultimately this win only buys Ten Hag a few days’ grace, a warm flume of goodwill that lasts only as long as it takes for Dominic Solanke to run through on goal for Bournemouth on Saturday afternoon. Back in the grip of crisis, back in the now-familiar lexicon of surly unsourced stories about dressing room discontent. Such is the way of things at football’s most reliable content provider. This beast must always eat.""
And how right he was that the next saturday Solanke and Bournemouth would eat Manchester United alive.
"On another night, perhaps Chelsea score from one of these counterattacks. Perhaps in another game United come up against a better finisher than Nicolas Jackson, who for all his talent looks like a man playing football in a hall of mirrors. This is the high-wire act that Ten Hag is enacting: a daring gamble that United will gain more going forward than they lose going back.
That once Lisandro Martínez and Raphaël Varane come back, once he brings the defensive line up 10 yards, once Rasmus Højlund hits some form, once Mason Mount gets up to speed, lawless abandon will begin to resemble a sustainable attacking blueprint. That he can shout down the noise in the short term while building something in the long term. Right now, in the raptured afterglow of a big win, it feels like a gamble being won. But best to come back and check in a few days, just to make sure."
Whatever the justified criticism on our current lack of midfield, I only figured out because of articles like this Ten Hag does it on purpose, icw an Ole defense that drops too deep. That gives me hope, but it will likely kill me.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-off-against-chelsea-as-mctominay-steals-show
Pellegrini and Mancini were more than decent managers. In the case of Pellegrini you are talking about a manager that was excellent with Villarreal, had an actually good season with Real Madrid and then did very well with an absolutely of a structure at Malaga(players and staffs weren't even paid).
If you are suggesting we accrue 115 charges which helped Mancini and Pelegrini then yes, a 'structure' helps.
Of course a structure helps, but its not going to turn him into a good manager. Let's get a decent structure in and use that to help a decent manager.
My thoughts exactly. Finishing bottom of a CL group that has Copenhagen and Galatasaray in it and you’re Manchester United is pretty sackable, but given the ownership crap and how the Glazers are the worst operators in football, I gave him the benefit of doubt back then, even though personally I thought he could have no complaints if he got sacked of the back of that.
And as we’ve had less games, we’ve not got better as team, we’ve somehow got worse when there has been more time to train and do tactics.
Regarding injuries, yes theres been an unprecedented amount but at this point how many of them are down to negligence by coaching staff? How are we still getting injury plagues in the new year when there was a huge one last year? (did someone not deep dive into why its happening and find a way to try mitigate it for the rest of the season?) There are way too injuries to say freak luck now. This is a pattern. Either or both the coaching team and medical/conditioning team are grossly incompetent, especially when Regulion was stupidly released back to Spurs leaving us with no left backs.
I continue to be amazed by the amount of posters here acting as if EtH staying is a guarantee of a clear out, and the change in manager would put in on hold.
Even ignoring the new structure and reduced responsibilities of manager in squad building, ignoring the fact that a clear out is unrealistic under any manager because of FFP - much of the squad was either signed under EtH, or given new contracts under EtH or given plenty of game time by EtH.
Yes, there are some players that EtH would happily let go, but new manager would also ideally want new incomings replacing some of the current squad. New manager would be happier to get rid of some of EtHs favorites/underperforming singings if possible, EtH would rather keep.
Besides, “giving everyone a fresh start” is just not what happened even under old structure. We had a huge clear out in the first LvG year. Jose immediately got rid of some of LvG signings. Under Ole we sold plenty of first team players in the first couple of transfer windows, same as under EtH.
And when people cite “players who threw multiple managers under the bus/should have been get rid long ago”, well of our longest serving players Rashford and Shaw signed new long term contracts under EtH, and Martial is leaving regardless of who is our manager next season.
In sum, it is a made up argument in my view, just clutching at straws to find something to justify sticking with EtH. But it is telling that it is so common, showing the lack of better arguments in his favour
I was puzzled when the argument carried on until the Ralf days, but circa 2024 when this is largely Ten Hags squad and we've gutted the squad even since Ole's time here 2 years ago. It's truly baffling that the myth persists.
Pellegrini reached a CL semi with Villarreal, the same achievement people in this very thread use to make the argument that ETH is an elite manager
Have a Thought what if the players turn up for new season with the idea of playing to get the Manager getting Sacked?
Sacking him doesn’t say any of that because for one - I don’t think anyone’s arguing the manager is the only change that should be made - plenty of underperforming players will/should go with the underperforming manager.
This squad is a relatively fresh/new squad - mostly comprised of players bought under Ole and Ten Hag, and academy additions. I’m still confused with the position/implications people make that it’s largely a squad that’s used to failing multiple managers.
United fans should stop trying to re-invent football. More often than not the buck starts and stops with the manager. Keeping a diabolically bad manager in place just to send a message to the players is an hilariously bad decision/justification. Nevermind the fact that club hierarchy and fanbase have seen and supported decisions regarding big profile/expensive players being banished quite recently. That sends a much clearer signal that the club and fans will support managers (hell, it was even reported the manager retained the support of the squad after said decisions).
Lastly, I don’t know how anyone could/would suggest these players haven’t tried/been trying for Ten Hag. They are clearly playing for him.
It’s over.
With Nagelsmann signing a new contract I think I’d give him another season . Potter , Southgate and De Zerbi make me want to stop watching football
He also qualified Malaga for the Champions League and went to the QF that season. Malaga were already in turmoil behind the scene.
We have goal difference in overdraft 6 games to the end of the season
Posts like this really crack me up when we're getting humiliated on a bi-weekly basis under Hag, virtually all season.
That Premier League rule only allowing us to hire one of those 3 managers is so unfair.
I firmly believe if our forwards knew how to score, early on in the season, then we would be in a much better position than we are in now. I could be wrong but I think we created plenty of chances in those games only for our front players to squander everything. I admit he is not helping himself by the style of play implemented (the hit and hope to find a player passes by Bruno and Casemiro) but with proper structure & recruitment, less injuries and less off field issues, I think he can get better out of this team. So voted yes.
Keep forgetting we are in a negative GD too. How on Earth can he be given more time next season?
You're not incorrect but it's an oversimplification of how culture in any club (or any workplace/business) works
Standards are passed on like a virus, every player who comes into that dressing room can be infected by that virus and the 'outbreak' can be traced back to the players downing tools on Moyes and crying about chips in the canteen etc.
Garnacho was fresh to the dressing room in the past couple of years but already he's doing stupid shit on social media (to the manager who has done nothing but support and nurture him). You have good eggs with great attitude like Mainoo but who's to say they won't be influenced in the end in a negative way. Rashford once seemed like he had an amazing attitude but look at him now.
That's only looking at the playing staff, there are plenty of staff around the club who have been there years who may be contributing to and sustaining the negative culture. You can certainly say that of the owners.
I see it my workplace all the time - you bring in a bunch of fresh grads and some of them are amazing, fantastic attitude etc. but over time they pick up bad habits and eventually become the problem themselves and pass it on to the next generation.
There is a way through it but it requires constant application, and throwing the manager to the wolves every two/three seasons doesn't help in the slightest - especially when they've tried to eradicate the low standards and culture.
And negative expected goals, so it's not even a case of bad luck.
Indeed! Been saying for ages, you cannot just constantly face the pressure and shots we are facing every bloody game and expect a different outcome. For the umpteenth time of saying it too, I'm fed up of being outplayed by every side we play. Genuinely haven't a clue what is gonna happen on Sunday.
Yeah that squad Moyes inherited had a terrible culture that wasn't at all conducive to winning or being successful.
If what you say were actually true, not only would we have to jettison the entire squad in one window before Pre-Season starts but also the entire non-playing staff also. Just in case the girls in the laundry room infect the 24 brand new players we will need to sign within 4 weeks with their 'virus'.
Jesus wept.
There are just too many assumptions in this post/reasoning to be honest. And I’m not saying said reasoning is being pulled out of thin air, yet still too many assumptions and leaps.
We can’t just discount everything that counters/goes against what you’re saying - to justify keeping an horribly underperforming manager to send a message to the squad.
The manager isn’t being “thrown to the wolves” by the way. Ten Hag being sacked is long past being explainable and justifiable.
This has to be the most damning stat in relation to his ability to take this squad forward.
So you want a clean sweep across the tea ladies, the canteen staff, the security guards, the kit man, the maintenance men and the ground staff?
not sure what other “staff” you are referring to here as ETH brought his own coaches.
I do agree with sacking the tea ladies, for the past decade they quite obviously substituted tea for verveine.
Extremely shortsighted. Winning domestic cup here and there will do nothing to increase your chances of challenging for the league or CL any time soon. You'd keep a manager who has failed by every metric because he won a one off match of football.
Even if what you say is true, Ten Hag doesn't have the charisma / influence to turn the culture around. He's only marginally better than a guy like Rangnick with his people skills. If he stays in charge and we start with poor form, I predict a very quick descent to the Ole / Ralf season.
The only way it can possibly work is we make some banger signings in the summer and start all guns blazing. Winning and having players enjoy themselves on the pitch is the easiest way to build team cohesion. I just don't see that happening with this guy and his negative xG / negative GD.
You might be on to something there but more likely they have been including locatives, only logic to explain the amount of shite they put on the pitch every week
It’s funny because Garnacho has always been active on social media/liking posts, trolling other fanbases (barca), supporting a campaign for him to get the #7 etc etc. Not even going to touch on the amount of feckery his brother gets involved in on Twitter. It’s just the times, and players/their relatives being young and more accessible (at least via that medium). It happens at other clubs too. They tend to clean-up after a talking to.
It isn’t some cordyceps like virus that has been pollinated in the dressing room for feck’s sake. Certainly not “keep a bad manager in otherwise” scaremongering material
It isn’t some cordyceps like virus that has been pollinated in the dressing room for feck’s sake. Certainly not “keep a bad manager in otherwise” scaremongering material
Great post and to add to this, I dont think there is an obvious upgrade available
Horrible post, and there are a lot of possible upgrades