Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

JPRouve · Apr 22, 2024

berbasloth4 said:
In a fantasy universe we have hired Sir Alex, pep or Johan cruyff. Two years later rashford is running like he is pulling an anchor. Hojlund is getting little service. Players aren’t doing extra work. Players aren’t trying to win a 40/60 - results are shit. Do we sack them? Do we let players countine being arsehole??

First I need to know if you are talking about the accomplished versions of these managers, if yes then we need to keep in mind that United have done large squad overhauls for nearly all managers with Moyes being the exceptions due to his own way of doing things. So in United's world no player is actually safe and all managers have been given a lot of money to build their "own" team and there is no scenario where these managers wouldn't be given even more power.

Also one of the issue which is kind of trivialized by the framing of your questions is that Sir Alex, Guardiola and Cruyff are/were infinitely better managers than anything we have had since 2013. It's like comparing prime Ronaldo with a washed up Jermaine Defoe.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Beachryan said:
Firstly, I think two things: 1 ETH is already gone and knows it and 2 part of a manager's job is instilling the menatlity to win matches. So I'm finally at peace with his inevitable sacking. But for all this criticism, I'm not sure what he did wrong yesterday.

Plays AWB on the left because we literally have no left-backs, and because Dalot's delivery from the right and overlapping ability is crucial to the strategy. And we score from that.
Subs off Garnacho because he's in his first season of senior football, hadn't show much in a good few minutes and bringing on Antony should be absolutely fine from a 3-0 lead. In fact, should be a good idea.
Subs off Mainoo because he's a child, and cannot play 90, as has been shown in every match. Brings on literally the only other fit midfielder.
Keeps one sub in case of injury.

I look at the XI available players and don't see how the world's greatest coach builds a good team with that. McTominay cannot midfield. AWB is a capable one-on-one defender, but I'm not sure he's actually a footballer. Eriksen can't run. Maguire and Casemiro can't step up. Look at the bench ffs.

The squad is utterly broken at the moment. The same fans blaming that on ETH for pushing players back in too hard too quickly from injury are also demanding he win every week to save his job. I just end up feeling bad for him. I think he's a good coach, and will show that again somewhere else, but this situation is too much for him to manage.

Garnacho is in his second season of senior football.

The worlds greatest coach probably would have managed a win vs a mid-table Championship side even with the players available.

Agreed on McTominay, which raises the question as to why Ten Hag has insisted on playing him there for large parts of the season.

Yep the job is just too big for him.

pauldyson1uk · Apr 22, 2024

He has to go , to come out and say that Sunday was not an embarrassment has no right to be United manager.
Just scrapping past. Championship team due to VAR, does not matter VAR was correct, this totally unacceptable.

berbasloth4 · Apr 22, 2024

E-mal said:
This whole idea that because we want a manager sacked means we want to keep these players is backside analysis.
We can want this incompetent manager to be sacked and still want these players gone.
Players that you want out are the same players ETH has made the cornerstone of his team and the players you want gone are the ones keeping him in a job, so please make your analysis make sense

I’m pointing out that It continues to always be the managers fault. The common denominator under every manager we’ve had since sir Alex is the players. Keano called it under ole saying players threw Jose under the bus were going to do it to ole and they are doing It again for ETH

BenitoSTARR · Apr 22, 2024

stevoc said:
If.

To be fair I haven't claimed the subs were the reason were were embarrassed yesterday.

But the if is important here. Given the number of injured players we have and the fact they are teenagers.

The implication behind you previous post was that they could have played more as you said they would have had 6 dead rubbers where they could have time off. I’m just disagreeing that that was definitely the case.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

berbasloth4 said:
I’m pointing out that It continues to always be the managers fault. The common denominator under every manager we’ve had since sir Alex is the players. Keano called it under ole saying players threw Jose under the bus were going to do it to ole and they are doing It again for ETH

It's like groundhog day.

Which players?

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

BenitoSTARR said:
But the if is important here. Given the number of injured players we have and the fact they are teenagers.

The implication behind you previous post was that they could have played more as you said they would have had 6 dead rubbers where they could have time off. I’m just disagreeing that that was definitely the case.

Yes they could have.

And yes they could have been injured if they stayed on. And yes people probably would have moaned. But any player that plays 90 minutes can get injured, that's life.

Do you know for a fact that Erik took them off as he was worried about them getting injured?

Borys · Apr 22, 2024

stevoc said:
Garnacho is in his second season of senior football.

The worlds greatest coach probably would have managed a win vs a mid-table Championship side even with the players available.

Agreed on McTominay, which raises the question as to why Ten Hag has insisted on playing him there for large parts of the season.

Yep the job is just too big for him.

McTominay cannot midfield, that's why he's deployed in attacking position by Ten Hag.
You can clearly see ETH design in that team. McTominay bombing forward, Bruno dropping deeper - this is all happening this season.

I don't mind McTominay in attacking position, he is just as likely to score a goal as Hojlund. The problem is neither him / Bruno are any good at A) progressing the ball and B) defending, so that is a really shit setup by the manager.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Borys said:
McTominay cannot midfield, that's why he's deployed in attacking position by Ten Hag.
You can clearly see ETH design in that team. McTominay bombing forward, Bruno dropping deeper - this is all happening this season.

I don't mind McTominay in attacking position, he is just as likely to score a goal as Hojlund. The problem is neither him / Bruno are any good at A) progressing the ball and B) defending, so that is a really shit setup by the manager.

Agreed.

And yeah shit setup by Ten Hag and it's been shit all season.

And not one person on here seems to be able to offer up one plausible reason as to why he has persisted with a set-up that clearly isn't working, all season.

King7Eric · Apr 22, 2024

berbasloth4 said:
I’m pointing out that It continues to always be the managers fault. The common denominator under every manager we’ve had since sir Alex is the players. Keano called it under ole saying players threw Jose under the bus were going to do it to ole and they are doing It again for ETH

This is an oft repeated lazy argument. How many players from Jose's last season are still at the club? Dalot, Lindelof, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and McTominay.

Martial is a non-entity and Shaw has barely played this season so wouldn't have been around the dressing room all that much. Dalot has been one of the better players. So from that list you have Rashford, McTominay and Lindelof throwing the manager under the bus? Even if we believe this it's 3 players out of a squad of 25.

I don't dispute for some players ( Rashford, Di Maria, Pogba maybe) attitude has been an issue. But for the majority of our squads over the last decade, the issue has been quality. Most of the players simply haven't been good enough at the time they were here to be able to win us titles. Most of the managers haven't been good enough either. There's no deep conspiracy by the players.

Parma Dewol · Apr 22, 2024

As bad as our performances have gotten, I would dearly love to see ETH win the FA Cup. Huge ask against the 115, but he has been served such a poor hand this season, it would be a minor miracle and welcome relief to land some silverware. Whether or not that will save him, well, I doubt it, but somehow I don't detest the manager as much as others do. He's gotten plenty wrong, but I like that he's tried (albeit failed) to instill a sense of discipline at our treacherous club. :nervous:

Insanity · Apr 22, 2024

Beachryan said:
Firstly, I think two things: 1 ETH is already gone and knows it and 2 part of a manager's job is instilling the menatlity to win matches. So I'm finally at peace with his inevitable sacking. But for all this criticism, I'm not sure what he did wrong yesterday.

Plays AWB on the left because we literally have no left-backs, and because Dalot's delivery from the right and overlapping ability is crucial to the strategy. And we score from that.
Subs off Garnacho because he's in his first season of senior football, hadn't show much in a good few minutes and bringing on Antony should be absolutely fine from a 3-0 lead. In fact, should be a good idea.
Subs off Mainoo because he's a child, and cannot play 90, as has been shown in every match. Brings on literally the only other fit midfielder.
Keeps one sub in case of injury.

I look at the XI available players and don't see how the world's greatest coach builds a good team with that. McTominay cannot midfield. AWB is a capable one-on-one defender, but I'm not sure he's actually a footballer. Eriksen can't run. Maguire and Casemiro can't step up. Look at the bench ffs.

The squad is utterly broken at the moment. The same fans blaming that on ETH for pushing players back in too hard too quickly from injury are also demanding he win every week to save his job. I just end up feeling bad for him. I think he's a good coach, and will show that again somewhere else, but this situation is too much for him to manage.

If you buy or give contract to those players then you have to play a system that suits them. Sir Alex during his last few years picked his two from Carrick, Scholes and Giggs, neither of whom had the legs, but he played to their strengths and won us titles. We are not even asking this clown to win us titles. The bar is so low for him that people would be happy with some decent football or us not folding like a pack of cards against a mid-table championship in a Wembley semi-final. He is being asked the bare minimum.

The injury excuse is pathetic too. I can't remember a season in the last few Fergie years when we didn't have Carrick playing CB for at least a few games in a season. But that was never used an excuse by us. Now the standards have fallen so far and the cult of manager has become so strong that we have to excuse everything for these bozo managers, who we as fans owe nothing.

He is not living in poverty: he has 4 central defenders who cost a combined 210m pounds. If the first choice goes down, he gets to replace him with another International defender. And again, we are not asking him to win titles with that defense, the ask is to play some decent football and not fold like clowns.

GK - Onana, Bayinder
Defense - Martinez, Malacia
Midfield - Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrabat, Mount, Mainoo
Attack - Antony, Hojlund, Garnacho

These are all the players he bought or introduced. Except the defenders he bought and Mount, rest have played or have been available for a lot of time this season. Still we don't have a style of play or I should say play suicidal football completely unsuited to English football, where there are gimmes. You have to fight for victory in each and every game. You can leave spaces in behind for fast and physical players to exploit each game and expect that they won't hurt you.

Beachryan · Apr 22, 2024

Insanity said:
If you buy or give contract to those players then you have to play a system that suits them. Sir Alex during his last few years picked his two from Carrick, Scholes and Giggs, neither of whom had the legs, but he played to their strengths and won us titles. We are not even asking this clown to win us titles. The bar is so low for him that people would be happy with some decent football or us not folding like a pack of cards against a mid-table championship in a Wembley semi-final. He is being asked the bare minimum.

The injury excuse is pathetic too. I can't remember a season in the last few Fergie years when we didn't have Carrick playing CB for at least a few games in a season. But that was never used an excuse by us. Now the standards have fallen so far and the cult of manager has become so strong that we have to excuse everything for these bozo managers, who we as fans owe nothing.

He is not living in poverty: he has 4 central defenders who cost a combined 210m pounds. If the first choice goes down, he gets to replace him with another International defender. And again, we are not asking him to win titles with that defense, the ask is to play some decent football and not fold like clowns.

GK - Onana, Bayinder
Defense - Martinez, Malacia
Midfield - Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrabat, Mount, Mainoo
Attack - Antony, Hojlund, Garnacho

These are all the players he bought or introduced. Except the defenders he bought and Mount, rest have played or have been available for a lot of time this season. Still we don't have a style of play or I should say play suicidal football completely unsuited to English football, where there are gimmes. You have to fight for victory in each and every game. You can leave spaces in behind for fast and physical players to exploit each game and expect that they won't hurt you.

Listen, I agree that he's likely gone, but statements like 'except the defenders and Mount...' - that's half his outfield signings that haven't been available this year. (I maintain Eriksen was a free designed for 10 minute cameos, and Amrabat is a desperate loan cause we're skint). It's not nothing. We once again went into a match basically fielding Ole's team, with a few youth graduates and a new keeper. And no bench.

Abhinav · Apr 22, 2024

Sarni said:
I think ten Hag is great at deflecting blame and I’m sure behind the scenes they will have had many conversations to determine why results have not been the best (though still decent as we sit 6th in the league and have just got to a cup final, something that surely is going to work in his favor).

He will have given them reasons which are going to primarily focus on inadequate player personnel, and they will now work to address that to ensure he has the right players to executive his vision. That will take time, they will need to bring correct players in but they will let it develop.

Usually, whenever there is a big executive overhaul, the senior operating managers are at risk (in this case EtH), irrespective of their past performance.
Even if EtH would have got us to finish in the top 4, he would be under the scanner (similar situation to Tuchel at Chelsea).

In this case, with EtH severely underperforming, I would find it absolutely bonkers if the new executive structure decide to retain EtH after witnessing what they have over the past few months.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Parma Dewol said:
As bad as our performances have gotten, I would dearly love to see ETH win the FA Cup. Huge ask against the 115, but he has been served such a poor hand this season, it would be a minor miracle and welcome relief to land some silverware. Whether or not that will save him, well, I doubt it, but somehow I don't detest the manager as much as others do. He's gotten plenty wrong, but I like that he's tried (albeit failed) to instill a sense of discipline at our treacherous club.

Do people really detest him though?

Theres some personal criticism/abuse but not much. Previous managers have had it much worse on that front.

JPRouve · Apr 22, 2024

Beachryan said:
Firstly, I think two things: 1 ETH is already gone and knows it and 2 part of a manager's job is instilling the menatlity to win matches. So I'm finally at peace with his inevitable sacking. But for all this criticism, I'm not sure what he did wrong yesterday.

Plays AWB on the left because we literally have no left-backs, and because Dalot's delivery from the right and overlapping ability is crucial to the strategy. And we score from that.
Subs off Garnacho because he's in his first season of senior football, hadn't show much in a good few minutes and bringing on Antony should be absolutely fine from a 3-0 lead. In fact, should be a good idea.
Subs off Mainoo because he's a child, and cannot play 90, as has been shown in every match. Brings on literally the only other fit midfielder.
Keeps one sub in case of injury.

I look at the XI available players and don't see how the world's greatest coach builds a good team with that. McTominay cannot midfield. AWB is a capable one-on-one defender, but I'm not sure he's actually a footballer. Eriksen can't run. Maguire and Casemiro can't step up. Look at the bench ffs.

The squad is utterly broken at the moment. The same fans blaming that on ETH for pushing players back in too hard too quickly from injury are also demanding he win every week to save his job. I just end up feeling bad for him. I think he's a good coach, and will show that again somewhere else, but this situation is too much for him to manage.

First I want to make it clear that what is going to follow isn't meant condescendingly. What you just wrote is true if we are talking about a video game like Football Manager or if the manager was appointed last week because in that case the manager has limited tools to impact yesterday's game and has little knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of his players. Or how players interact with each others on the field from a tactical and technical standpoint. But ETH has been coaching all of these players for nearly a year at the minimum and nearly two years or far more for most.

So unless we are making the point that our players are genuinely bottom half of the Championship level. The manager has had nearly two seasons to know nearly all the players and build something that is supposed to be comfortable against Coventry and dominate them without breaking a sweat with our benchwarmers and kids. But in spite of a good score line of 3-0, we were uninspired during our good periods and dreadful during our bad ones.

We need to be serious here, the likes of McTominay AWB, Eriksen, Maguire or Casemiro are not good enough to compete against elite teams based on talent and form but they are significantly better than anything Coventry has to offer which is why in spite of our ridiculous tactical setups, injuries and some bad form United is still somehow in the top third of the Premier League which is the equivalent of a full league above Coventry.

Insanity · Apr 22, 2024

Beachryan said:
Listen, I agree that he's likely gone, but statements like 'except the defenders and Mount...' - that's half his outfield signings that haven't been available this year. (I maintain Eriksen was a free designed for 10 minute cameos, and Amrabat is a desperate loan cause we're skint). It's not nothing. We once again went into a match basically fielding Ole's team, with a few youth graduates and a new keeper. And no bench.

Amrabat wasn't a desperate loan, the plan was to sell McTom and buy him. Now fortuitously for him McTom has bailed him out multiple times this season with his goals, while Amrabat has been warming the bench.

Mount has been unavailable but he has had the rest of the midfield including "My captain always plays", why is he not able to play any kind of decent football with those guys? Or was Mount supposed to be the most important cog in the wheel?

Malacia is utter pants.

Martinez is the only important player who we can agree has missed the whole season. However, if everything about our football is based on just one guy, who actually was a part of our biggest defeats last season, then ETH is living in a fool's paradise.

Lastwolf · Apr 22, 2024

King7Eric said:
This is an oft repeated lazy argument. How many players from Jose's last season are still at the club? Dalot, Lindelof, Shaw, Martial, Rashford and McTominay.

Martial is a non-entity and Shaw has barely played this season so wouldn't have been around the dressing room all that much. Dalot has been one of the better players. So from that list you have Rashford, McTominay and Lindelof throwing the manager under the bus? Even if we believe this it's 3 players out of a squad of 25.

I don't dispute for some players ( Rashford, Di Maria, Pogba maybe) attitude has been an issue. But for the majority of our squads over the last decade, the issue has been quality. Most of the players simply haven't been good enough at the time they were here to be able to win us titles. Most of the managers haven't been good enough either. There's no deep conspiracy by the players.

If you go further, to the premise of since Sir Alex, techincally it's only Evans and he had a small 9 year break in the middle, so can't blame him either. Rashford and Mctominay were in the u18's so they are a symptom not a cause.

I think personally it's a overall vibe thing, we requires a certain type of individuals to setup and inspire, it's more that we've lost those than gain some snake in the grass bad actors. When they aren't feeling it and the heads go down these guys quit, the 7-0 is a prime example. You need someone to grab the game by the balls and say no not happening today, even if it's to shut the game down and lose 3-0 instead. I'm not sure who that is in our current squad, I'm not sure we have one.

Players might be an issue, but our failures at the minute are also tactical, I'm sorry but conceding >20 shots every other game, that's not happening by accident. If you gave a footballing dinosaur like big Sam this team, the football would be terrible but we'd be compact. Ten Hagg is rolling the same dice again and again, we all know Scott McTominay doesn't work as a DM, keeps trying it.

Skills · Apr 22, 2024

stevoc said:
It's like groundhog day.

Which players?

Basically what we need is a club without players.

What these guys want to watch is a manager turning up every week to Old Trafford, having a walk around, taking a shit in the middle of the center circle and then they can go there merry ways.

Let's not bother with this whole football thing as it's beyond most of our fanbase anyway.

Hughie77 · Apr 22, 2024

I think he's gone and so dies he.. look at the changes in the backroom staff, surely there's a new manager as well.
I think the players know ETH knows he's gone, some have stopped playing for him imo..

I've changed my vote I did think he would get another season I don't think so now.

MRD · Apr 22, 2024

For me he is finished, after yesterday's fiasco.

soapythecat · Apr 22, 2024

Ayush_reddevil said:
This game was our 45th game in all competitions this season

Wins - 21
Draws- 7
Losses - 17
Goals - 76
Goals against - 74

If we remove the wins against Newport & Wigan then we are close to even on wins & losses this season and have a negative goal difference. These are just basic numbers without even going into deeper stats which are absolutely horror.

Yeah but we are the only team who's had injuries, yeah?

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Skills said:
Basically what we need is a club without players.

What these guys want to watch is a manager turning up every week to Old Trafford, having a walk around, taking a shit in the middle of the center circle and then they can go there merry ways.

Let's not bother with this whole football thing as it's beyond most of our fanbase anyway.

I genuinely think most of them are taking the piss. I keep asking people who post similar the same question and not many answer, even less with anything that makes sense.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Hughie77 said:
I think he's gone and so dies he.. look at the changes in the backroom staff, surely there's a new manager as well.
I think the players know ETH knows he's gone, some have stopped playing for him imo..

I've changed my vote I did think he would get another season I don't think so now.

Here's the thing people may have overlooked, even if we'd have had a relatively successful season. ie qualified for the CL, had a decent run in the CL and maybe a cup run like we've had. There's every chance that Ratcliff, Ineos and the new sporting structure would have still wanted to change manager anyway. Ten Hag isn't their man, they didn't hire him and new owners quite often want to bring their own manager in.

Beachryan · Apr 22, 2024

JPRouve said:
First I want to make it clear that what is going to follow isn't meant condescendingly. What you just wrote is true if we are talking about a video game like Football Manager or if the manager was appointed last week because in that case the manager has limited tools to impact yesterday's game and has little knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of his players. Or how players interact with each others on the field from a tactical and technical standpoint. But ETH has been coaching all of these players for nearly a year at the minimum and nearly two years or far more for most.

So unless we are making the point that our players are genuinely bottom half of the Championship level. The manager has had nearly two seasons to know nearly all the players and build something that is supposed to be comfortable against Coventry and dominate them without breaking a sweat with our benchwarmers and kids. But in spite of a good score line of 3-0, we were uninspired during our good periods and dreadful during our bad ones.

We need to be serious here, the likes of McTominay AWB, Eriksen, Maguire or Casemiro are not good enough to compete against elite teams based on talent and form but they are significantly better than anything Coventry has to offer which is why in spite of our ridiculous tactical setups, injuries and some bad form United is still somehow in the top third of the Premier League which is the equivalent of a full league above Coventry.

I honestly don't know. Would Eriksen boss the championship? I doubt it, he can barely move. Would AWB look good? He can't pass, dribble or understand defending in a line. Maguire would be fine, and was fine. I'm not sure how Case would do as a CB, particularly against fast, aggressive strikers. I acutally think McTominay is just about high-Championship level as a defensive midfielder.

I do agree that whatever ETH is trying to do isn't working with these players. And he'll rightfully lose his job because of that. But I also think a LOT of these players are demonstrably the problem. As I've posted previously, ETH has rid the squads of over 23 players that have played in the first team. In just two seasons. He has had plenty of money spent, but whether himself or the recruitment team, they haven't actually bought enough bodies to fill the squad out. And, we're STILL reliant on Ole ball because we're still fielding a majority of Ole's players.

I'll flip it over, given this exact squad, do you think a better coach could get a tune out of AWB? Get Eriksen to run? Speed up Maguire and Casemiro as a back 2? I have to hope a better man-manager could get Rashford to resemble a footballer, I'll give you that.

LawCharltonBest · Apr 22, 2024

Yesterday highlighted how far away we are. I wouldn't be surprised if we finish 10th or lower next season if changes aren't in place quicker than it seems they will be.

RedRover · Apr 22, 2024

Dan_F said:
He put on Danish and Brazilian international’s against a fecking Championship team, who were two of the most experienced players on our bench.

There wasn’t some kind of massive tactical shift from Coventry. They attacked a bit more. You don’t need a change for that, the players need to take some responsibility. The likes of Keane talk about it all the time, funnily enough proper leaders.

He made the changes and he takes the consequences.

Mainoo was breaking up play in midfield. Eriksen doesn't do that and doesn't have the legs, so the midfield became wide open and that allowed Coventry to open up. The game reverted to what we've seen in recent weeks - unable to lay a glove on opposition midfielders who have acres of space and just drive on at the back 4.

Anthony coming on wasn't the issue for me - it was leaving Rashford on over Garnacho who works a lot harder without the ball.

Tactical shift from the opposition or not, the game changed following his substitutions and he didn't react or do anything about it. They made changes that impacted the game positively for them. Ten Hag didn't do that so he wears it.

There's only a handful of players in this squad I'd personally keep on, but the manager needs to do better.

Solius · Apr 22, 2024

I feel like if you're 3 - 0 up against Coventry you should be able to hold that lead even without any managerial instructions, so yesterday is not all on Ten Hag.

However it feels like he's coached this type of chaos into them and ultimately he's responsible. He has to go. I think they'll keep him until the end of the season but they should get rid regardless of outcome in the final imo. The underlying concerns about this team don't change just because we might win that game, and keeping him on just because of that would severely dent my belief in the new ownership.

Bastian · Apr 22, 2024

mu4c_20le said:
Amazon have been banging on the door for years but we've always said no. If we miss out on CL money then ffp might force the glazers to reconsider.

Another silver lining

Chumpsbechumps · Apr 22, 2024

BenitoSTARR said:
But the if is important here. Given the number of injured players we have and the fact they are teenagers.

The implication behind you previous post was that they could have played more as you said they would have had 6 dead rubbers where they could have time off. I’m just disagreeing that that was definitely the case.

I’d love to be able to see actual private data about fitness and injuries to see what the clubs objective reasoning is for it. I don’t believe it’s anything ETH is doing. Lots of clubs are suffering with injury issues, but ours has been worse probably because of the punishing schedule last season along with the WC.

I see this season in the same way a team , that’s won a league , can fall apart even with the same manager. I feel like it’s happened for us under Jose and Ole. You can’t coach good one season and then be sh*t another season.

He takes over and Ronaldo immediately starts causing sh*t. Then the club is up for sale barely half a year into his contract and his very future is in doubt (new owners usually want their own man). But the club is in limbo for 12 months so nobody really knows what’s happening.

Greenwood and Anthony high profile dramas. Rashford , our best attacking player last year is having some sort of meltdown. Casemiro looks finished , not even arsed trying to score a penalty against Coventry. Relentless injuries. All this in probably the most high profile job where you are only ever 2 games away from hysterical over reactions. Have I missed anything ?

Trying to implement any sort of discipline , culture and even belief in that environment (with so much up in the air) would be difficult for anybody. If I was to try and look at this in a broad context I think that pretty much everything has gone against ETH but it feels like he’s got too much baggage now to continue. I still feel he’s been just managing a sh*tshow of a club at it’s absolute worst , but he’s gonna pay the price for being here at the worst time possible.

JPRouve · Apr 22, 2024

Beachryan said:
I honestly don't know. Would Eriksen boss the championship? I doubt it, he can barely move. Would AWB look good? He can't pass, dribble or understand defending in a line. Maguire would be fine, and was fine. I'm not sure how Case would do as a CB, particularly against fast, aggressive strikers. I acutally think McTominay is just about high-Championship level as a defensive midfielder.

I do agree that whatever ETH is trying to do isn't working with these players. And he'll rightfully lose his job because of that. But I also think a LOT of these players are demonstrably the problem. As I've posted previously, ETH has rid the squads of over 23 players that have played in the first team. In just two seasons. He has had plenty of money spent, but whether himself or the recruitment team, they haven't actually bought enough bodies to fill the squad out. And, we're STILL reliant on Ole ball because we're still fielding a majority of Ole's players.

I'll flip it over, given this exact squad, do you think a better coach could get a tune out of AWB? Get Eriksen to run? Speed up Maguire and Casemiro as a back 2? I have to hope a better man-manager could get Rashford to resemble a footballer, I'll give you that.

If I flip it over, I have Coventry. A team that is made of worse players than United in every single positions but reached the FA Cup semi finals and lost on penalties. The point I'm trying to make is that unless you think that Coventry has comparable or better players than United and also that Coventry over the course of a season would be in the top half of the PL with ETH, then it's very difficult to even start to suggest that the manager had no way to organize his team in a way to not look useless against Coventry or the vast majority of teams we play against.

Do you think that if you give ETH all Coventry players he gets a draw against this United?

golden_blunder · Apr 22, 2024

I think we’d struggle in the championship with the squad playing like this

quadrant · Apr 22, 2024

Honestly I feel for the guy. The club is so messed up that I don't think any manager (other than perhaps Pep and Klopp) could have succeeded. I still think the guy is a good coach, but it needs more than a good coach to succeed with this group. The culture at the club is awful, recruitment is shite and the mentality of this group is brittle. He failed, but he failed at an impossible job. The only question is how quickly it went wrong.

However, it feels like the bubble's popped now, I just don't see a way back for him. Once your authority is eroded, getting it back is near impossible. Remember when we got outrun by Brentford and he had all the squad run 13k, and went with them? Back then I think he gained the grudging respect of the squad for that. Now that trick wouldn't work, it would just be another round of anonymous briefing. You have a limited amount of credit, and I think it's all gone.

The new senior management team has to reset the club culture, and unfortunately for ETH that's easier to do when you have a new manager. FA Cup final is at the end of May. I doubt he'll still be in post by 1st June.

Dan_F · Apr 22, 2024

RedRover said:
He made the changes and he takes the consequences.

Mainoo was breaking up play in midfield. Eriksen doesn't do that and doesn't have the legs, so the midfield became wide open and that allowed Coventry to open up. The game reverted to what we've seen in recent weeks - unable to lay a glove on opposition midfielders who have acres of space and just drive on at the back 4.

Anthony coming on wasn't the issue for me - it was leaving Rashford on over Garnacho who works a lot harder without the ball.

Tactical shift from the opposition or not, the game changed following his substitutions and he didn't react or do anything about it. They made changes that impacted the game positively for them. Ten Hag didn't do that so he wears it.

There's only a handful of players in this squad I'd personally keep on, but the manager needs to do better.

If we’re relying on the manager having to give specific tactical instructions to the players to defend a 3 goal lead against championship opposition, it tells you exactly what the problems are with this team. It’s not like Coventry had some kind of genius tactical shift that required specific intervention. They attacked and took more risks. You’d trust a top team to be able to figure that out, I can’t see Pep telling his players they need to sit deeper and keep hold of the ball against a championship team at 3-0. They know what to do.

Beachryan · Apr 22, 2024

JPRouve said:
If I flip it over, I have Coventry. A team that is made of worse players than United in every single positions but reached the FA Cup semi finals and lost on penalties. The point I'm trying to make is that unless you think that Coventry has comparable or better players than United and also that Coventry over the course of a season would be in the top half of the PL with ETH, then it's very difficult to even start to suggest that the manager had no way to organize his team in a way to not look useless against Coventry or the vast majority of teams we play against.

Do you think that if you give ETH all Coventry players he gets a draw against this United?

I think if you gave ETH a consistent, fit, young and energetic XI then he'd produce vastly better football than he currently is. I don't know enough about Coventry to comment, but going back many years, the United midfield has been overrun by much lower 'standard' teams because they actually have 3 midfielders that play the right positions, are the right age and run a lot. Honestly that's been happening for the better part of 2 decades now.

ayushreddevil9 · Apr 22, 2024

golden_blunder said:
I think we’d struggle in the championship with the squad playing like this

You think? This squad for a fact will be competing for playoffs in the championship

ayushreddevil9 · Apr 22, 2024

I don't think these idiotic incompetent players will be moved on so I am hoping that he gets us a trophy before getting the sack.

troylocker · Apr 22, 2024

This season is the worst we've been since the early eighties.
Us being 7th in the league is because of pure luck and a good shotstopper.

16th in the league for expected points. Only Wolves, Sheffield United, Burnley and Luton worse.
16th in the league for expected goald conceded. Only West Ham, Sheffield United, Burnley and Luton worse.
13th in the league for expecte goals scored. Only West Ham, Wolves, Forrest, Palace, Sheffield United, Burnley and Luton worse.

We've had maybe two or three good performances this season. We are looking more clueless every time we enter the pitch.
There is no winning culture, there is no collective identity, there is no visible plan, we're getting physically bullied, man management on and off the pitch is nonexistent and our players are getting worse in every aspect of the game for every week this guy is at the wheel.
Has to go! At the end of the season at the latest.

stevoc · Apr 22, 2024

Dan_F said:
If we’re relying on the manager having to give specific tactical instructions to the players to defend a 3 goal lead against championship opposition, it tells you exactly what the problems are with this team. It’s not like Coventry had some kind of genius tactical shift that required specific intervention. They attacked and took more risks. You’d trust a top team to be able to figure that out, I can’t see Pep telling his players they need to sit deeper and keep hold of the ball against a championship team at 3-0. They know what to do.

They did but the way this team is setup its unable to stop opposition attacks or our goal being peppered with 20 shots a game regardless of the opposition. We've seen it all season and the manager seems OK with playing this way.

adkb · Apr 22, 2024

Coventry messed up big time. They did not do their homework at all. They should have known that if they had only pressed our players a bit the whole team would have collapsed. All they had to do was man mark our player and they would have comfortably won the game. They did not and they still almost nicked it. Grim times.

Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

Would you allow ETH to manage the cup final before parting ways?

Yes

No, get an interim now

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