A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Sarni]

The job he’s done in England so far has been spectacular.

It makes no sense though to use his every victory to have a dig at Ole or at the board for appointing Ole which from what I have seen is what is going to happen for the considerable future. We don’t even know if he was an option in the first place and Ole won his position fair and square by performing above expectations for the first four months here. Support the manager that we have instead of lusting over a manager who we haven’t got.

Besides United job is a different animal to Spurs and Southampton. If United had the same season next year that Spurs are having this year half of this forum would be calling for the board to fire Poch and get Nuno or Allegri anyway.

 

[The Nani]

The job he’s done in England so far has been spectacular.

It makes no sense though to use his every victory to have a dig at Ole or at the board for appointing Ole which from what I have seen is what is going to happen for the considerable future. We don’t even know if he was an option in the first place and Ole won his position fair and square by performing above expectations for the first four months here. Support the manager that we have instead of lusting over a manager who we haven’t got.

Besides United job is a different animal to Spurs and Southampton. If United had the same season next year that Spurs are having this year half of this forum would be calling for the board to fire Poch and get Nuno or Allegri anyway.

Agreed. I always had Pochettino as my first choice after Jose was sacked, but who knows whether he was an option. And who could've predicted Ole would come in and do the job he's done? I was uneasy about how quickly we made him permanent manager like many others. But either way, we have to support the manager.

Besides, we really fecked up getting Pochettino when we rushed into signing Mourinho straight off a complete meltdown season at Chelsea in 2016. That was the same summer Paul Mitchell resigned from the DoF position at Spurs due to Levy tightening the purse strings. Poch was extremely unhappy about it as he had worked with Mitchell at Saints and Mitchell followed him to Spurs. He was very vocal about it as well as other issues. If we'd had an ounce of common sense, we would've hired Paul Mitchell straight away, and it's very likely Poch would've followed him.

Instead we hired that utter cretin of a man, and I'm convinced in doing so we missed out on Paul Mitchell as well as Jose was absolutely against hiring a DoF.

This is what Frenkie de Jong had to say recently. Apparently he came close to signing for Spurs last summer...

"I considered their offer long and hard. I see Tottenham as a very stable club, and they are only getting better," he told FourFourTwo.

"They give young players a chance and I see Mauricio Pochettino as a manager who really improves young players. I like the kind of football they are playing. I think it would have suited my game."

But De Jong says he eventually decided against a move to Tottenham out of loyalty to Ajax, believing he still owed the Dutch club a further season.

"The moment wasn't right," he added. "I wasn't finished at Ajax, as I hadn't yet played a full season in my own position. I was also injured in that period, so I was thinking, 'Not yet'. I felt I should stay for another year at Ajax, or perhaps longer."

How different might things have been if we'd hired Poch and set up a proper infrastructure instead of handing that thundercnut an undeserved contract.

 

[Sarni]

He wasn’t as highly regarded back in 2016 though. That would have been considered a much bigger risk back then as he did not have any decent European results to his name and I thought the way they dropped the title race to Leicester was poor as well.

On the other hand you could see from his development of both Tottenham and Southampton before that he knew what he was doing.

I still remember how outraged this forum was when he got hired to replace Adkins at Southampton originally.

 

[roonster09]

The job he’s done in England so far has been spectacular.

It makes no sense though to use his every victory to have a dig at Ole or at the board for appointing Ole which from what I have seen is what is going to happen for the considerable future. We don’t even know if he was an option in the first place and Ole won his position fair and square by performing above expectations for the first four months here. Support the manager that we have instead of lusting over a manager who we haven’t got.

Besides United job is a different animal to Spurs and Southampton. If United had the same season next year that Spurs are having this year half of this forum would be calling for the board to fire Poch and get Nuno or Allegri anyway.

Spot on.

 

[Ban]

With our every bad result this thread will be unbearable. Or will be in general.

 

[Sarni]

With our every bad result this thread will be unbearable. Or will be in general.

Yeah. We have a group of fans who will be anticipating every United defeat and every Spurs win in order to come back here to criticize Ole or praise Poch.

It’s not a very significant group but there are quite a few people on here that belong there.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I mean if Ole doesn't turn out to be a success, I'm pretty sure Poch will be our next manager.

 

[tenpoless]

The serious looks We gave made him nervous.

 

[The Nani]

He wasn’t as highly regarded back in 2016 though. That would have been considered a much bigger risk back then as he did not have any decent European results to his name and I thought the way they dropped the title race to Leicester was poor as well.

On the other hand you could see from his development of both Tottenham and Southampton before that he knew what he was doing.

I still remember how outraged this forum was when he got hired to replace Adkins at Southampton originally.

And yet we hired the biggest risk of them all.

But oh yes. Poor Nigel. Oh the outrage.

 

[roonster09]

With our every bad result this thread will be unbearable. Or will be in general.

Same with every Spurs win. I mean yeah Poch is very good manager but we have just appointed ole after such a good start and we have few who are hoping Poch will be our next manager asap.

 

[Suedesi]

Agreed. I always had Pochettino as my first choice after Jose was sacked, but who knows whether he was an option. And who could've predicted Ole would come in and do the job he's done? I was uneasy about how quickly we made him permanent manager like many others. But either way, we have to support the manager.

Besides, we really fecked up getting Pochettino when we rushed into signing Mourinho straight off a complete meltdown season at Chelsea in 2016. That was the same summer Paul Mitchell resigned from the DoF position at Spurs due to Levy tightening the purse strings. Poch was extremely unhappy about it as he had worked with Mitchell at Saints and Mitchell followed him to Spurs. He was very vocal about it as well as other issues. If we'd had an ounce of common sense, we would've hired Paul Mitchell straight away, and it's very likely Poch would've followed him.

Instead we hired that utter cretin of a man, and I'm convinced in doing so we missed out on Paul Mitchell as well as Jose was absolutely against hiring a DoF.

This is what Frenkie de Jong had to say recently. Apparently he came close to signing for Spurs last summer...



How different might things have been if we'd hired Poch and set up a proper infrastructure instead of handing that thundercnut an undeserved contract.

That's just sad to read. Hate that Portuguese cnut with a passion.

 

[Ban]

Same with every Spurs win. I mean yeah Poch is very good manager but we have just appointed ole after such a good start and we have few who are hoping Poch will be our next manager asap.

Yup, as it shows few posts above.

 

[Mcking]

Yeah. We have a group of fans who will be anticipating every United defeat and every Spurs win in order to come back here to criticize Ole or praise Poch.

It’s not a very significant group but there are quite a few people on here that belong there.

There are quite a few who belong on the other end of the spectrum though. Plenty.

 

[Sarni]

There are quite a few who belong on the other end of the spectrum though. Plenty.

Of course, and it makes sense to be fair for United supporters to root for Ole and against Pochettino since we are kind of competing against them.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Yeah. We have a group of fans who will be anticipating every United defeat and every Spurs win in order to come back here to criticize Ole or praise Poch.

It’s not a very significant group but there are quite a few people on here that belong there.

Spurs threads here are very strange in general. There are some who have taken up a fanatical hatred for Spurs/their manager and others who seem to have a strong affinity for one/both. Whether it's one being a reaction to the other, or just the type of weirdness the internet create, I don't know. Sometimes I feel like Spurs is one of our historically biggest rivals but only on the caf, other times you'd think they are everything we apparently desire to be.

 

[Anustart89]

Spurs have just been on a run where they got one point out of fifteen(!) in the league. Now they’ve won two games in a row, one of which might not even count for anything in a week, and everyone’s going crazy because we didn’t sign Poch.

 

[Saffron]

Spurs have just been on a run where they got one point out of fifteen(!) in the league. Now they’ve won two games in a row, one of which might not even count for anything in a week, and everyone’s going crazy because we didn’t sign Poch.

He could finish 6th and lose the return leg to City and it will still be hailed as a great season. Such is the power of the media narrative when every Spurs win is treated like a tactical masterclass while disastrous runs like getting 1 point in 15 are swept under the rug. Even though Poch himself is quick to make excuses when he loses, he doesn’t even have to. The stooges in the media do that for him.

And of course that narrative rubs off on discussions here and elsewhere.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Not really cause no matter how much you spend on a player, he becomes what he becomes. Pool finished 3rd last season and Klopp still managed to pull that off. It's not like his side was fully loaded like it is now. There's no way you are going to convince anyone that what he did wasn't more impressive than what Poch did.

Spurs have some great players here and there. The difference in price tags between the sides that played might be huge buy the difference in actual quality isn't.

I see. So in summary you're:

(a) Saying that it doesn't really matter how much a manager has to spend on transfer fees and wages (that's good news for Accrington Stanley when they next come up against Real Madrid).

(b) Giving Pochettino no credit for the fact that his much less expensive players are now comparable in quality to those in teams who've spent much more.

 

[GlastonSpur]

He's made a number of statements about investment this season - his presser was shutdown by a Levy goon when he tried to answer the question about Man Utd.

He's literally questioned the way the club is run.

Pochettino would've come here if we'd gone all out - I'm sure of that.

The backing we could've given him, and the platform is the stuff of his dreams, and we blew it, in my opinion.

….

What a load of old tosh.

Pochettino could have said anything that he wanted to say about United at any time (5 minutes after the press conference, 5 minutes before, during it, the next day, ring up the BBC sports desk at 9pm that same evening, whenever). The club official merely wanted the focus at the conference to be on Spurs and our next match and not on media guff about United. And it was something clearly agreed with Poch in advance.

You seriously expect us to believe that he is some kind of gagged prisoner at Spurs, who allows against his will some press conference minion to shut him up and thereafter somehow mysteriously stop him from saying he wants the United job?

I could give you any number of quotes from Poch about how much he loves being at Spurs and is in for the long-haul, but you'd ignore them all in favour of your "he's literally questioned the way the club is run" line.

PS. Spurs are already giving him a platform that is the stuff of dreams: witness our new stadium last night. You just can't handle the truth, namely that Pochettino didn't (and doesn't) want the United job because he prefers to stay at Spurs.

 

[BarcaSpurs]

Remember that Kane was only brought in after Soldado got injured and Pochettino had no other striking options. He bought Soldado knowing that Kane was at the club. Remember that players do improve by their own efforts and it isn’t just down to the manager’s ‘genius’.

Soldado was bought about 2 years before poch came ffs

 

[balaks]

He could finish 6th and lose the return leg to City and it will still be hailed as a great season. Such is the power of the media narrative when every Spurs win is treated like a tactical masterclass while disastrous runs like getting 1 point in 15 are swept under the rug. Even though Poch himself is quick to make excuses when he loses, he doesn’t even have to. The stooges in the media do that for him.

And of course that narrative rubs off on discussions here and elsewhere.

That is just simply not true.

 

[Saffron]

That is just simply not true.

They are 1 point away from Europa League with 6 games left and it’s considered a spectacular season already.

If they drop 1 point and finish below top 4, would the media narrative suddenly change completely or would they continute to make excuses for him? I’d wager the latter would happen.

 

[Cloud7]

I mean if Ole doesn't turn out to be a success, I'm pretty sure Poch will be our next manager.

This is what I think as well. Even if Ole’s a success, which I sincerely hope he is, he’ll be here for 3-4 years max, because that’s the way modern football goes. I can definitely see us wanting Pochettino to come in as his successor, unless his performances happen to plummet off a cliff during Ole’s tenure.

 

[RooneyLegend]

I see. So in summary you're:

(a) Saying that it doesn't really matter how much a manager has to spend on transfer fees and wages (that's good news for Accrington Stanley when they next come up against Real Madrid).

(b) Giving Pochettino no credit for the fact that his much less expensive players are now comparable in quality to those in teams who've spent much more.

You might have an issue with comprehension. All I'm saying is what Klopp did last season to Pep was more impressive than what Poch did last night. Remember this whole debate comes from a post where I said that I wasn't all that impressed with last night.

If you want to go down the road of debating him vs them in a complete analysis of what they've achieved, then you can bring all those points to the table.

 

[horsechoker]

Let's not forget that Spurs have not actually won the tie yet, nor have they secured their Champions League spot.

 

[balaks]

They are 1 point away from Europa League with 6 games left and it’s considered a spectacular season already.

If they drop 1 point and finish below top 4, would the media narrative suddenly change completely or would they continute to make excuses for him? I’d wager the latter would happen.

No it isn't. If we don't make the top 4 it will go down as a disaster. Not sure what world you live it but it isn't related to the one I'm in. You may not have high expectations for us but I do and most of our fans do too.

 

[crossy1686]

This is what I think as well. Even if Ole’s a success, which I sincerely hope he is, he’ll be here for 3-4 years max, because that’s the way modern football goes. I can definitely see us wanting Pochettino to come in as his successor, unless his performances happen to plummet off a cliff during Ole’s tenure.

I would rather Ole’s here for life’s to be honest. Don’t understand this fetishisation of Pochettino. Yes he’s a great manager and has done well but we have a manger and we should be wanting him to do amazing things with his United career, not planning his replacement already.

 

[GlastonSpur]

That is just simply not true.

I wouldn't worry. The claim that you've replied to is simply part of efforts to paint a contrast with United's alleged continuing status as an 'elite' club, the idea obviously being that such clubs have higher expectations and higher standards of what's deemed to be a success.

The only problem with this picture, of course, is that elite clubs don't fall out of the top 4 in their own domestic leagues with such frequency.

 

[charlenefan]

I wouldn't worry. The claim that you've replied to is simply part of efforts to paint a contrast with United's alleged continuing status as an 'elite' club, the idea obviously being that such clubs have higher expectations and higher standards of what's deemed to be a success.

The only problem with this picture, of course, is that elite clubs don't fall out of the top 4 in their own domestic leagues with such frequency.

You seem to think being an elite club is a status obtained by recent success? Let me ask you this, which of these two clubs are an elite club, AC Milan or Man City?

 

[SquishyMcSquish]

I wouldn't worry. The claim that you've replied to is simply part of efforts to paint a contrast with United's alleged continuing status as an 'elite' club, the idea obviously being that such clubs have higher expectations and higher standards of what's deemed to be a success.

The only problem with this picture, of course, is that elite clubs don't fall out of the top 4 in their own domestic leagues with such frequency.

Yeah they do/have.

Plenty of elite clubs have endured awful periods in their history, you don't stop being elite because you didn't finish couple 4 a few times. United are undoubtedly an elite level club with their revenue, worldwide fanbase etc, just because they're having short term struggles on the pitch doesn't alter that.

 

[TsuWave]

imagine not breaking the bank for Poch because of this "know what United is all about" merchant, and three months of outperforming xG

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Soldado was signed by Villas-Boas, not Pochettino.

Adebayor actually started off as Poch’s first choice centre forward but was dropped for Kane a few months into the season.

Apologies - my brain is addled and aged, but I certainly remember Tottenham’s striking problems were solved more through luck than judgement after the injury to Soldado, whom Pochettino seemed to give far too much time in the first team, if the addled memory serves.

He’s a great tactician, certainly, but I do feel that fans don’t give the players enough credit for their own improvement and seem to bestow all the credit to the manager. He’s got some very good players at Tottenham; just not enough of them in the squad to challenge for a title.

I feel unless he gets the cash to build this Tottenham team to challenge we won’t know if he has what it takes at the very highest level unless he takes a top job, and I think one must reserve judgment until that happens.

 

[Cloud7]

I would rather Ole’s here for life’s to be honest. Don’t understand this fetishisation of Pochettino. Yes he’s a great manager and has done well but we have a manger and we should be wanting him to do amazing things with his United career, not planning his replacement already.

I’m not fetishizing anyone. Our next manager could be Poch, Zidane, Howe or fecking Brendan Rodgers for all the predicting we can do for the future.

My point is that the chance of Ole being here for life is miniscule. Managers don’t do what Sir Alex did in the modern game. Hell, managers didn’t even do what he did 20 years ago, hence why he’s one of a kind. We need to stop clinging on to the hope of finding another SAF. It’s not going to happen, no matter how much we want it to. Managers are going to come and go, that’s the nature of football. We’ve had 3 managers who have failed thus far, but even if Ole succeeds, which I sincerely hope he does, he isn’t going to be here for 20 years. No manager is ever going to do that again. I can say that with supreme confidence. With that in mind it would be very short sighted of the club to not keep an eye on the other managers in world football, even if we put our all into Ole.

 

[Mogget]

You seem to think being an elite club is a status obtained by recent success? Let me ask you this, which of these two clubs are an elite club, AC Milan or Man City?

Elite

noun

1. a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society

Clearly it's Man City

 

[Josh 76]

I still think he will be our next manager. Sooner or later.

 

[2 man midfield]

I still think he will be our next manager. Sooner or later.

I have this feeling as well. I really want Ole to succeed but for arguments sake, if he has a Moyes season and we end up ‘relieving him on his duties’ after 10 months I could see Poch still being available after next season.

 

[kouroux]

He deserves for how he prepared them in that first tie. Return leg will be very interesting

 

[GlastonSpur]

Elite

noun

1. a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society

Clearly it's Man City

Quite so ... even if Man. City have arrived there by means of a sugar daddy.

 

[GM K]

Amazing foresight here.

People are already planning for Ole's replacement.

 

[charlenefan]

Elite

noun

1. a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society

Clearly it's Man City

Defined by the Cambridge Dictionary, the "elite" are "those people or organizations that are considered the best or most powerful compared to others of a similar type."

Clearly not