Kostov
Full Member
As long as this club is run by the glazers and Ed fecking Woodward, they could appoint Klopp and we would fail.
Agree. The only issue is that we really need to be in the UCL while we are undergoing this transformation. For money, for prestige, and for signing reasons.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
This. Totally agree. We have to be cruel to be kind as the saying goes.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
I do not think Ole is the answer to take us forward but this is a well balanced post that I cannot disagree with. It will be a slow painful process.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
Close to the truth, I reckon.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
I completely agree but Ole isn’t the man to do it, even with a balanced team. He’s simply not a good coach.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
The worst part about those names is that they don't even correspond to the type of players SAF would purchase to form the backbone of the team. I don't really understand why some fans seem to think that it's what we used to do. These are not the equivalent of Stam, Keane, Cole, Van Persie, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Tevez, Carrick, Rooney or Van Nistelrooy. Players like Evra and Ji Sung-Park had just impressed in the CL and Evra was a CL finalist with Monaco.I completely agree but Ole isn’t the man to do it, even with a balanced team. He’s simply not a good coach.
Continuing this work next season with a good coach will be key because those name you mentioned, they’ll need one hell of a fecking coach to be anything like a Manchester United team. On paper that sounds fecking rubbish.
Too much sense as always JP.The worst part about those names is that they don't even correspond to the type of players SAF would purchase to form the backbone of the team. I don't really understand why some fans seem to think that it's what we used to do. These are not the equivalent of Stam, Keane, Cole, Van Persie, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Tevez, Carrick, Rooney or Van Nistelrooy. Players like Evra and Ji Sung-Park had just impressed in the CL and Evra was a CL finalist with Monaco.
For Ole to sign that type of players and turn United into a SAF team would be a bigger achievement than anything SAF himself did.
You cannot wait to hope that these players develop. Waiting for Garner to develop could take 3/4 years. We cannot wait that long.I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again.
Fun fact United won the treble in Fergies first year.Is Ole really fixing the culture? I get that he is focusing on youth and a british core(which I think is silly), but ever since Moyes there has been complaints about lowered standards. It seems to me that Ole is lowering the standard every week. For me the whole culture of Man Utd during the fergies was having unforgiving winners at the helm. Now it's all smiles and no pressure when we are breaking negative records. Not even top 4 seems to be the minimum.
Fun fact. That’s exactly what everyone expects Ole to do.Fun fact United won the treble in Fergies first year.
Agree with this, even if Ole got these players there is little evidence to show that he would succeed with them. In more than a year Ole hasn´t showed anything to give us hope of a working defensive unit or a functioning attack unless it counter attacking which we are even really good at. Great players or characters need guiding and structure to work in Klopp and Fergie have showed what can be done with some key signings and a great plan and structure but sadly I don´t see Ole provide that.The worst part about those names is that they don't even correspond to the type of players SAF would purchase to form the backbone of the team. I don't really understand why some fans seem to think that it's what we used to do. These are not the equivalent of Stam, Keane, Cole, Van Persie, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Tevez, Carrick, Rooney or Van Nistelrooy. Players like Evra and Ji Sung-Park had just impressed in the CL and Evra was a CL finalist with Monaco.
For Ole to sign that type of players and turn United into a SAF team would be a bigger achievement than anything SAF himself did.
Well we’re not capable with this team but two midfielders in this window would see us finish 4th in my opinionPoch wants the job as manager and the fans will be the ones to convince the board. Unless Ole can manage to get Champions League football next season by whatever way, top 4 or winning the Europa League, I feel his time will be up.
Yes, would have a much better chance anyway.Well we’re not capable with this team but two midfielders in this window would see us finish 4th in my opinion
Grealish & Longstaff would hardly be massive improvements that would suddenly change everything, you’re all kidding yourselves.Well we’re not capable with this team but two midfielders in this window would see us finish 4th in my opinion
Thanks.Too much sense as always JP.
When did we sign them? We’re not in for everyone we’re linked with you know?Grealish & Longstaff would hardly be massive improvements that would suddenly change everything, you’re all kidding yourselves.
Who are we linked with? Because Longstaff especially is very very strongly linked.When did we sign them? We’re not in for everyone we’re linked with you know?
However, tell me how they’re both not an improvement on Lingard and Matic?
Has anyone made that point?Name me one manager who has never made a mistake with bringing in players or getting rid of some.
More or less by naming some of the mediocre players SAF brought in.Has anyone made that point?
Just asking a question if that's OK.Has anyone made that point?
Again referencing Saf. Are all managers in the world going to be compared to Saf in their first 6 years in charge?Fun fact United won the treble in Fergies first year.
Good post, but Ferguson is underrated as a coach and tactician. I feel like football has progressed so much since Ferguson took charge too. Players are fitter, stronger and there are some great examples of successful teams In recent years, who had a very characteristic style of play and footballing philosophy. Ferguson was a genius, his “style” can’t be replicated.Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
Well, you seemingly didn't follow the conversation then. Someone suggested that we were following SAF's plan by gambling on the likes of Garner and Greenwood but also targetting the likes of Grealish and Longstaff. I made the point that these players aren't the type of players that SAF would target to build/solidify the backbone of the team and that we wouldn't even gamble on youth players either because their development is volatile, you don't really know what they will be in 4 years.More or less by naming some of the mediocre players SAF brough in.
Just asking a question if that's OK.
I wasn't answering you in the first place. Is this pick on Bestietom time again.Well, you seemingly didn't follow the conversation then. Someone suggested that we were following SAF's plan by gambling on the likes of Garner and Greenwood but also targetting the likes of Grealish and Longstaff. I made the point that these players aren't the type of players that SAF would target to build/solidify the backbone of the team and that we wouldn't even gamble on youth players either because their development is volatile, you don't really know what they will be in 4 years.
It doesnt matter who the manager was its the fact he got 4 and a half years before winning anything. The time that he needed to change the culture.Again referencing Saf. Are all managers in the world going to be compared to Saf in their first 6 years in charge?
Which is why I initially asked you who made that point. And no one is picking on you, you asked a question and I wondered who it was addressed to.I wasn't answering you in the first place.
TRUERED 89 made it.Which is why I initially asked you who made that point. And no one is picking on you, you asked a question and I wondered who it was addressed to.
It was a completely different time. And United were 21st when he took over and ended them on 11th. In his 2nd season they ended in 2nd place in the league. Several of his players where alcoholics and Man Utd was not a financial behemoth.It doesnt matter who the manager was its the fact he got 4 and a half years before winning anything. The time that he needed to change the culture.
Why not have let Moyes seen out his 6 year contract then?It doesnt matter who the manager was its the fact he got 4 and a half years before winning anything. The time that he needed to change the culture.
Who am I? Woodward? Im not for sacking a manager every 5 fecking minutes.Why not have let Moyes seen out his 6 year contract then?
Yeah where did they finish the next season?It was a completely different time. And United were 21st when he took over and ended them on 11th. In his 2nd season they ended in 2nd place in the league. Several of his players where alcoholics and Man Utd was not a financial behemoth.
What culture is it excatly that Ole is implementing?
This fact is completely lost on many like Ramshock when they talk about "giving time like SAF got", many even mention Klopp.It was a completely different time. And United were 21st when he took over and ended them on 11th. In his 2nd season they ended in 2nd place in the league. Several of his players where alcoholics and Man Utd was not a financial behemoth.
What culture is it excatly that Ole is implementing?
Nice marketing trick.This fact is completely lost on many like Ramshock when they talk about "giving time like SAF got", many even mention Klopp.
• SAF took over in November 1986 with the team 21st and by January 1988 we were in a race for the league title, finally ending 2nd with a 57.8% win ratio.
SAF earned his extra time, not just with what he has done previously.
• Klopp took over in October 2015 with Liverpool in 12th (I think) and by January 2017 they were in a race for the league, they finished in 4th with a 57.8% win ratio.
Klopp earned his extra time, not just with what he has done previously.
• OIe took over in December 2018 with United in 6th and by January 2020 they are 5th, 27 points off the leaders and with a 38% win ratio.
Now that is damning, absolutely damning, made worse when you see what Brenda has done in less time with the team he took over in 12th place. We're supposed to just believe that Ole will come good because, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Ole is trying to repair the club under the guidance of Fergie and Mike Phelan in the background. I think the whole plan is to rebuild Utd in the Fergie way, then see where we're at once the rebuild is taking shape after the summer transfer window.
You only have to look Jose's second stint as Chelsea manager, when he flogged Mo Salah and De Bruyne for peanuts, while replacing them with expensive short term fixes like Fabregas and Diego Costa, to see the damage a short-termism approach can do to a club. We repeated the mistakes by giving Jose an open checkbook to sign expensive short-term flops like Matic and Alexis.
The Fergie way was always the opposite approach, short term pain for long term gain, and we are seeing signs of progress with developing young players. Under Fergie, so many players looked like they'd never be good enough, from Fletcher to Gary Neville to Cristiano Ronaldo who all mostly frustrated at the start, before slowly finding their way.
Klopp was all smiles and relaxed, even when Liverpool fans seriously doubted him in the first 6 months. I don't think a modern manager has to have a constant scowl like what was needed in the past. I think we're a Grealish, a developed Garner, Greenwood and James and a developed Longstaff away from being a balanced team again. I feel if Ole can last until that happens, then he might just succeed here. If not then bring in the best in the business who fits the philosophy and who can improve on Ole's youthful rebuild, whether Naglesmann, Pochettino or Marco Rose.
The worst part about those names is that they don't even correspond to the type of players SAF would purchase to form the backbone of the team. I don't really understand why some fans seem to think that it's what we used to do. These are not the equivalent of Stam, Keane, Cole, Van Persie, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Tevez, Carrick, Rooney or Van Nistelrooy. Players like Evra and Ji Sung-Park had just impressed in the CL and Evra was a CL finalist with Monaco.
For Ole to sign that type of players and turn United into a SAF team would be a bigger achievement than anything SAF himself did.
This is fecking mental. It's as if ability actually doesn't matter.You're forgetting the Mal Donaghy years. Fergie took 15 years to acquire that lot. Ole has had one year.
Great comparison.