Pre-season is just over 2 weeks away. We cannot afford to let our business drag until the end of the window.
Aaron Wan-Bissaka | The Ornacle speaks: It is done.
- Thread starter IrishRedDevil
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Pretty sure this hasn't been reported, and if it's true we should go for another RB instead, £50m for a young fullback is a very good offer
We should get Max Aarons and get over this. No way he's worth 40mil, let alone 70mil.
I'm being lazy but do you have the amount of attempted dribbles? It could explain the dispossessed stat for Wan Bissaka. Also something that people tend to overlook that stat is influenced by the amount of passes received under pressure, some players are used as "dumping ground" by their teammates, we used to do it with Carrick in his later years which made his performances even more impressive.Comparison of AWB vs the top 6 teams most played RB last season.
His defensive numbers are very impressive it has to be said, beefed up a bit of course due to the team he plays for but saying that his numbers are some of the best in the league over all.
Couldn't find them on PL or Sofascore, might be another site out there that has them possibly.
But quick look at his overall mins and sofascore saying he avg 1.7 per 90 mins means he made approx 59 attempts overall. I'm probably way off with that so if other posters want to go search for it by all means
So, I eventually looked and based on Whoscored my suspicion seems correct. In the PL, Wan Bissaka tried 2.6 dribbles per 90 while Young tried 1.2 and Azpilicueta 0.6.Couldn't find them on PL or Sofascore, might be another site out there that has them possibly.
But quick look at his overall mins and sofascore saying he avg 1.7 per 90 mins means he made approx 59 attempts overall. I'm probably way off with that so if other posters want to go search for it by all means
Are Spurs not in for him? Would surprise me considering Trippier has declined.
I don't know about Sofascore, but on Whoscored, dispossession and dribbles are not that related.
I can't see Spurs spending that much, but someone else might. It's a worry anyway.
Problem is, clubs and agents know we desperately need to buy, and the longer they play hard ball the more we'll be prepared to pay.
I don't know why other clubs get away with it though.
The point is the difference in style and approach from players, it will affect the situations where they receive the ball and what they do/try with it.
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For 1 v 1 defending on the ground, there is nobody in Europe better than Wan-Bissaka.
For me, the most important attribute for a FB is 1 v 1 defending on the ground.
I don't care how much he costs, I want us to sign him because DEFENSIVELY we will improve and we will have the best defensive RB in Europe.
Positive - interceptions and tackles won.
Negative - number of times dribbled past and fouls committed.
If we use Fellaini as an example of a player that is average (better than 50%) in terms of 1 v 1 defending on the ground.
355 interceptions, 636 tackles won, 236 times dribbled past, 607 fouls committed since 2009.
54.03% positive.
You can clearly see that Fellaini is no master at the art of defending 1 v 1.
Now we can look at 3 CBs and a DM who are.
86.56% positive Ferdinand (255-170-31-35)
79.85% positive Van Dijk (322-197-23-108)
78.91% positive Thiago Silva (868-580-108-279)
75.86% positive Carrick (582-565-229-136)
So why is Wan-Bissaka so good and worth whatever we pay?
86.82% positive Wan-Bissaka (99-158-14-25)
A few other RBs from Premier League
73.74% positive Azpilicueta (766-1062-290-361)
73.57% positive Walker (560-640-176-255)
69.62% positive Alexander-Arnold (110-149-68-45)
Find me someone better than Wan-Bissaka at 1 v 1 defending.
Wan-Bissaka is a master at the art of defending 1 v 1
All numbers are from Whoscored, 2009-present
For me, the most important attribute for a FB is 1 v 1 defending on the ground.
I don't care how much he costs, I want us to sign him because DEFENSIVELY we will improve and we will have the best defensive RB in Europe.
Positive - interceptions and tackles won.
Negative - number of times dribbled past and fouls committed.
If we use Fellaini as an example of a player that is average (better than 50%) in terms of 1 v 1 defending on the ground.
355 interceptions, 636 tackles won, 236 times dribbled past, 607 fouls committed since 2009.
54.03% positive.
You can clearly see that Fellaini is no master at the art of defending 1 v 1.
Now we can look at 3 CBs and a DM who are.
86.56% positive Ferdinand (255-170-31-35)
79.85% positive Van Dijk (322-197-23-108)
78.91% positive Thiago Silva (868-580-108-279)
75.86% positive Carrick (582-565-229-136)
So why is Wan-Bissaka so good and worth whatever we pay?
86.82% positive Wan-Bissaka (99-158-14-25)
A few other RBs from Premier League
73.74% positive Azpilicueta (766-1062-290-361)
73.57% positive Walker (560-640-176-255)
69.62% positive Alexander-Arnold (110-149-68-45)
Find me someone better than Wan-Bissaka at 1 v 1 defending.
Wan-Bissaka is a master at the art of defending 1 v 1
All numbers are from Whoscored, 2009-present
Talks still ongoing, he is away with under 21's.
So, do they want to 40m plus Zaha's 20%? I think that would be a fair deal. Or do they want to 50-60m plus Zaha's 20%? Because that would be ridiculous.
We are all only going on what the media are saying, mate. Just don't know what to believe yet.
Anyway he is in Italy with under 21's now.
Nice work. I just hope he can add to our attack. He can't be worse than Young now though.
Exactly. If he gets in 1 cross per game he's doing better than Ash and Tony have managed in godknowshowlong.
I'm ambivalent about seeing us linked with him.
On the one hand it's clear we need to reinforce at right back so I'm happy if we are looking for new players in that position.
However, though I have nothing against Wan-Bissaka in isolation, I'm a bit concerned in the context of our one other signing so far.
Firstly, I'd be worried at the indication that the rumours are true, and that we are working on the basis of some idiotic Better Buy British transfer policy.
Secondly, my impression of Wan-Bissaka is that his assets are primarily defensive, and that he's not the player you would go to if you were looking to enhance the contribution of the right back to our attacking play. My worry about starting the transfer window by adding a fleet-footed winger and a solid defensive right back is the suggestion of archaic notions about how to set up a team - i.e. start from a solid, unshowy defensive base, and focus the attack on lightning pace and hitting teams on the break. This is going to get us nowhere in 2019.
Obviously this is all extrapolation - I'm really hoping things don't turn out that way.
On the one hand it's clear we need to reinforce at right back so I'm happy if we are looking for new players in that position.
However, though I have nothing against Wan-Bissaka in isolation, I'm a bit concerned in the context of our one other signing so far.
Firstly, I'd be worried at the indication that the rumours are true, and that we are working on the basis of some idiotic Better Buy British transfer policy.
Secondly, my impression of Wan-Bissaka is that his assets are primarily defensive, and that he's not the player you would go to if you were looking to enhance the contribution of the right back to our attacking play. My worry about starting the transfer window by adding a fleet-footed winger and a solid defensive right back is the suggestion of archaic notions about how to set up a team - i.e. start from a solid, unshowy defensive base, and focus the attack on lightning pace and hitting teams on the break. This is going to get us nowhere in 2019.
Obviously this is all extrapolation - I'm really hoping things don't turn out that way.
He is better than what we have - it’s as simple as that.
It isn't.
Just buying any player who is better than what you already have without concern for how their attributes fit into the kind of football you want to play is daft.
Just being better than what we have is not enough. If he ends up being similar to Shaw, defensive and solid but with very rare offensive contribution, for 60m I'll be very disappointed. For such price you'll expect a top fullback with great offensive support and good crossing abilities.
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Wan Bissaka is an excellent defender and what we need. If we can bring in a commanding CB with him we would be fine defensively, but we still need sorting in midfield where we were outplayed so many times last season.
Look at this way, our attack is going to be as garbage as last season, so if we improve our defense, at least we'll be more solid.
We REFUSE to sign a left footed right sided attacker. We REFUSE to have a balanced forward line where we attack down the left and down the right in equal measure. If we have no plans to attack down the right, it doesn't matter how good the RB is at attacking down the right.
We REFUSE to sign a left footed right sided attacker. We REFUSE to have a balanced forward line where we attack down the left and down the right in equal measure. If we have no plans to attack down the right, it doesn't matter how good the RB is at attacking down the right.
Those stats can be deceiving, his defensive numbers will be higher since Palace are on the back foot a lot in games v Top 6 sides.
I think he's a good player, physical / technical skills are there. 50 million is a lot but that's just the way it is now.
I think he's a good player, physical / technical skills are there. 50 million is a lot but that's just the way it is now.
Dalot is exactly the same as meunier.
Same type of player and Meunier has hardly had a stand out season come to his prime.
Makes sense to go for AWB. Two different styles at RB for us.
Add sessegnon or Tierney at LB and we are all sorted.
Same type of player and Meunier has hardly had a stand out season come to his prime.
Makes sense to go for AWB. Two different styles at RB for us.
Add sessegnon or Tierney at LB and we are all sorted.
A top offensive right back can solve our attacking problems on the right though. Not sure why you think otherwise.
Palace conceded fewer goals than United last season.
Also, having a defensively secure RB will allow for a RW that's shit at tracking back.
There's more than one way to be a fullback. Just because Klopp likes things a certain way, that doesn't mean there aren't equally potent alternatives.
No they aren't misleading. The RATIO of positive to negative does not depend on whether a team defends or attacks more. It's not about totals. It's about ratio between positive and negative.
and you think Ole wouldn’t do that??
Like I said he’s better than what we have - and has plenty of room to grow - I’m really excited and hope we land him
Klopp, Zidane, Guardiola, Sir Alex, and every other managers of big teams are using attacking fullbacks.
Zidane used what he had, which happened to be world class attacking fullbacks.
Guardiola has used fullbacks that play more like midfielders than wingers on numerous occasions (Delph for example)
SAF won the CL with Brown at RB and Hargreaves at RW.
There is no single definitive template for how a team should shape up.
So Zidane and Guardiola using FBs who contribute more to attack.
SAF won that CL, who was the other FB again? hmm..
We all know that every big teams are using attacking FB, or at least in one side. Why not just admit it, we're going the wrong way?
Go compare AWB's attacking stats to Kyle Walker's. I'll wait.
He does not have the requisite progressive passing game. That's ok for a site back + counter-attack team but not enough for a team that wants to dominate possession and play on the front foot. He is not worth more than around 40 - 45m IMO.
But contribute less to defence. And Evra got 1 assist in 33 PL appearances that season. AWB had triple the output this season.
It's not about what an individual can provide. It's about what the team as a whole can cover.
On the right flank you need defensive security, passing, creativity and attacking output. That could come from multiple players contributing a lttle bit to everything, or specialists contributing to only one or two things. The point is to get world class levels of contribution overall, and AWB can provide that single-handed on the defensive side. That frees up the RW.
Equally well, there's no single template for a midfield unit or an attacking unit.
You are significantly underrating his attacking game and also his potential for growth as a 21 year old. He is already defensively the best RB in the league and is years away from his prime. The thing that really is starting to irritate me though is the insistence that he is only worth 40-45m. Walker went for 50m 2 years ago and AWB is already a better player and is nowhere near his ceiling. Why are we freaking out over paying 60-70m to sort out the position for the next 10 years? The Glazers have given everyone Stockholm Syndrome, we are now campaigning to save money for them and approaching the transfer market like we are Bournemouth. This is Manchester United, we really do have far more money than the competition and so unless you are losing sleep worrying about how to pay for another yacht for Joel Glazer lets pay the fecking price and get on with building the team.
What? If you watch football, you can see Kyle Walker was one of attacking FB.
So you think AWB is better than Evra, because the stats shows he has more assists. Ok mate.
And now AWB can provide world class level defensively single-handedly. Excellent, mate.
Your understanding of football is very old-fashioned and narrow minded.
It's a bit rich coming from you who is adamant that fullback has to be more defensive than attacking.- Status