Actor Elliot Page (formerly Ellen Page) comes out as transgender

bsCallout

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I second this.

First thought: Great for Elliott
Second thought: Why is this news?
Really?

You think society has progressed that far as a whole? It is still news when someone is gay or bi.

This forum is one of the most progressive places I frequent.

It is important that it is new, so it's not 'hidden'.
 

Fingeredmouse

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But aren't those examples clearly different than this one? Here I'd definitely say "he's over there".
Yes, they're different but there's many, many examples where they and derivatives are used singularly.

You well use he in the example I gave. I suspect I would but I doubt you'd even notice if "they" were used by another.

Imagine the person's name is unknown.

Has that lady got in her taxi?
They've left their umbrella.
 

OleBoiii

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Well it would have been a better a experience if I didn't have to contend with guys trying explain me all night that any man would feel pleasure by having a penis shoved up their anus. I'll reserve the right to say that gay/queer bars arent for me. Any way, I don't want to make derail the thread, the pronouns just confuses me.
Your loss! Gay men are great at giving compliments in my experience. The head of my former workplace's "social department" was a regular DJ at a gay bar. Almost every time my colleagues went out for drinks we ended up there. One of the nicest atmosphere's I've experienced. Even the bouncers were super nice!
 

OleBoiii

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Well I'm sure there are some great gay/queers bars out there, my one experience was just bad enough. I think my visible disappointment of the lack of hot lesbians and bi-sexual women outed me pretty quickly. It was crap bar anyhow. Straight/queer or otherwise.
Feck's sake :lol:
 

Stack

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Things are getting better. I recall when Ellen came out as gay it made the cover of Time magazine and now I dont think an announcement like that would capture the attention of the public as it did back then.
I think things are improving but I do remember that back in the early 80s we had an anti racism and bigotry thing going on but sadly 40 years on it doesnt feel that much better in some respects. But there is a move in the right direction, its just a slow process.
 

Wibble

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So is Eliot a straight man now? Forgive me for being confused, but if his prefers pronouns are he/they, how does this whole thing of being plo ural make sense?
It doesn't need to make sense to you or me. I'm guessing the he bit is to show he identifies as a man and maybe the they bit is to show solidarity with others or just to.say gender isn't that important - just like CIS people who use genderless pronouns?

Either way why not just comply with someone's wishes and carry on?
 

Shamana

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It doesn't need to make sense to you or me. I'm guessing the he bit is to show he identifies as a man and maybe the they bit is to show solidarity with others or just to.say gender isn't that important - just like CIS people who use genderless pronouns?

Either way why not just comply with someone's wishes and carry on?
I'll carry on, I don't want to derail the thread anyway.
 

Chipper

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Yes, they're different but there's many, many examples where they and derivatives are used singularly.

You well use he in the example I gave. I suspect I would but I doubt you'd even notice if "they" were used by another.

Imagine the person's name is unknown.

Has that lady got in her taxi?
They've left their umbrella.
That sounds off to me. I'd expect she in such circumstances because the person has already been referred to as a lady and her. Now I don't think you can't refer to an individual person as they but right there it does sound a little odd.

These sound fine:

Has your client left yet? They left their umbrella behind.

The poster known as Fingeredmouse on red cafe replied to Vorzakone and they said (insert post here).
 

marktan

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I think I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to transgender issues vs other issues, so I'd like to learn more if possible as it's not something ever really actively looked into.

Does anyone know if there's a specific criteria needed to be seen as transgender - e.g. in this case would Elliot/Ellen need to undergo any pyshiological changes to identify as a man, or is all that is needed is for a person to state they identify as transgender for them to be classified as such? Medically is there a legal criteria that needs to be met?

For instance with gay people - maybe not in all examples but for a lot of examples people would say they were born gay, or knew they were gay from a young age (especially in people that are homosexual vs bisexual). Is it a similar thing with transgender people?

I can't really think of many examples at all outside of Caitlyn Jenner, who I believe transitioned quite late in life and got the medical stuff done.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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Great for them. He's 33, so it's likely they have battled with gender dysphoria for some time. I'm glad they can now be free to be who they are.

The downside of things like this is the rabid gammons frothing at the mouth on social media, purposely misgendering and deadnaming to be edgy. It's a grim reminder that there's still a long way to go when it comes to tolerance.
 

sebsheep

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I went to gay bar once with a bisexual female friend. Never again. In nightlife über macho guys tend to assume I'm gay because i'm slightly feminine, so I wondered how long it would take before I was outed as straight in a gay bar. Took 5 minutes.
:lol: That's a pretty weird post.
 

Wibble

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I think I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to transgender issues vs other issues, so I'd like to learn more if possible as it's not something ever really actively looked into.
I'm no expert but I believe a transgender person identifiesxas and lives as a gender other than they were identified as at birth.

[Quite]Does anyone know if there's a specific criteria needed to be seen as transgender - e.g. in this case would Elliot/Ellen need to undergo any pyshiological changes to identify as a man, or is all that is needed is for a person to state they identify as transgender for them to be classified as such? Medically is there a legal criteria that needs to be met?[/quote]

Being transgender doesn't necessarily involve medical intervention although it probably increasingly does.

I don't know the exact details but zI do know that it isn't just a case of rocking up to the GP and asking for hormone tablets and surgery. I'm sure it always involves a huge amount of assessment to make sure that each step is justified.

For instance with gay people - maybe not in all examples but for a lot of examples people would say they were born gay, or knew they were gay from a young age (especially in people that are homosexual vs bisexual). Is it a similar thing with transgender people?
I imagine it is. I know that was the case with my nephew but not sure quite how young he was when he realised.
 

Chipper

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I still refer to him as Andy Cole!
So does he sometimes, he's @andycole09 on instagram. I don't think he minds.

He gave an interview once and said the whole Andrew thing came about because he was asked what his parents called him and he said Andrew. The press then ran with him wanting to be called Andrew. I think he uses Andrew more often as his instagram says his actiual name is Andrew Cole as do his Twitter and Facebook but like I said I don't think he's too fussed either way.
 

Maagge

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Obviously none of this cool story actually happened but it does sound a lot like what most attractive females contend with in straight bars on an average night out so I guess the morale of your story is that it doesn’t matter what orientation, men are generally pretty awful when hopped up.
Yeah, going to a gay bar in London as a teenager was basically when I really realised what women have to deal with from men when going out.
 

Harry Harries

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He always comes across well from the bits I've heard. Good for him!
Both very good films and I enjoyed Elliot's work in both.
I don't know why but it feels unusual referring to an actor by their first name, even in a thread dedicated to them.
 

sebsheep

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Obviously none of this cool story actually happened but it does sound a lot like what most attractive females contend with in straight bars on an average night out so I guess the morale of your story is that it doesn’t matter what orientation, men are generally pretty awful when hopped up.
To be honest aside from not really being thread related, the story isn't that crazy. It sounds like a bit of an exaggeration for it to be a night long thing from several guys though. If me and the missus go out to Manchester we always spend a decent amount of time in the gay village and I've had my fair share of comments over the years, don't think anyone has ever told me that it's "pleasurable to have a penis up my anus though". :lol: It's probably the most friendly area I've been to in town and a great laugh. All they really need is a rock club.
My wife has actually had issues with straight guys when out in the village when she's gone on ladies nights out, from creepy hair sniffing to guys getting aggressive when she said she's not interested.
 

sebsheep

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He always comes across well from the bits I've heard. Good for him!

I don't know why but it feels unusual referring to an actor by their first name, even in a thread dedicated to them.
Now that you have pointed it out, yeah it does actually. Didn't even think about it at the time.
 

Damien

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That sounds off to me. I'd expect she in such circumstances because the person has already been referred to as a lady and her. Now I don't think you can't refer to an individual person as they but right there it does sound a little odd.

These sound fine:

Has your client left yet? They left their umbrella behind.

The poster known as Fingeredmouse on red cafe replied to Vorzakone and they said (insert post here).
Good examples. There are also names that are unisex - my neighbours are a couple called Chris and Mel for example. From the names alone you wouldn't be able to tell if they're male/male, male/female, female/female, female/male. So if you've not really met either before, but speak to, say, Chris and they* say their partner Mel isn't well, you'd say "I hope they feel better soon"


*hey, another example
 

Lay

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Forgot about Hard Candy, good film.
 

Brophs

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Somewhere in Essex there’s a bloke called Steve, whose Twitter profile tells us that he loves “Beer, The Irons and his kids WHO I FOUGHT IN THE COURTS FOR” who is wondering whether that wank he had 13 years ago makes him gay.

Joking aside, fair play to Elliot. I can’t even begin to imagine what that sort of decision must be like with the scrutiny people in their position are under.
 

Snow

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I think things are improving but I do remember that back in the early 80s we had an anti racism and bigotry thing going on but sadly 40 years on it doesnt feel that much better in some respects. But there is a move in the right direction, its just a slow process.
Yesterday I was listening to the Louis Theroux podcast and that episode had Lenny Henry. Man, I would not have wanted his upbringing in England. His late 60's and early 70's school years were brutal mostly because he was black and had an immigrant mother. His mum didn't exactly make it easy either but that's another story.

Anyways, they talk briefly about how England and they share your sense in some way.
 

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I try to keep up on things but today is the first time I've heard the term deadnaming (was on Twitter and had to look it up)
 

maniak

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Good for Elliot, hopefully it inspires others.

A colleague of mine who teaches Portuguese said she talked about neutral pronouns today in class because some kids were talking about this news, so I'm glad it's news. In Portuguese we don't have a singular they, so it's not as easy as in english, we literally had to come up with new words, but she told me the kids understood it, found it interesting and seemed fine with it, which is great news. If only their parents could follow the example.
 
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Stack

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Yesterday I was listening to the Louis Theroux podcast and that episode had Lenny Henry. Man, I would not have wanted his upbringing in England. His late 60's and early 70's school years were brutal mostly because he was black and had an immigrant mother. His mum didn't exactly make it easy either but that's another story.

Anyways, they talk briefly about how England and they share your sense in some way.
I remember when Punk first appeared in the 70s the main Punk bands were anti racism, The Clash etc and there was the whole Reggae scene and Ska taking off. There were off shoots that were pretty racist but the general feeling was anti racism and bigotry. Tom Robinson band for example on the bigotry front. I took part in the anti South African rugby team tours protest at the beginning of the 80s so I really thought it was the beginning of the end for those sorts of issues. I do see some headway from the younger generation so the hope is there but its just slower than I thought it would be.
 

lsd

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Looked decent to start with, but soon just turns into another half arsed show.

The dude with muscles looks ridiculous tok :lol:

I like it and i usually hate any sort of superhero thing so maybe it is not that great for anyone who is into those types of shows :lol:

I was pretty much forced into watching and then mocked for saying i thought Diego was the best character
 

MadMike

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He’s married, right? With someone who is (or was up until now at least) a lesbian woman?
 

Snow

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I remember when Punk first appeared in the 70s the main Punk bands were anti racism, The Clash etc and there was the whole Reggae scene and Ska taking off. There were off shoots that were pretty racist but the general feeling was anti racism and bigotry. Tom Robinson band for example on the bigotry front. I took part in the anti South African rugby team tours protest at the beginning of the 80s so I really thought it was the beginning of the end for those sorts of issues. I do see some headway from the younger generation so the hope is there but its just slower than I thought it would be.
Yeah it is slow but changes are slow. We're now tackling consumerism in order to reduce the effects of climate change and that's hard because consumerism has been tactically amplified in our culture (much more so in the US than Europe but still) since the end of WWII. BLM was a long time coming and might be the push needed to get the rest of the people to wake up. In my bubble trans-activism has been prominent and well received, people have caught on relatively quick to accepting, using proper pronouns and and not deadnaming. JKR opinions 5 years ago would not be so controversial. That's how long since Caitlyn Jenner came out which was such a huge "start". This is also huge. Not Caitlyn huge because the times have changed but still huge.
 

lsd

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He’s married, right? With someone who is (or was up until now at least) a lesbian woman?

Yes i assume they would both identify as being bi now? It's a life changing choice so it is only natural people would be curious about it which in turn hopefully educates us more into understanding it all.
 

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I really like him as an actor and I’m happy for him today, can’t be easy having to make these kind of announcements to a massive audience and I’m not surprised that he felt some trepidation, hopefully he’s shown a lot of support as he’s shown a lot of courage.

Good for him.

Is Umbrella Academy any good?
I thought it was pretty awful tbh, lazy writing and predictable. The characters are ‘eccentric’ but dull. I heard season 2 was better but I didn’t manage to finish the first one.
 

Stack

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Yeah it is slow but changes are slow. We're now tackling consumerism in order to reduce the effects of climate change and that's hard because consumerism has been tactically amplified in our culture (much more so in the US than Europe but still) since the end of WWII. BLM was a long time coming and might be the push needed to get the rest of the people to wake up. In my bubble trans-activism has been prominent and well received, people have caught on relatively quick to accepting, using proper pronouns and and not deadnaming. JKR opinions 5 years ago would not be so controversial. That's how long since Caitlyn Jenner came out which was such a huge "start". This is also huge. Not Caitlyn huge because the times have changed but still huge.
I do have a lot of hope for the younger generations, I think they have a greater chance of making changes and there has been a renewed sense of purpose among their ranks. There are some very smart and very principled young people pushing for change.
 

AkaAkuma

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Ive often found his acting work playing female roles to be offputting as his dour personality came through, it just didnt seem to fit female behaviour. Ofcourse women can be downbeat but with Page something always felt off.

I guess if shes to become a trans man then perhaps he will be better suited to dour male roles.

In a roundabout way im saying his acting is abit one note.

Apologies if i got the pronouns wrong.
 

Listar

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Yes i assume they would both identify as being bi now? It's a life changing choice so it is only natural people would be curious about it which in turn hopefully educates us more into understanding it all.
Would assume so. One of my family member previous girlfriend left him because he changed gender, citing "if I want to be with a boy I wouldn't be a lesbian". It is already tough to be queer and when you throw in transgender into the mix then the pool of available interested party is that much smaller.