Actor Elliot Page (formerly Ellen Page) comes out as transgender

Dante

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
 
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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I rewatched any of their old films today without hearing about this news, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
I think it’s best to refer to them as he (or they) even when talking in a past tense. That’s the advice my friend gave me when I asked about referring to them in a past sense anyway, I’m not fully sure on how it’s viewed in the wider trans community.
 

Hammerfell

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
Go with what they want to be referred to now. He/they. E.g. 'They were great in Juno.'
 

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What do you think this will do to his career? I personally think it’ll have detrimental effects.
 

Damien

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
Stick to he or they, unless talking specifically about the character he played which was a woman.

That's where deadnaming comes in, in the threadbanner. Depends on the person - some are fine with having their deadname mentioned, but on the whole they prefer to forget the past and be their current self.



Opening paragraph makes it clear how he wants to be addressed as, so though muscle memory might mean you misgender him accidentally, in time it'll become second nature to use the right pronouns.
 

Sparky_Hughes

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Best of luck to him, if he is happy and now feels like he is being who he is meant to be, then thats what matters.

Hard Candy was pretty good.
I love that film, must watch it again I think.
Somewhere in Essex there’s a bloke called Steve, whose Twitter profile tells us that he loves “Beer, The Irons and his kids WHO I FOUGHT IN THE COURTS FOR” who is wondering whether that wank he had 13 years ago makes him gay.
Also has a staffy, drives a focus RS and exclusively eats and drinks in places called the princess Di and the Rovers return when on holiday, and moans "forrins cant do a good english breakfast"
 

Mr Pigeon

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
I'm just going with the assumption that when he played a female in Juno he was outwardly female but probably knew he was male in his head. I don't think he just woke up yesterday and decided he was male. I suppose unless he tells us his preference we won't really know what's best.
What do you think this will do to his career? I personally think it’ll have detrimental effects.
I'm trying to think about how many roles he's had already that were fundamentally based on the character being a woman. All I can think of is Juno and Hard Candy. Even in Inception it's not out of the realms of possibility that Jason Gordon Levitt's character wanted to snog a guy in that one scene.
 

Dante

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Stick to he or they, unless talking specifically about the character he played which was a woman.

That's where deadnaming comes in, in the threadbanner. Depends on the person - some are fine with having their deadname mentioned, but on the whole they prefer to forget the past and be their current self.



Opening paragraph makes it clear how he wants to be addressed as, so though muscle memory might mean you misgender him accidentally, in time it'll become second nature to use the right pronouns.
I don't want to labour the point because I'm quite happy to use 'he/they'. But he has used the present tense of 'am' and 'are' rather than 'always been'.

But this is just me be a pedantic cnut, so feel free to ignore me.
 

One Night Only

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This is on my "to watch" waiting list. Just curious, did you read the original comic books? If so, did you like them?
Nope, never read the comics so don't know if it follows them properly or whatever.

Someone else later in this thread summed it up well, mentions the characters being eccentric, but dull. Lazy and predictable too.
 

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Drive through all the time whenever possible these days. It gets worse when you also find out it's also the name of a popular brand of allergy medication in the US...
To be fair, you could have done much worse. The other two big allergy meds are Claritin and Zyrtec.
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
It may be different for Elliot, but generally it seems that trans people would prefer that their current pronouns become retrospective.

The singer of the band Against Me! came out as a trans woman in 2012, and since then they've re-released most of their back catalogue with her trans name in place of her previous birth name in the liner notes. I suppose it depicts that it is who they've always been but didn't feel comfortable making it public, but that experience of gender dysphoria could be very different for others.
 

Smores

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
It's not really retrospective renaming in that example because the he/she would be identifying the gender of the individual now not then.

I guess the retrospective element would be if you had to recredit films or change historical events. I assume they're not classed under deadnaming but I don't actually know.
 

dumbo

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Have always had a lot of time for them. A great actor, who has often spoken out on important issues, from the sexual objectification they were having to work under, to the attempt to steal their likeness, to LGBTQ issues. It's an admirable statement that acknowledges the privileged position they are in, and comes out strong against the maliciousness that is often directed towards trans people. It's always welcome when another smart and articulate role model for a marginalised people springs up.

To crudely mention their appearance for a second, there has always been something quite androgynous in Pages performances. It wouldn't take much to view their roles as either male or female characters. Juno obviously sign posts sex somewhat with the reproductive biology thing and Whip It is a necessarily gendered role but even these performances blur the gender line. Of the films I've seen, they were never stereotypical feminine characters. All of which has nothing to do with trans legitimacy. Appearance shouldn't have any bearing on how someone might wish to gender themselves.
 

nimic

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It's incorrect English though isn't it?

But I don't see why the he/she should confuse anyone. Elliot is a trans male hence use he. Simples.
Something that has been in use for 600 years is pretty much by definition always correct. Correct English describes usage, not an ideal (though it will always lag a bit behind).
 

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Not that the quality of an artists work should be the basis on whether we support them on coming out, Juno is one of the best coming of age films of the last 20 years, and I wish nothing but happiness for Elliot.
 

Gambit

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So by him continuing to keep his job and play a she, isn't he taking work from someone like say a transgender actress?
 

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Somewhere in Essex there’s a bloke called Steve, whose Twitter profile tells us that he loves “Beer, The Irons and his kids WHO I FOUGHT IN THE COURTS FOR” who is wondering whether that wank he had 13 years ago makes him gay.

Joking aside, fair play to Elliot. I can’t even begin to imagine what that sort of decision must be like with the scrutiny people in their position are under.
:lol:
 

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christ the caf is a breath of fresh air with topics such as this compared to, well, pretty much every other social media platform out there. well done us!
 

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Would it be right to say "Elliot was born a biological female" rather than "he/they was/were designated female"?

I find the idea that somebody is designated a gender like it was taken up by committee a bit strange when in reality it would have simply been an observation of bodily features.
 

MadDogg

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What's the protocol when talking about their past?

He's Elliot Page as of today. But in 2007 they starred in Juno as a female actress called Ellen Page.

So is okay to to say 'she was brilliant in 2007 in Juno' as long as we respect their current designation and say 'he's going to be brilliant in 2021 in his next movie'?

Or should we also retrospectively re-name and re-gender them?

Instinctively, it seems as though Juno was a movie which captured a moment in time when they were female. If I'd rewatched any of their old films today before opening this thread, that would certainly be the natural conclusion I'd come to.
That's what I've always struggled with. I have a cousin who has made the female to male transition and I can't help but think of 'her' when I think of things in the past. He definitely wants it to be 'he' even when talking about past stuff though so, combined with the statement, I expect Elliot Page is the same.
 

MadMike

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Would it be right to say "Elliot was born a biological female" rather than "he/they was/were designated female"?

I find the idea that somebody is designated a gender like it was taken up by committee a bit strange when in reality it would have simply been an observation of bodily features.
No idea mate. What you're saying is that technically what is assigned at birth is sex, not gender. It's based exclusively on the visible reproductive organs.
 

Snow

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Ive often found his acting work playing female roles to be offputting as his dour personality came through, it just didnt seem to fit female behaviour. Ofcourse women can be downbeat but with Page something always felt off.

I guess if shes to become a trans man then perhaps he will be better suited to dour male roles.

In a roundabout way im saying his acting is abit one note.

Apologies if i got the pronouns wrong.
Just use they, it's always safe. Speaking online with someone that you don't know anything about except their username? Use they. It covers everything and you won't offend anyone.
 

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It's incorrect English though isn't it?

But I don't see why the he/she should confuse anyone. Elliot is a trans male hence use he. Simples.
I believe transgender doesn't just mean female to male or vice versa. It also encompasses change from one gender to any of the other 64 genders that are identified.
In Elliot's case, I believe she considers herself non-binary ...in a sense plural, so use of they is justified in this circumstance, or so I read.

Someone more knowledgeable can provide more light.
 

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I believe transgender doesn't just mean female to male or vice versa. It also encompasses change from one gender to any of the other 64 genders that are identified.
Only peripherally on point but I believe there are 64 terms that describe gender rather than 64 genders (I'm sure there are better informed people who can correct or expand on that) and that transphobes have used that to push a "64 genders? That is ludicrous" line to undermine trans rights (not at all implying this is what you are doing BTW).
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Only peripherally on point but I believe there are 64 terms that describe gender rather than 64 genders (I'm sure there are better informed people who can correct or expand on that) and that transphobes have used that to push a "64 genders? That is ludicrous" line to undermine trans rights (not at all implying this is what you are doing BTW).
Yeah, not the implication I was going for.
I didn't even know that genders and terms that define genders were different! Let's see if someone more informed contributes more on this.
 

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So by him continuing to keep his job and play a she, isn't he taking work from someone like say a transgender actress?
It’s acting though isn’t it, you don’t have to really be what you’re playing in real life. This is why I don’t get the people who say “there’s plenty of actual X actors who could’ve played that role!” It’s acting - pretending is sort of the idea. By that logic the only guy fit to play Captain Hook would be Abu Hamza.
 

Gambit

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It’s acting though isn’t it, you don’t have to really be what you’re playing in real life. This is why I don’t get the people who say “there’s plenty of actual X actors who could’ve played that role!” It’s acting - pretending is sort of the idea. By that logic the only guy fit to play Captain Hook would be Abu Hamza.
No argument from me there. Just wondered as with the recent Sia autism thing on twitter.
 

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I've never understood why emphasis on gender is important, what does it matter? Can't being a person be an acceptable thing without caring about pro nouns and all the other bits?

I don't mean to disrespect anybody I just don't understand it and hoping someone can explain what's so important?
 

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Ban Shapiro is taking this well.
Elliot is already taller, more masculine, better looking and has a deeper voice than him and all he has done so far is change his pronouns. Of course he is upset.
 

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I've never understood why emphasis on gender is important, what does it matter? Can't being a person be an acceptable thing without caring about pro nouns and all the other bits?

I don't mean to disrespect anybody I just don't understand it and hoping someone can explain what's so important?
You should feel pretty lucky that you don’t find it important in a way. You haven’t had to struggle through life realising that you’re not who you’ve been born as, you’re not as society sees you or refers to you as.

Little things like being called he instead of she or referred to as they/them instead of her mean absolutely everything to someone who wants to be accepted and treated as who they really are.