Afghanistan
- Thread starter Sherzad
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
OK a simple question.
Will the US and or UK send in ground troops to push the Taliban back or will they just evacuate who want to leave and then just leave.
Will the US and or UK send in ground troops to push the Taliban back or will they just evacuate who want to leave and then just leave.
One of the main draws of the Taliban (and acceptance of their national rule from 96-01) in Pashtun tribes was/is their judicial/dispute resolution services. Even post 2001 they have been providing it in many regions. This is vital for tribal disputes, who want a national/overarching authority to stop tribal disputes turning into chaos. Under the Afghan government you needed bribes etc to even get seen.
How many of you have actually been to Afghanistan? I ask this question honestly. No offense meant.
3 Tours
it must have been tough out there, I suspect you know more about the situation that 99% on here.
Cheers, what sort of air support would you say, just helicopters to overseas the ecavuation ?
US have taken control of the ATC in and out of Kabul, according to news channels
Not sure what the point of any military action by the US/UK would be now, especially if Kabul is taken over peacefully.
Thank you. Was it at Kandahar? I have been there and I am not an American or a European.
Perhaps not there ... but I'd guess the army has been given quite a lot of equipment over the last 20 years the taliban will be happy to take... and given they have hardly put up a fight I suspect most of that's in tact?@sun_tzu There's not much useful there. Americans destroyed most HMV. Lots of beer though
Could never go myself. Too many links to Israel for anything positive to come of it. (Which is really sad for me personally, because Iranian history and culture is one of my favourite things, but I can never go visit probably...) Closest I got was one of the 'Stans. (Obviously not Pakistan) I'm far out from that world these days though. I live a privileged and peaceful life.
Ps. for a bit of 'fun' about how fecking incompetent the UK government are. There are people in Afghanistan (yesterday and today) denied UK re-entry because they haven't been able to book a Covid quarantine hotel from as it's on the covid red list. Unless you're on an official list or come RIGHT NOW they refuse to repatriot you. Think they are mostly fine though, making alternate arrangements (With other countries) which should work as long as they get out ok. Foreign office full of feckwits.
Stop interfering with tribal cultures be it in education, spirituality, or folklore. They've survived for centuries and will do without modernisation and interference. Don't pressure, coerce, force or try to change their ways of living, cultures and assuming our understanding of life is the only correct way.
This pompous narrative has become quite common among the ruling elites, media and social media over the last couple of decades. It's worth noting people and different cultures have happily survived thousands of years without modernity. Afghanistan is no different. The interference of Russians, then Americans, Pakistan, Arabs, Indians, Chinese all want a piece of the action and in the process caused havoc on the people of Afghanistan.
This pompous narrative has become quite common among the ruling elites, media and social media over the last couple of decades. It's worth noting people and different cultures have happily survived thousands of years without modernity. Afghanistan is no different. The interference of Russians, then Americans, Pakistan, Arabs, Indians, Chinese all want a piece of the action and in the process caused havoc on the people of Afghanistan.
Afghan government delegation to travel to Qatar today to meet with Taliban representatives
The official surrender of power ?
My last tour was 2012 and our duty on this tour was training the Afghan National Security Forces.
A lot can change in the 9 years since I’ve been there, and I’m sure a lot has changed with its hideous corruption.
It’s ashame too see what’s happening now, but anyone that has served out there would have told you that all the work we’ve done over there will be lost when we leave.
I was proud of what we achieved though, during our time there (not just mine but in general the 20 years our forces were there ) I’ve seen schools built and young Afghans getting educated, hospitals becoming better equipped and modernised, nothing compared to our standards of course but huge steps forward for their standards, bustling street markets returning etc etc that happened because we were there and for the most part the locals mostly welcomed it (not all though of course)
It is a Country, I feel, littered with extraordinary people, good people, but will never be allowed to express that side of them because of their corrupt shambles of a Government (who’s government isn’t corrupt though hay?) and an oppressive ruling regime such as the Taliban constantly battling it out
there is no hope there sadly
Yep. Humvees, armored cars, grenades, guns etc. Just not tanks, missiles, and heavy artillery etc. That's the stuff that was mostly evacuated/destroyed. Will be intere
CAS phase over once evacuations are complete. Expect Chinese named and Israeli styled AOC's to continue. To what end, who knows.
The Taliban already have representatives at the Afghan Presidential Palace.
So about this Biden press conference last month...
He'll get criticized for that, but in fairness there was no way of knowing Afghan forces would abandon their positions as rapidly and comprehensively as what ended up happening. Most thought this would play out over the span of a few weeks/months not days.
I don't think anyone would have gone in and rubbed democracy on them if the tribal culture hadn't provided a haven for Al Qaeda, who then chose to commit terror abroad. No one was interested in expending resources to stop a tribal way of life or their customs. The problem is, once entire cities were razed to the ground in war, the NATO through their own internal member pressure, felt an obligation to rebuild to some extent. The only way they knew to rebuild was in form of democracy.
Its not like the NATO intentions were always bad, however like they say, the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Says who? You think the US intelligence agencies had "no way" of knowing this?
What if those tribal cultures are extremely harmful to LGBT people and women?
That would be a Yes, since they are the ones who brief Biden and his staff. Moreover, the general sentiment across the board was that this would drag out a bit longer because the big cities wouldn't capitulate so easily.
It's the sadness and pointlessness of all foreign intervention really.
The financial and strategic interests of a tiny group of elite are advanced, at the expense of the lives of soldiers and countless civilians.
The only way I could see to turn Afghanistan into the state the USA wanted it to become was for US forces to remain there for more than a century until generation after generation only knew life under US occupation.
It saddens me that so many extraordinary people have lost time, efforts, their livelihoods and obviously worst of all their lives, for something that always seemed doomed to failure. I hope that the lesson learned from this is that these sorts of military interventions are never justifiable and should never be repeated.
According to Biden they didn't even reach the conclusion that the Afghan government will collapse at all. See 3:15. Interesting. Are they shit at their job or is Biden lying?
Things in Afghanistan weren't particularly best served by the Iraq invasion. At the time, there were about 12k troops in Afghanistan, which needed more to finish the job quicker and leave. Those troops were diverted to fight in Iraq, which made Afghanistan largely a forgotten war during the Iraq war years (2003-11).
Quality control
That's utter BS though.
Obviously the President of the United States painting a bleak picture would only exacerbate the loss of morale by those fighting on the ground. Either way, Biden will now have to deal with his own decision (initiated by Trump) to leave Afghanistan.
LGBT and women have existed forever within those cultures for centuries. Visit Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, or other Muslim cultures and you'll find them openly living and in most cases thriving. This is the agenda and narrative I am talking about being pushed. if you're old enough I'm am sure you'll know the enlightened West were a lot more anti-LGBT just a few decades back.
Yes, there will be groups and individuals who are against LGBT but that is also the case in most countries around the world.
Are you Pashtun? You seem to have a very traditional view of the 'state' - Ie. stay out of our tribal business unless there's a cross tribal dispute to resolve. Let us have our guns and do our own thing. Don't overtax us. Lead us against foreign forces but don't do much else. We keep our honour/prestige at all costs.
If you've followed this thread this question has been answered. The so-called Al-Qaeda was invited by the US to fight the Russians and radicalised in the process. They were not then let back to their countries of birth. They made their home in Afghanistan. The terror committed abroad was not by the Afghans.
I am sure not many had ever heard the word Al-Qaida or even ISIS prior to 9/11 or even if these groups existed. These groups were created by a political landscape created over the last 20/25 years. Greed, control of resources, mistakes by policymakers and narrative creators, and those with racist and religious agendas for their political careers or beliefs.
Yeah, but I just don't think there ever really was a 'finishing of the job' possible (depending on what 'the job' was).
If it was killing high value Al Qaeda members / killing Bin Laden, then that was probably always going to be impossible since most entered Pakistan within a month of the invasion.
If the job was destroying the Taliban, they could have captured all Taliban held areas fairly easily (and I mean they basically did), but unless they were prepared to stay in occupation indefinitely until no Afghan remembered anything other than US rule, then the current result always seemed like an inevitability.
If you're cynical (like I am), and think 'the job' was different to the official rhetoric and something closely tied to the financial and strategic interests of a small elite, then yeah, they have been served and despite some regrettable externalities now they did a great job in that respect.
So...Afghan women's concerns are exaggerated? The Taliban will allow them to thrive and live freely? How should I interpret this post of yours?
Do you have anything against the Pashtuns having a traditional opinion?
That doesn’t really answer what he asked though.
Interestingly, the Trumpidiots in my social media feeds think this wouldn't occur if he were still in the office.
No, why would I? That's a very strange reaction to my comment. It's just a very specific take (and not widely held one) on the functions of the state which you seem to share, which is why I was asking your background.
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If committing terrorism abroad is justification for a military occupation, then there are going to be a lot of capitals that need to be bombed. Do you think we should we start with the biggest offenders like Washington and Riyadh, or start smaller with Jakarta and Tehran and just move our way up?