[bosnian_red]

What is "his age group" exactly? Because he certainly hasn't been more productive than Yamal/Doue/Cherki/Gittens/Barcola//Savinho/Wirtz in in any of the last 2 seasons.

His age group is people who are aged 20 or under. Because he is 20, obviously. And looking at all competitions, because there are multiple competitions that count, and league difficulty obviously plays a role and the Premier League is a MUCH more difficult league than any of the other top leagues so it's the only way to balance it. And they're all competitive games and all stats that are tracked so why wouldn't you?

This season he is 3rd on 21 goal contributions, Gittens has 17. The only 2 ahead of him this season are Lamine Yamal and Doue.

Last season at 19, he was 2nd with 17, behind Savinho who had 21, ahead of Tel, Lamine Yamal, Cherki and Doue.

In 22/23, he was 18, so we look at 18 and below... He was 4th/5th/6th. Evan Ferguson on 13, Moukoko on 13, Cherki on 11, Garnacho, Gavi and Gnoto on 10.

Side note - transfermarkt seems slightly inconsistent but they're probably picking players who were a certain age at the first game. Cherki is a year older but his birthday is mid August so he probably shows up on some lists due to an early season start before his birthday and not on this season as I'd guess their first game was after his birthday. Not sure on the others' birthdays.

Either way - every year makes a big difference at this stage in their careers and physical development. Garnacho has broke through during a tumultuous period at the club, and has been top 3 of his age group or below every year since he came through, and he's done it in the premier league at one of the lowest scoring clubs, not a settled club with a good attack.

 

[The Hilton]

Good thing he's 20 and has back to back seasons as one of the top 3 productive players of his age group or younger though. Any reasonable, sane human would say it's safe to say that someone with his level of productivity will be ok.

Any reasonable, sane human would recognise that your use of "productive" is quite misleading. You're talking total goals and assists, leaving out how much more he plays than plenty of other players of his age group or younger. If we used per 90 productivity, he'd be much lower in the standings.

Similarly, if we define productivity as his goals and assists vs his own opportunities, it's a poor return. He has a poor rate of return from his shooting, creates very little despite receiving the ball in advanced positions an awful lot, etc.

 

[The Hilton]

Phew I'm glad I have proof that you have something against him by lying about what I said :

What I said was -
"Garnacho is becoming a one of the worlds best at cut back crosses so for you to say that he is rubbish at crossing shows how one sided you are."

Thanks mate, I can go to sleep now knowing i was right.

Given he's in the bottom 37% of crossers in the league, you really shouldn't be getting much sleep.

 

[SonOfFergie]

His age group is people who are aged 20 or under. Because he is 20, obviously. And looking at all competitions, because there are multiple competitions that count, and league difficulty obviously plays a role and the Premier League is a MUCH more difficult league than any of the other top leagues so it's the only way to balance it. And they're all competitive games and all stats that are tracked so why wouldn't you?

This season he is 3rd on 21 goal contributions, Gittens has 17. The only 2 ahead of him this season are Lamine Yamal and Doue.

Last season at 19, he was 2nd with 17, behind Savinho who had 21, ahead of Tel, Lamine Yamal, Cherki and Doue.

In 22/23, he was 18, so we look at 18 and below... He was 4th/5th/6th. Evan Ferguson on 13, Moukoko on 13, Cherki on 11, Garnacho, Gavi and Gnoto on 10.

Side note - transfermarkt seems slightly inconsistent but they're probably picking players who were a certain age at the first game. Cherki is a year older but his birthday is mid August so he probably shows up on some lists due to an early season start before his birthday and not on this season as I'd guess their first game was after his birthday. Not sure on the others' birthdays.

Either way - every year makes a big difference at this stage in their careers and physical development. Garnacho has broke through during a tumultuous period at the club, and has been top 3 of his age group or below every year since he came through, and he's done it in the premier league at one of the lowest scoring clubs, not a settled club with a good attack.

After Amorim came I thought he was done here. Didn't suit the system at all, attitude issues etc. He turned it around if we look at this. Better suited and better attitude. One big big issue I have is his conversion rate. He shoots he scores, quite good shooting technique but also quite inconsistent with shooting. But he is absolutely dreadful when 1:1 with keeper. That chance at that point in time vs Bilbao could have costed us big time. You absolutely have to put those away. No excuses. He had time to feint keeper, go past him but he froze/didn't think quickly enough. And this is a constant occurrence with him and I think will not get better with age. Looking through his age group perspective G/A contributions in last few years were still good though. I would keep him at the club but not as automatic starter. I think he would be more effective as a second half sub and also needed for rotation. If we plan to use Amad as offensive wingback then you have Garnacho, Mount, Zirkzee, Bruno and Cunha if he will come here all able to fill two AMC slots. If we plan to use Bruno in CM that leaves at least 4 players for two positions so totally fine. And you still need to figure out what to do with Mainoo.

 

[bosnian_red]

Any reasonable, sane human would recognise that your use of "productive" is quite misleading. You're talking total goals and assists, leaving out how much more he plays than plenty of other players of his age group or younger. If we used per 90 productivity, he'd be much lower in the standings.

Similarly, if we define productivity as his goals and assists vs his own opportunities, it's a poor return. He has a poor rate of return from his shooting, creates very little despite receiving the ball in advanced positions an awful lot, etc.

I'm not bothered about play time, because him being seen as good enough to have a real impact at his age is a big positive whatever the case, while most youngsters don't play because they aren't capable of having any impact at all. So no it's not misleading, it's just putting the facts down that he has achieved those things since he started playing at professional level, while others in his age group have not. If they were good enough to do it, they would play more and get to a point where they might do it.

In terms of finishing, yeah this season is a bit of a fluke for him. Hopefully it doesn't become a trend. He was pretty close to his xG the 2 previous years across all competitions, this season he is way behind. Is that a surprise that he's over thinking things when the club is struggling and too much pressure is placed on him? Is it a surprise that a 20 year old has had some bad periods of decision making? If it is a surprise for you, then to be blunt you must not have followed football for a long time, because this is the most common thing to happen to young players when too much pressure is placed on them.

Garnacho and this club need someone to lead the line and be a reliable scorer, to take the pressure off him and to aid his own development, and the development of all the other elite talents we've butchered the past 10 years. He shouldn't be relied on to start literally every single game because nobody else can stay fit, which means he also can't give his best impact. We shouldn't be in a situation where nobody at this club apart from the guy who will be our starting CM can score somewhat reliably for 2 years now. It puts far too much pressure on the young players. Despite that though, he's done well with his productivity.

The perfect role for Garnacho next season would be being the "3rd #10". First off the bench, competing for a spot, but not necessarily starting every single game as we'd have Amad and hopefully Cunha ahead of him, along with a proven scorer at the #9. He'd be able to have a huge role as an impact sub, get starts when he's in form, be kept out when he's off form, and then develop properly. Why wouldn't anybody want him in that role?

 

[The Hilton]

Honestly I think he's been overplayed this season. Even now he needs to rest, I know he'll be involved in the next 2 games before the final, but I think he should at least sit out for 1. I think he's actually faster than what we'd been seeing recently but he's been over played and he hasn't even realized it yet. Technically I think he'll have some improvement but he's never been a tricky winger, what makes him dangerous is that he's been always very direct and his initial acceleration is great. His top speed has always been questionable but that initial burst is something he's always used well.

He has been overplayed. no doubt, and his fitness, availability, and hard work are to be commended. I've been consistent on this, I think he's a great example of a young professional. He just isn't good enough, and his failings are in areas I can't see him getting much better.

As for what you claim makes him dangerous, I have to disagree. For starters, his initial acceleration is weak in my opinion - it's part of why he's so bad at dribbling and getting past players. He is very direct, I agree, but generally it's been detrimental to us, resulting in him shooting from silly positions, ignoring (or more likely not knowing the positioning of) better placed teammates, and losing the ball so often he's in the bottom 6% in the league for it.

 

[The Hilton]

I'm not bothered about play time, because him being seen as good enough to have a real impact at his age is a big positive whatever the case, while most youngsters don't play because they aren't capable of having any impact at all. So no it's not misleading, it's just putting the facts down that he has achieved those things since he started playing at professional level, while others in his age group have not. If they were good enough to do it, they would play more and get to a point where they might do it.

In terms of finishing, yeah this season is a bit of a fluke for him. Hopefully it doesn't become a trend. He was pretty close to his xG the 2 previous years across all competitions, this season he is way behind. Is that a surprise that he's over thinking things when the club is struggling and too much pressure is placed on him? Is it a surprise that a 20 year old has had some bad periods of decision making? If it is a surprise for you, then to be blunt you must not have followed football for a long time, because this is the most common thing to happen to young players when too much pressure is placed on them.

Garnacho and this club need someone to lead the line and be a reliable scorer, to take the pressure off him and to aid his own development, and the development of all the other elite talents we've butchered the past 10 years. He shouldn't be relied on to start literally every single game because nobody else can stay fit, which means he also can't give his best impact. We shouldn't be in a situation where nobody at this club apart from the guy who will be our starting CM can score somewhat reliably for 2 years now. It puts far too much pressure on the young players. Despite that though, he's done well with his productivity.

The perfect role for Garnacho next season would be being the "3rd #10". First off the bench, competing for a spot, but not necessarily starting every single game as we'd have Amad and hopefully Cunha ahead of him, along with a proven scorer at the #9. He'd be able to have a huge role as an impact sub, get starts when he's in form, be kept out when he's off form, and then develop properly. Why wouldn't anybody want him in that role?

I disagree with your opening conclusion. Garnacho is playing a lot this season because we have nobody else due to injuries and a thin squad. By your own admission in your third paragraph, he's played as much because nobody else can stay fit.

With regard to his finishing, you're putting it all down to decision making, which is a shallow analysis. He's racked up a high xG by taking lots of pot shots, as well as his admittedly very good ability at being on the end of big chances. But his finishing is poor due to a combination of his poor physical attributes, and poor technique, both of which allow defenders to recover and pressure or dispossess him. So no it isn't a surprise to me, but not because I haven't been watching football, rather that I'm not watching it through a lens of romanticism.

You're also suggesting Garnacho is the only player apart from Bruno who can score reliably, but that's exactly the point, Garnacho doesn't score reliably. He's wasted more big chances than any of our other players this season, and is 12th in the league for big chances missed. Amad has more goals in the PL than him this season, despite having played a lot less.

I agree that Garnacho's ideal role is from the bench, he's more effective against tired defenders. The reason anybody may not want him in that role is likely because of better options, given how poor he is at shooting, dribbling, creating chances, crossing, etc. He'll do in that role for now, but he'll need to improve dramatically or we'll need to look to replace him.

 

[Ollie Derbyshire]

I disagree with your opening conclusion. Garnacho is playing a lot this season because we have nobody else due to injuries and a thin squad. By your own admission in your third paragraph, he's played as much because nobody else can stay fit.

With regard to his finishing, you're putting it all down to decision making, which is a shallow analysis. He's racked up a high xG by taking lots of pot shots, as well as his admittedly very good ability at being on the end of big chances. But his finishing is poor due to a combination of his poor physical attributes, and poor technique, both of which allow defenders to recover and pressure or dispossess him. So no it isn't a surprise to me, but not because I haven't been watching football, rather that I'm not watching it through a lens of romanticism.

You're also suggesting Garnacho is the only player apart from Bruno who can score reliably, but that's exactly the point, Garnacho doesn't score reliably. He's wasted more big chances than any of our other players this season, and is 12th in the league for big chances missed. Amad has more goals in the PL than him this season, despite having played a lot less.

I agree that Garnacho's ideal role is from the bench, he's more effective against tired defenders. The reason anybody may not want him in that role is likely because of better options, given how poor he is at shooting, dribbling, creating chances, crossing, etc. He'll do in that role for now, but he'll need to improve dramatically or we'll need to look to replace him.

Surprised he made it as a footballer, maybe someone will buy him as a CDM or Martinez style CB if we’re lucky or we should just cancel his contract and let him find a new career.

 

[Eplel]

it's part of why he's so bad at dribbling and getting past players

He's not bad at dribbling and getting past players. If you want people to take you seriously, try to overexaggerate.

 

[Quagmaguire]

How is that bullshit? A team isn’t going to go a whole season without scoring are they. Teams that get relegated still have players that score and assist, some even do so at a decent rate.


With all due respect this is crazy talk imo. Pedro was good enough to start for what is the best team of all time in my opinion (Barca 2010/11).

Pedro was extremely intelligent, could use both feet, good dribbler and was a deadly finisher. In Barcelona he played his role to perfection and then went to Chelsea and showed there was more to his game and could translate his skills to the PL.

Before thinking he can surpass Pedro’s level he needs to prove he can surpass someone like Walcott. That is what I think his ceiling is. A pacey non dribbler that can finish.

Pedro stats season by season at Chelsea in his prime

7-2
9-9
4-2
8-2
1-1

This is Pedro in his prime. Garnacho may not reach Pedro's level when playing for the best team of all time in Barcelona - but United won't ever reach the level of Guardiola's Barcelona either & Garnacho will be proportional to both our seperate team level ceilings to what Pedro was to Barcelona.

Easy peasy.

Garnacho has beaten 2 of seasons of prime Pedro at Chelsea already at the age of 20.

Also Walcott had a

10 - 2 season that's better than 2 of Pedro Chelsea's seasons

A 5-2 season that was better than Pedro's 4-2 season.

Walcott wasn't even in his prime compared to bloody Pedro.

All these foreign players get super hyped up in foreign leagues and soon as they come and fail in the PL they get excused or their PL performances get forgotten.

Pedro was a good important player but easily replaceable for Barcelona at the same time, no one would be putting him on the level of Xavi, Busquets, Puyol, Messi, Villa, Iniesta, Alves - he was just bracket a bit below & that's perfectly fine because you can't routinely build a team of 11 messis.

Likewise I regard as Garnacho as a good sometimes underrated player because of how little quality we have - a Pedro playing in a team without Messi's & Iniesta but will also be in a bracket below the top level.

Offers for Garnacho should be considered if matching his valuation but some people are putting his valuation down by chucking him under the bin like he is some worthless fish at the age of 20.

It's really weird. A professional footballing team considered him to be worth 60 million and I've got to believe some random person that Garnacho is actually worth less because he is at the level of Dan James & Walcott?

No thanks, I will believe Napoli & Chelsea's valuation of Garnacho more so than some random person with limited footballing knowledge!

 

[Quagmaguire]

Given he's in the bottom 37% of crossers in the league, you really shouldn't be getting much sleep.

Do you only work for FBREF?

It's like you got no eyes on your face during a match but just watches maths from FBREF?

Do you not see that FBREF is the last 365 days? Do you not see how a player can improve in the last 3-5 months and it not effecting fbref reports because there's a 365 day period?

My lord some of these people have a young IQ as Garnacho

 

[Rossa]

There are plenty of people who are 20 who it's safe to assume won't make it in the PL.

Him being young means there's some things he can improve, like decision making, but he isn't going to improve his acceleration, nor become much better technically, which are key areas holding him back.

So sprinters should stop training as they have reached their peak at 20? Considering uou reach your physical peak at around 25, there is reason and evidence to suggest he can improve in these areas. It depends on his dedication.

That being said, I think it’s more about timing than pure speed. He has a tendency to go full pelt all the time. Any physical defender can just fall back and will thus always be a favourite to win the duel. He’s not the best at maintaining his top speed, but that can also be improved on.

 

[The Hilton]

Do you only work for FBREF?

It's like you got no eyes on your face during a match but just watches maths from FBREF?

Do you not see that FBREF is the last 365 days? Do you not see how a player can improve in the last 3-5 months and it not effecting fbref reports because there's a 365 day period?

My lord some of these people have a young IQ as Garnacho

I don't think you're in any position to be throwing around IQ insults, given that your argument boils down to using the eye test over stats because the stats show you to be wrong.

 

[The Hilton]

He's not bad at dribbling and getting past players. If you want people to take you seriously, try to overexaggerate.

He absolutely is bad at it, there's no exaggeration. His dribbling success rate in the premier league is 32%, which puts him in the bottom 18% of all players in the league when it comes to dribbling.

It isn't about taking me seriously, I'm simply laying out the facts.

 

[The Hilton]

So sprinters should stop training as they have reached their peak at 20? Considering uou reach your physical peak at around 25, there is reason and evidence to suggest he can improve in these areas. It depends on his dedication.

That being said, I think it’s more about timing than pure speed. He has a tendency to go full pelt all the time. Any physical defender can just fall back and will thus always be a favourite to win the duel. He’s not the best at maintaining his top speed, but that can also be improved on.

Obviously not, but physically developed sprinters will be training more for marginal gains, rather than revolutionising their speed. You can't just train to be Usain Bolt, there has to be the natural talent to harness.

It may be partly about timing, but I'd suggest it's more acceleration and poor technique. He has to go full pelt because defenders will easily beat him from a standing start.

 

[Dominos]

Another big chance missed at the back post today.

What has actually happened to his finishing, was it this bad last season? He's missing a sitter per game.

 

[soapythecat]

His game has gone backwards under Amorim and I worry he will be sold in order to facilitate a system that will continue to fail.
He does ok in the 10 position but he clearly ain’t suited to it. If we played with wingers, he’d be one of our best players.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

His first touch is dreadful a lot of the time.

 

[MadDogg]

His game has gone backwards under Amorim and I worry he will be sold in order to facilitate a system that will continue to fail.
He does ok in the 10 position but he clearly ain’t suited to it. If we played with wingers, he’d be one of our best players.

He was poor this season under ETH as well, playing as a winger. In fact probably his best form this season came about two months ago under Amorim, but unfortunately he's dropped back off again recently.

 

[Quagmaguire]

I don't think you're in any position to be throwing around IQ insults, given that your argument boils down to using the eye test over stats because the stats show you to be wrong.

But you completely bypassed the fact that your stats was about 365 days and not his improvement of crossing under Amorim.

So when someone who uses stats gets stats wrong then that's a big problem.

 

[Zumbi]

But you completely bypassed the fact that your stats was about 365 days and not his improvement of crossing under Amorim.

So when someone who uses stats gets stats wrong then that's a big problem.

You claimed he was becoming one of the best in the world at cut back crosses when in reality he's gone from a 1/10 to about a 3/10 when it comes to crossing.

 

[Pughnichi]

Genuinely shocked he was fast tracked from the reserves

Somewhat surprised with his initial positive impact looking forward to him developing

But he just isn’t the answer is he. Yes he’s young. Yes he has time to develop further. But will he? He’s such a frustrating player to watch.The problem being that similar to Rashford, there as yet, still hasn’t been any noticeable progression. Will it happen next season? 26/27? Or based on his current lack of progression, has he peaked early? How long do we wait?

And no he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch today. Just the top of the player performance forum unfortunately

 

[The Hilton]

But you completely bypassed the fact that your stats was about 365 days and not his improvement of crossing under Amorim.

So when someone who uses stats gets stats wrong then that's a big problem.

They aren't though, you assumed FBREF, I've been quoting stats that are just for this current season, from the likes of FootyStats, Opta Analyst, Statsmuse, fotmob, among others.

So when someone tries to ignore and falsely discredit stats because it paints a player they like in a bad light then that's a big problem.

 

[soapythecat]

He was poor this season under ETH as well, playing as a winger. In fact probably his best form this season came about two months ago under Amorim, but unfortunately he's dropped back off again recently.

We was good last season. Had some really good moments coming off the wing.

 

[MadDogg]

We was good last season. Had some really good moments coming off the wing.

Only in the second half of the season. People forget he was poor right up until the Boxing Day match against Aston Villa when he was moved over to the right. From that point on he was mostly good although still somewhat inconsistent (which is to be expected at that age).

So really, in the last two seasons he's only had about half a season of fairly consistent good form. The rest of the time he's mostly struggled, bar a small patch of decent form under Amorim a couple months ago.

 

[soapythecat]

Only in the second half of the season. People forget he was poor right up until the Boxing Day match against Aston Villa when he was moved over to the right. From that point on he was mostly good although still somewhat inconsistent (which is to be expected at that age).

So really, in the last two seasons he's only had about half a season of fairly consistent good form. The rest of the time he's mostly struggled, bar a small patch of decent form under Amorim a couple months ago.

He’s spent half of this season playing g a role he’s not comfortable in yet doing it under the scrutiny of playing for United.
Will be a real sickner to see him sold because he has so much potential playing out wide.

 

[Eplel]

He absolutely is bad at it, there's no exaggeration. His dribbling success rate in the premier league is 32%, which puts him in the bottom 18% of all players in the league when it comes to dribbling.

It isn't about taking me seriously, I'm simply laying out the facts.

Is that the same stat that shows that Sancho is a better dribbler than Isak, Palmern and Cunha? Try watching football instead of mindlessly quoting meaningless stats.

 

[Zumbi]

He’s spent half of this season playing g a role he’s not comfortable in yet doing it under the scrutiny of playing for United.
Will be a real sickner to see him sold because he has so much potential playing out wide.

Unless the money is used to buy a better, more consistent player who offers more than potential. If that happens then it’ll be a net gain.

 

[soapythecat]

Unless the money is used to buy a better, more consistent player who offers more than potential. If that happens then it’ll be a net gain.

No, we will waste money on another 10 or a WB that will be deemed surplus to requirements when we revert to a back 4 formation under a new manager. Amorim is done at this club and buying him players is just hindering the club further.

 

[The Hilton]

Is that the same stat that shows that Sancho is a better dribbler than Isak, Palmern and Cunha? Try watching football instead of mindlessly quoting meaningless stats.

Sancho's success rate is equal to Palmer's, and both are a little bit ahead of Isak and Cunha. I'm sure you meant that as some kind of gotcha, but I'm really not sure what it was meant to be.

The "watch football not stats" argument belongs in a smokey pub in the 90s, it's just as outdated, but the eye test shows exactly the same with Garnacho - he very rarely beats a man on the ball, as he's physically outmatched by most defenders he comes up against, and he doesn't have good enough technique to make up for it. And he's miles behind all the names you mentioned for dribbling.

 

[Eplel]

@The Hilton watch football. Nobody here thinks you're smart because you regurgitate stats that you don't understand.

 

[Zumbi]

No, we will waste money on another 10 or a WB that will be deemed surplus to requirements when we revert to a back 4 formation under a new manager. Amorim is done at this club and buying him players is just hindering the club further.

We’re not buying him players. We’re buying players for the club because our current players aren’t good enough. Amorim may or may not be here this time next year, and whether we buy the right players is down to the new personnel and structure above him.

 

[The Hilton]

@The Hilton watch football. Nobody here thinks you're smart because you regurgitate stats that you don't understand.

Quite the ad hominem attack.

Stats are very useful, as everyone watches football through tinted glasses, it's great to have a way to check if the conclusions drawn from watching are accurate.

You evidently prefer to stick with those conclusions no matter what. Which is fine, just a bit medieval. But when your entire argument is that stats are bad because they contradict your opinion about a player you like, well then you have no argument at all.

 

[Eplel]

Quite the ad hominem attack.

Well, you set yourself up for it very well.

Your argument says that Sancho is a better dribbler than Isak,do you stand by those stats?

 

[Cassidy]

His game has gone backwards under Amorim and I worry he will be sold in order to facilitate a system that will continue to fail.
He does ok in the 10 position but he clearly ain’t suited to it. If we played with wingers, he’d be one of our best players.

I don’t agree with this to be honest. He is often in dangerous positions under Amorim and is often our most dangerous player. The formation isn’t going to change his finishing, final ball or decision making.

Under Amorim his defensive contribution has gone up a lot. Hes had a tough season (even before Amorim showed up) hopefully its just a blip and he can get back to his best next season. Either way I can see the improvements in his overall game (pressing, tracking back etc) and hes even making good passes and better decisions of late too. If he can fix his finishing he’ll be a hell of a player.

 

[The Hilton]

Well, you set yourself up for it very well.

Your argument says that Sancho is a better dribbler than Isak,do you stand by those stats?

Sancho has been marginally more effective with his dribbling than Isak - they've both had exactly the same number of successful dribbles, Isak has attempted 6 more. While Sancho is in the bottom 36% of players for being dispossessed, Isak is in the bottom 12%.

Last season however Isak's dribbling success rate was over 60%, putting him in the 72nd percentile, which was fantastic and better than Sancho has ever managed in the PL. So better is quite difficult to choose at the moment, but it's accurate to say that Sancho has been slightly better at it this season.

Garnacho's dribbling stats don't have the same nuance though, they're always awful. He's in the bottom 18% in the league for successful dribbles this season, the bottom 26% last season, and the bottom 15% for the season before that. He's in the worst 6% for being dispossessed this season, the worst 18% for last season, and the worst 9% for the season before that. He's very consistent, and it's consistently rubbish.

It's possible you think he's a good dribbler because he does have a high number of successful dribbles. But that's misleading because he attempts dribbles more than the vast majority of players, so his ratio is poor. It's a great example why relying on just watching football and ignoring stats can lead you to draw inaccurate conclusions, as someone who likes Garnacho is likely to remember the successful ones but not the much higher number of unsuccessful ones.

 

[Cassidy]

Sancho has been marginally more effective with his dribbling than Isak - they've both had exactly the same number of successful dribbles, Isak has attempted 6 more. While Sancho is in the bottom 36% of players for being dispossessed, Isak is in the bottom 12%.

Last season however Isak's dribbling success rate was over 60%, putting him in the 72nd percentile, which was fantastic and better than Sancho has ever managed in the PL. So better is quite difficult to choose at the moment, but it's accurate to say that Sancho has been slightly better at it this season.

Garnacho's dribbling stats don't have the same nuance though, they're always awful. He's in the bottom 18% in the league for successful dribbles this season, the bottom 26% last season, and the bottom 15% for the season before that. He's in the worst 6% for being dispossessed this season, the worst 18% for last season, and the worst 9% for the season before that. He's very consistent, and it's consistently rubbish.

It's possible you think he's a good dribbler because he does have a high number of successful dribbles. But that's misleading because he attempts dribbles more than the vast majority of players, so his ratio is poor. It's a great example why relying on just watching football and ignoring stats can lead you to draw inaccurate conclusions, as someone who likes Garnacho is likely to remember the successful ones but not the much higher number of unsuccessful ones.

This cannot be a serious post. Watch football please. None of Sancho successful dribbles lead to any threat. Isak is by far the better dribbler this season and last

Stop getting lost in stats, they only provide context

 

[Eplel]

This cannot be a serious post. Watch football please. None of Sancho successful dribbles lead to any threat. Isak is by far the better dribbler this season and last

Stop getting lost in stats, they only provide context

Just ignore him, he's an unserious poster. Anyone who claims to be interested in and understands data, takes "survivorship" bias into account. A player who moves into more dangerous positions will not look as successful in the database as say Sancho or Bissaka, who nobody even bothers to mark tightly.

 

[The Hilton]

This cannot be a serious post. Watch football please. None of Sancho successful dribbles lead to any threat. Isak is by far the better dribbler this season and last

Stop getting lost in stats, they only provide context

Consider your disbelief reflected, this is such shallow reasoning. Can you back up your claim that none of Sancho's successful dribbles lead to any threat? Preferably with something other than that being what you remember from watching him.

We're getting off topic anyway, this thread is about Garnacho, and the eye test and the stats tell the exact same story; he's among the worst players in the league for dribbling; he rarely beats his man, and loses the ball incredibly often.

 

[The Hilton]

Just ignore him, he's an unserious poster. Anyone who claims to be interested in and understands data, takes "survivorship" bias into account. A player who moves into more dangerous positions will not look as successful in the database as say Sancho or Bissaka, who nobody even bothers to mark tightly.

You still haven't come up with an actual rebuttal, just an old-man-yells-at-clouds style rant about ignoring stats, which devolved into ad hominem attacks. That puts you a long way away from being the arbiter of what constitutes a "serious poster".