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Glorio

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Sociedad are 80/1 to win by 4 goals or more, it's very unlikely to become a nervy night regardless of who starts in utd's weakest position.
Of course the bookies make those odds based on the likelihood that we'd put in a competent side - so yes, if we approach the game professionally, it's very unlikely. I suppose I'm saying let's keep it that way for the first 45 mins.
If we turned up to the game with the U23 side for instance (that's an extreme for effect of course), I'm sure those odds would change dramatically very quickly.
Edit:
Sorry missed your weakest position point!
 

luke511

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They’re 80/1 to win. What are the odds against them scoring twice? Or getting an early goal? Because we can have a nervy night and still win.
We'll call one goal difference nervy territory, that's still 30/1 even after the possibility of a weakened team has been priced in. I'm just saying these situations are notorious for giving youth players a start, vs 34 year old Monreal at LB this will be one of the best opportunities for Diallo this season.
 

Glorio

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That’s certainly the cowardly approach to the game. This sounds like something Jose would say/do. You can do both, approach the game professionally, and play a potential wonder kid too.
If Ole decides to play him, fair play. I'd actually be excited, however, if he decides to air on the side of caution and start him in the second half - that's a full 45 mins - it would make perfect sense to me. It's pragmatic, it's sensible, but not cowardly as all.
 

luke511

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Of course the bookies make those odds based on the likelihood that we'd put in a competent side - so yes, if we approach the game professionally, it's very unlikely. I suppose I'm saying let's keep it that way for the first 45 mins.
If we turned up to the game with the U23 side for instance (that's an extreme for effect of course), I'm sure those odds would change dramatically very quickly.
Edit:
Sorry missed your weakest position point!
The possibility of us playing a weakened side has already been priced in..
 

Glorio

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What a load of crap, we can play 10 other first teamers and use a young winger. Their LB is nacho monreal, he’s hardly big strong and quick. Amad will deal with him fine, it’s just ole being overly cautious as usual.
The old "I don't agree with you so I'll write off your opinion as rubbish as I'm the fount of all football wisdom", well done to you Sir.

Each to his own I guess. For me, it's perfectly sensible if the manager decides to play with experience for the first half. Amad getting a good 45 mins would still be a very decent run out. Not sure what would be so terrible with that
 

Adam-Utd

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The old "I don't agree with you so I'll write off your opinion as rubbish as I'm the fount of all football wisdom", well done to you Sir.

Each to his own I guess. For me, it's perfectly sensible if the manager decides to play with experience for the first half. Amad getting a good 45 mins would still be a very decent run out. Not sure what would be so terrible with that
Playing a team of kids? Sure. Playing 1 18 year old who’s already played in a CL and Serie A match? I don’t think it’s risky at all.

if we lose 5-0 at home with a few Changes I’d be absolutely shocked personally.
 

the_cliff

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Playing a team of kids? Sure. Playing 1 18 year old who’s already played in a CL and Serie A match? I don’t think it’s risky at all.

if we lose 5-0 at home with a few Changes I’d be absolutely shocked personally.
It's actually funny. Not just any 18 year old, kid a 37 million pound one. Imagine not trusting him to start a game that we have a 4 goal advantage. If he doesn't start this game when do you start him ? I'm sure we didn't spend 37 m on an u23 player.
 

Adam-Utd

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It's actually funny. Not just any 18 year old, kid a 37 million pound one. Imagine not trusting him to start a game that we have a 4 goal advantage. If he doesn't start this game when do you start him ? I'm sure we didn't spend 37 m on an u23 player.
That’s what I’m saying, he’s had 3 reserve matches to get match fitness, this is the least pressure match we could possibly give him. If he doesn’t get a chance now then when?

away to palace? Chelsea? City? Leicester?

It’s not like our current wing options are world class either. It’ll probably be mata instead which is a bit frustrating.
 

sglowrider

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If Ole was smart, he would spend more time on the Caf learning how to strategise, set up teams and learn how to manage players from the many geniuses here. But Ole, he just too dumb to recognise that.

Ole Out.
 

ShinjiNinja26

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Hopefully gets a decent amount of minutes against Sociedad on Thursday night. Very exciting young talent by the looks of it.
 

mav_9me

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If Ole was smart, he would spend more time on the Caf learning how to strategise, set up teams and learn how to manage players from the many geniuses here. But Ole, he just too dumb to recognise that.

Ole Out.
Yep. Let's shut down this forum. No point giving opinions on what Ole should do. He knows best. Why we talk abt things I have no idea.
 

the_cliff

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Good idea since 80% of most threads will inevitably land up about being Ole.
Well, he is the Manager and key decision maker and I assume he's the person in charge of team selection and tactics. I'm not sure what you expect, more threads about Nicky Butt, Michael Carrick ?
 

Hoof The Ball

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A four goal lead, consisting entirely of away goals, is about the optimal environment for Amad to get some serious minutes. Even if Ole had it in mind to start him I don't suppose he'd say it publicly for two reasons:

1. Letting the media know he's going to start would permit the media to create a narrative which could provide a psychological disadvantage to a player perhaps already nervous about getting his first start and impressing.

2. It might not be helpful for Amad to know days ahead of time about being selected for the first team. Too many days with that in mind could ramp up the pressure in his own mind and possibly affect his training in the lead up to the occasion.

I think Ole is playing it down because he knows he'll give Amad either starting minutes or the entirety of the 2nd half and he wants him to experience that with as little anxiety as possible.
 

bosnian_red

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That’s what I’m saying, he’s had 3 reserve matches to get match fitness, this is the least pressure match we could possibly give him. If he doesn’t get a chance now then when?

away to palace? Chelsea? City? Leicester?

It’s not like our current wing options are world class either. It’ll probably be mata instead which is a bit frustrating.
Probably next season when he's physically more ready to handle men's professional football. We didn't buy him as a player who had experience in the first team elsewhere. He pretty much only had experience in youth teams. He's played an hour of total first team football over a year. He has huge potential, but physically players have to be ready to handle it. Whether it's stamina, strength, work rate, whatever. The jump from reserves to senior level is huge and players have to be ready for it. If Ole feels he physically isn't ready for it, he won't do it. Look how much Greenwood has grown since the start of last season until now. He got eased in until he could handle it more.
 

P-Nut

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45 minutes against Sociedad is a good next step for him. Towards the end of the season when we're hopefully secure in the top 4 he will likely get starts and then be in the rotation for next season.

Plus, James has been excellent lately and deserves to carry on his run in the side. Expect Greenwood to start as well and hopefully DvB can give Bruno a rest
 

Adamsk7

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He won’t start and neither will Shoretire. I do expect one of them (probably Amad) to get at least 30 minutes in the second half.
we still need to be professional and respect our opponents because they are a good team and a couple of quick goals from them could change the tie quite easily. Get a 0-0 at half time or even a goal up to completely kill the game and then let the boys have a run out.
 

Adam-Utd

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Probably next season when he's physically more ready to handle men's professional football. We didn't buy him as a player who had experience in the first team elsewhere. He pretty much only had experience in youth teams. He's played an hour of total first team football over a year. He has huge potential, but physically players have to be ready to handle it. Whether it's stamina, strength, work rate, whatever. The jump from reserves to senior level is huge and players have to be ready for it. If Ole feels he physically isn't ready for it, he won't do it. Look how much Greenwood has grown since the start of last season until now. He got eased in until he could handle it more.
This isn't the premier league, and Sociedad are hardly a big strapping Tony Pulis side.

His direct opponent is Nacho Monreal, who was hardly a physical specimen at his peak, let alone being 34 years old.

I get Ole LOVES to be cautious about nearly everything, but I think we can afford to give Amad a start. Is he really any less physically capable than Dan James or Mata?
 

bosnian_red

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This isn't the premier league, and Sociedad are hardly a big strapping Tony Pulis side.

His direct opponent is Nacho Monreal, who was hardly a physical specimen at his peak, let alone being 34 years old.

I get Ole LOVES to be cautious about nearly everything, but I think we can afford to give Amad a start. Is he really any less physically capable than Dan James or Mata?
Yes for sure he is less physically capable than James. Dan James is fast as feck, can run all day, is used to getting fouled all the time and is really fit physically so he can handle it. He's quite strong too. And Mata is in his 30's, he is at the end of the career and has been playing with men for a long time. Playing youth too soon can be a risky thing as they can get kicked around and injuries can come up very quickly if they aren't physically ready to be kicked around. Shoretire for example only played a few minutes but seemed nowhere near being actually ready for normal game time from a physical perspective. You need aggression, bravery, and the strength. Comes with time.

For what it's worth, I think he'll start Diallo and sub him off after an hour for Shoretire as long as we arent being embarrassed. But there's nothing wrong with being cautious, and Ole has generally been very good about giving youth chances when they're ready.
 

Adam-Utd

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Yes for sure he is less physically capable than James. Dan James is fast as feck, can run all day, is used to getting fouled all the time and is really fit physically so he can handle it. He's quite strong too. And Mata is in his 30's, he is at the end of the career and has been playing with men for a long time. Playing youth too soon can be a risky thing as they can get kicked around and injuries can come up very quickly if they aren't physically ready to be kicked around. Shoretire for example only played a few minutes but seemed nowhere near being actually ready for normal game time from a physical perspective. You need aggression, bravery, and the strength. Comes with time.

For what it's worth, I think he'll start Diallo and sub him off after an hour for Shoretire as long as we arent being embarrassed. But there's nothing wrong with being cautious, and Ole has generally been very good about giving youth chances when they're ready.
You act like Real Sociedad are Stoke on steriods, they were absolute pussy cats last week. Nacho Monreal is hardly a hatchet man either!
 

bosnian_red

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You act like Real Sociedad are Stoke on steriods, they were absolute pussy cats last week. Nacho Monreal is hardly a hatchet man either!
It is still men and not kids. It's a different game. The promotion isn't straightforward which is why so many fail to step up. It doesn't matter if it's a 2nd league team, it's a bit change from youth level.
 

Mickson

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It is still men and not kids. It's a different game. The promotion isn't straightforward which is why so many fail to step up. It doesn't matter if it's a 2nd league team, it's a bit change from youth level.
Of course, but our kids don't seem to have many troubles in the EFL Trophy. And most of them are even younger than Amad. I can't see the harm in Amad playing here.
 

bosnian_red

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Of course, but our kids don't seem to have many troubles in the EFL Trophy. And most of them are even younger than Amad. I can't see the harm in Amad playing here.
EFL trophy is generally against even lower opposition.

Like I said, I think he'll start. But in general, you can't just throw in kids if they physically aren't ready to handle it. Not just about bulking up, but more about reaching a base level of physicality that they won't be pushed around and made to look like a boy amongst men. So thats why I can see Ole being cautious. Youngsters who break through earlier tend to be early physical developers.
 

Adam-Utd

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EFL trophy is generally against even lower opposition.

Like I said, I think he'll start. But in general, you can't just throw in kids if they physically aren't ready to handle it. Not just about bulking up, but more about reaching a base level of physicality that they won't be pushed around and made to look like a boy amongst men. So thats why I can see Ole being cautious. Youngsters who break through earlier tend to be early physical developers.
Lower leagues in England are usually a lot more physical than European competitions or even the premier league.

Amad is not a little weak kid, he played perfectly fine in the 10 minutes he got in the away leg too. Sometimes we have to stop worrying and just give them a chance.
 

Shimo

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Ole said that neither Amad or Shoretire will start on Thursday, that he wouldn't do that to them. Probably the right thing to make sure the tie is truly over before giving them some minutes.
 

Grande

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You act like Real Sociedad are Stoke on steriods, they were absolute pussy cats last week. Nacho Monreal is hardly a hatchet man either!
What I’d give for a foto of Tony Pulis with a syringe behind a Nach Monreal with a hatchet!:lol:

I think some of us are just too impatient because we love to watch fresh potential. It’s pretty obvious that Solskjær has set up his staff to more than almost any team now or before facilitate the road from youth to grown up football. With people like Kieran McKenna, Nicky Butt and a few others overlapping, it’s clear that most decision are taken with the long term development of the young players themselves in focus. Then of course one can always debate that, but It’s a whole otjer story than Moyes putting his/the teams needs ahead of playe’s developmental needs like Januzaj, or Van Gaal throwing them to the wolves to swim or, mostly, sink, or Mourinho throwing them in the bin or, occasionally, to the press to deflect negative attention from himself.

wenow have a heap of young players playing football in loan deals, and have given two teenagers their debuts, one of which is our second youngest debut in the PL era. Note that Solskjær has two of the top three places on that list, while even Ferguson has none. We all know who has the top place and why.

Ed. Apologies for horrid mobile phone spelling and syntax.
 

TheRedHearted

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Of course the bookies make those odds based on the likelihood that we'd put in a competent side - so yes, if we approach the game professionally, it's very unlikely. I suppose I'm saying let's keep it that way for the first 45 mins.
If we turned up to the game with the U23 side for instance (that's an extreme for effect of course), I'm sure those odds would change dramatically very quickly.
Edit:
Sorry missed your weakest position point!
So if we put out our strongest side and I put down 100- I’ll get 8,000?
 

luke511

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What I’d give for a foto of Tony Pulis with a syringe behind a Nach Monreal with a hatchet!:lol:

I think some of us are just too impatient because we love to watch fresh potential. It’s pretty obvious that Solskjær has set up his staff to more than almost any team now or before facilitate the road from youth to grown up football. With people like Kieran McKenna, Nicky Butt and a few others overlapping, it’s clear that most decision are taken with the long term development of the young players themselves in focus. Then of course one can always debate that, but It’s a whole otjer story than Moyes putting his/the teams needs ahead of playe’s developmental needs like Januzaj, or Van Gaal throwing them to the wolves to swim or, mostly, sink, or Mourinho throwing them in the bin or, occasionally, to the press to deflect negative attention from himself.

wenow have a heap of young players playing football in loan deals, and have given two teenagers their debuts, one of which is our second youngest debut in the PL era. Note that Solskjær has two of the top three places on that list, while even Ferguson has none. We all know who has the top place and why.

Ed. Apologies for horrid mobile phone spelling and syntax.
The impatience has more to do with us all waiting to see a natural right winger again after 5 or 6 years of players like Lingard and Mata doing a weak job there. The pressure is down to the people that decided to sign two equally inexperienced 18 year olds to fill our weakest position after all this wait, not the fans.
 

Mainoldo

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Ole said that neither Amad or Shoretire will start on Thursday, that he wouldn't do that to them. Probably the right thing to make sure the tie is truly over before giving them some minutes.
Do what to them? It’s not a high pressure match. Just okay one of them fro frig sake. Giving them 5-10 mins isn’t benefiting nobody.
 

Glorio

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So if we put out our strongest side and I put down 100- I’ll get 8,000?
I was quoting an earlier post which had already established that the bookies had it 80/1 for Real Sociedad to win by 4 goals or more. I was reasoning that those odds would assume we'd play a competent side with decent experience - which would make such a heavy loss unlikely. Definitely not odds on just team selection, even if the wording of my post may have suggested that! :lol:
 

We need an rvn

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Do what to them? It’s not a high pressure match. Just okay one of them fro frig sake. Giving them 5-10 mins isn’t benefiting nobody.
Playing in the UEFA cup isn't a high pressure match for a 17 year old who's about to make his first start for United - It is. It's learning to manage big game nerves. Learning what happens when you play at Old Trafford for the first XI, not a match at U23 or U18.

I agree giving them 5-10 minutes won't benefit them in the sense they get much physically out of the game, nor give them time to actually get into the game. But getting those first minutes in a United shirt etc will mean more to them and give them a bit more confidence next time they're called into the first team on match day.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Why are people getting wound up about a game that hasn't even been played yet?

Call me old fashioned but I'd wait for the manager to make a bad decision before getting upset about it :lol:
 

bsCallout

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Yes for sure he is less physically capable than James. Dan James is fast as feck, can run all day, is used to getting fouled all the time and is really fit physically so he can handle it. He's quite strong too. And Mata is in his 30's, he is at the end of the career and has been playing with men for a long time. Playing youth too soon can be a risky thing as they can get kicked around and injuries can come up very quickly if they aren't physically ready to be kicked around. Shoretire for example only played a few minutes but seemed nowhere near being actually ready for normal game time from a physical perspective. You need aggression, bravery, and the strength. Comes with time.

For what it's worth, I think he'll start Diallo and sub him off after an hour for Shoretire as long as we arent being embarrassed. But there's nothing wrong with being cautious, and Ole has generally been very good about giving youth chances when they're ready.
James is not strong at all. & Not sure where this obsession with Amad not being ready physically comes from. Hes not shown anything to suggest he can't handle a physical game.

And what on earth did you see from Shoretire to suggest he's not ready either?