[pogs]

He clearly looked not fully fit. I’ll give him a benefit of doubt this time.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Eh? We saw what we saw. Flat footed, unable to make an impact and ultimately subbed off for a left back when we needed a goal.

Yeah that was done because Shaw at the end was getting tired and overrun. Ole went for the draw. But don't let agenda see you that.

We struggled when we put him on the left and whatever meaningful attack did come in the second half came from the left. He didn't have a great game , but he did work hard but with Martial it doesn't matter here.

 

[MadMike]

Eh? We saw what we saw. Flat footed, unable to make an impact and ultimately subbed off for a left back when we needed a goal.

He was shit no doubt, but I think by the time he got subbed off (89') Ole had kinda give up on winning it and was trying to hold off Everton who were by far the more threatening in the last 10'.

 

[acnumber9]

I’m glad we didn’t risk him today. It wouldn’t have been worth taking the chance of him needing to take more days off.

 

[L1nk]

I know he'll have his fanboys till the day he leaves, even then there will still be a lot of Martial FC about i'm sure. I just can't personally see him ever hitting that top drawer that his talent clearly gives him the ability to be able to, it's just constant flashes of ability followed by complete lack of effort, drive and basically awfulness. Maybe it's because of the way we set up, maybe its because Rashford is injured, point is if he is as talented as people say he is he shouldn't need these things to show it on a consistent basis.

 

[MikeKing]

He is so frustrating. I want to love him blindly but he is just too inconsistent and it's starting to annoy me. Maybe we should just play him against teams that wont put up a fight, I don't know.

 

[Bastian]

He is so frustrating. I want to love him blindly but he is just too inconsistent and it's starting to annoy me. Maybe we should just play him against teams that wont put up a fight, I don't know.

Which teams are those? I don't remember playing those teams after Fergie retired.

 

[MikeKing]

Which teams are those? I don't remember playing those teams after Fergie retired.

Europa league games mostly from the look of things. League is very competitive. I think if Martial played in Italy or France he'd be considered world class by now. I hope we keep him but we need someone that doesn't drop below 7 every other game.

 

[Raven]

He is so frustrating. I want to love him blindly but he is just too inconsistent and it's starting to annoy me. Maybe we should just play him against teams that wont put up a fight, I don't know.

Behave. He's had plenty of good performances against top teams who pit up plenty fight. The first time he hasn't scored in 4 games yet you're jumping straight on his back. He's currently being played out of position, replacing Rashford while he's out but he's not as good at being Rashford. He's quite clearly a central link player, if he doesn't play there, he isn't as good. You'll notice that the same thing happened when Rashford was being played in Martial's position.

 

[MikeKing]

Behave. He's had plenty of good performances against top teams who pit up plenty fight. The first time he hasn't scored in 4 games yet you're jumping straight on his back. He's currently being played out of position, replacing Rashford while he's out but he's not as good at being Rashford. He's quite clearly a central link player, if he doesn't play there, he isn't as good. You'll notice that the same thing happened when Rashford was being played in Martial's position.

Oh, I behave. They are both inconsistent players. If he is going to play that badly, he needs to score or assist for me to rate his performance, that simple.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I know he'll have his fanboys till the day he leaves, even then there will still be a lot of Martial FC about i'm sure. I just can't personally see him ever hitting that top drawer that his talent clearly gives him the ability to be able to, it's just constant flashes of ability followed by complete lack of effort, drive and basically awfulness. Maybe it's because of the way we set up, maybe its because Rashford is injured, point is if he is as talented as people say he is he shouldn't need these things to show it on a consistent basis.

People need to stop using Rashford's injury as an excuse for him. You can't be that dependant on another player. You can't be reduced to utter pointlessness just because your mate is injured.

 

[#CR7]

Even though I love the guy I'm starting to see why he will never be the centre forward that gets us back to the top. He's far too passive in games and doesn't affect the game unless the ball is at his feet.

 

[Raven]

Oh, I behave. They are both inconsistent players. If he is going to play that badly, he needs to score or assist for me to rate his performance, that simple.

I notice you didn't address the positional change. Why is that? Would expect Bruno to be able to do the same job as Matic, or vice versa? They're both midfielders. Martial is not an all action goalscorer or winger, he's a crafty false 9. If you don't like his style, fair enough but his recent consistency issues come from playing Rashford's role.

 

[OL29]

I’m glad we didn’t risk him today. It wouldn’t have been worth taking the chance of him needing to take more days off.

He missed 1 game.... since when was it illegal to get injured?

 

[lenny_1248]

These comments... Pathetic.

 

[Wade3]

These "not fully healthy" is the easiest excuse to throw on for every poor performance. He played nearly the full game. Didn't hear of a player half fit playing more than 85 minutes without complaining of anything, with the approval of the manager and medical stuff. Nonsense, but yeah "agenda". I can call you "apologist" as well.

Except it's not an "easy excuse" but a legitimate case to be made. Plenty of players have played through injuries, especially if a key player in the same or a similar position is missing. It's rather common in professional sports, especially after the performance by Ighalo against Brügge, when he didn't inspire much confidence.

Either way, the guy has scored 3 goals in the previous games, at least wait another game or two before labelling it the "usual Martial" trend.

 

[Jeffthered]

Except it's not an "easy excuse" but a legitimate case to be made. Plenty of players have played through injuries, especially if a key player in the same or a similar position is missing. It's rather common in professional sports, especially after the performance by Ighalo against Brügge, when he didn't inspire much confidence.

Either way, the guy has scored 3 goals in the previous games, at least wait another game or two before labelling it the "usual Martial" trend.

This is the whole issue with Anthony Martial. Who can say that they are surprised from what they saw yesterday? He was poor yesterday, very poor. I actually find it hard to believe that so many , after four years, four years, still, still, still consider Anthony Martial as the No 9 they wish for Manchester United.

He would not be considered as a first choice No 9 at any, any other really competitive club in Europe. Yet some are happy for us to fully accept his ongoing inconsistency and mediocrity.

 

[acnumber9]

He missed 1 game.... since when was it illegal to get injured?

Since when was it illegal to question Anthony Martial?

 

[OL29]

Since when was it illegal to question Anthony Martial?

It’s not, but it’s a bit weird to constantly accuse him of faking injury, he’s hardly the first player to pick up knocks here and there. Do you even celebrate when he scores?

 

[acnumber9]

It’s not, but it’s a bit weird to constantly accuse him of faking injury, he’s hardly the first player to pick up knocks here and there. Do you even celebrate when he scores?

I can’t remember a player that gets injured on the day of games as often as Martial does. That’s a stupid question and doesn’t deserve answering.

 

[Fredo]

I have been criticizing Martial a lot lately because I do expect a lot from him, but yesterday it was evident he wasn't in good form, looked like he was carrying an injury so let's see the next game how he would play...would have loved to see Odion start yesterday especially after he scored against Brugges.

 

[meamth]

3 goals in 4 games and yet suddenly, he is back being shit.

You guys just waiting for this moment.

 

[11101]

Even though I love the guy I'm starting to see why he will never be the centre forward that gets us back to the top. He's far too passive in games and doesn't affect the game unless the ball is at his feet.

Pretty much. He's a very good player but he lacks the drive for the very top. He's not direct enough on the ball and he doesn't demand it when he doesn't have it.

Bruno arriving has pretty much shown exactly what is missing. Every time he gets the ball he's looking to make something happen, and when he doesn't have it he is hunting for space and demanding the ball.

 

[OL29]

I can’t remember a player that gets injured on the day of games as often as Martial does. That’s a stupid question and doesn’t deserve answering.

You’re paranoid. And it’s not a stupid question because posters like you will be silent when certain players are doing well then jump at the first opportunity to berate them. If you were just criticising his performances than fair enough but the constant attacks on his professionalism and commitment makes it seem more deep rooted. So yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if you didn’t celebrate his goals.

 

[Grande]

Even though I love the guy I'm starting to see why he will never be the centre forward that gets us back to the top. He's far too passive in games and doesn't affect the game unless the ball is at his feet.

The last four games is kind of typical of him, good and bad. Very little of what he's been trying has succeeded. With his lack of proactive movements, he creates very few openings for himself or others. See Bruno for the diametrical opposite. Yet he has scored three goals with sublime pieces of skill, decidong goals in matches we've gotten good results. At the same time, compare the amount of chances Odion Ighalo gets to compared to him, despite being new to the team and semi-new to football.

The frustration with Martial is that four six years, he's looked like a useful player in a mediocre team, who could become a world beater if he just sharpens his attitude and learns to see opportunities before they are presented to him.

 

[abk92]

3 goals in 4 games and yet suddenly, he is back being shit.

You guys just waiting for this moment.

Back to being shit, he's always been shit since his first season.

Scoring goals doesn't void him of criticism. His overall performance in games is beyond pathetic, he's a passenger in almost every game he plays in.

 

[acnumber9]

You’re paranoid. And it’s not a stupid question because posters like you will be silent when certain players are doing well then jump at the first opportunity to berate them. If you were just criticising his performances than fair enough but the constant attacks on his professionalism and commitment makes it seem more deep rooted. So yeah, it wouldn’t surprise me if you didn’t celebrate his goals.

I’m not. I support Man United not Martial or any other player. It’s no more deep rooted than not liking a player that clearly doesn’t always give their all to win. Take your amateur psychology elsewhere.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

I just don't think he has the drive to make it truly at the top level. I think what we're seeing with Martial is his ceiling, a 15 or so goal a season forward who turns up as and when he sees fit. He's nowhere near our biggest problem or most pressing issue, though.

 

[Jeffthered]

3 goals in 4 games and yet suddenly, he is back being shit.

You guys just waiting for this moment.

Sorry, but this is not a fair comment. Martial is hardly having some amazing season.

The continued questions about him, reflect his career.... not his current form, or last four or five games. And that is something about him, no one else. Other managers have stated the same things, and questioned his longer-term application and consitency. The National coach binned him.

I have little doubt that Martial will score a couple of great goals between now and the end of the season. But in-between those moments... ? Is Martial thinking 'I am going to fire us to the Top Four, see if we can catch Leicester... I am going to do all I can as the No 9 to make that happen....'. Can you see that in his game, his application?

And there lies his problem.

An inflated ego; a limited player who has actually won very little. He leaves United, and where does he go? Who will pay the wages we are paying him? For maybe 15 league goals a season.

He has all the physical attributes, but his mentality, week in, week out... that is extremely questionable, and that is the frustration. How must Greenwood feel watching that?

 

[OL29]

I’m not. I support Man United not Martial or any other player. It’s no more deep rooted than not liking a player that clearly doesn’t always give their all to win. Take your amateur psychology elsewhere.

Given your posts in this thread, you can hardly blame me for wondering if that’s really the case. I’ll take your word for it though.

 

[Chicharito_]

3 goals in 4 games and yet suddenly, he is back being shit.

You guys just waiting for this moment.

I've always been Martial FC but can see where posters are coming from, he's either giving a 7/10 performance or a 2/10. He rarely goes out there and is unplayable from the first minute scores 2+ goals and makes you leave the game thinking "wow". He gives you glimpses and can be good but never great and the problem is when he's bad he's invisible.

 

[spiriticon]

If Martial doesn't score, he is shit.

It really is that black and white with him because he operates on a completely different wavelength to the rest of the team.

I've said this before that either he makes runs into spaces nobody sees, or he doesn't make the run into the space that everybody sees.

 

[Raven]

Sorry, but this is not a fair comment. Martial is hardly having some amazing season.

The continued questions about him, reflect his career.... not his current form, or last four or five games. And that is something about him, no one else. Other managers have stated the same things, and questioned his longer-term application and consitency. The National coach binned him.

I have little doubt that Martial will score a couple of great goals between now and the end of the season. But in-between those moments... ? Is Martial thinking 'I am going to fire us to the Top Four, see if we can catch Leicester... I am going to do all I can as the No 9 to make that happen....'. Can you see that in his game, his application?

And there lies his problem.

An inflated ego; a limited player who has actually won very little. He leaves United, and where does he go? Who will pay the wages we are paying him? For maybe 15 league goals a season.

He has all the physical attributes, but his mentality, week in, week out... that is extremely questionable, and that is the frustration. How must Greenwood feel watching that?

Arm chair psychologist. Perfect.

 

[Jeffthered]

If Martial doesn't score, he is shit.

It really is that black and white with him because he operates on a completely different wavelength to the rest of the team.

I've said this before that either he makes runs into spaces nobody sees, or he doesn't make the run into the space that everybody sees.

This is an incredible post. Anthony Martial is on a different wavelength, oh yes, I agree with that. But to suggest this is in some way, beyond the players around him, well that's daft. His career does not reflect that. We need to be realistic.

This is what we have become over the last few seasons...we as fans, now debate such matters, which really are not changing anything much at all at Man United. We have accepted the average, and this worries me.

 

[spiriticon]

This is an incredible post. Anthony Martial is on a different wavelength, oh yes, I agree with that. But to suggest this is in some way, beyond the players around him, well that's daft. His career does not reflect that. We need to be realistic.

This is what we have become over the last few seasons...we as fans, now debate such matters, which really are not changing anything much at all at Man United. We have accepted the average, and this worries me.

I don't think you understood my post at all. I'm not saying he's smarter than the rest or the rest is smarter than him.

I'm just saying he seems to be doing his own thing most of the time, making runs into random spaces or not making any runs at all where there is a big wide open space. It's not that he's lazy or not running, I think he is running but it seems most of his running is not where the play is happening or is expected to happen. It's rather perplexing.

We generally play as a team of 10 players + whatever Martial is doing. If he feels like it, he'll ghost into play, take on 2 defenders and chip the goalie. If he doesn't feel like it, he could be having a coffee on the sidelines and the team won't know the difference.

 

[L1nk]

3 goals in 4 games and yet suddenly, he is back being shit.

You guys just waiting for this moment.

Nope. It's more like you and a lot of this forum that has these "waiting" moments. Basically, and it's the same with a lot of topics here, if he has a great game, it's Martial FC and he's the best player around, he has a bad game and he's the worst player ever.

People questioning him are questioning him based on his entire career so far, yes he has capable of some goals, and he clearly has incredible talent, but he just never applies it on a consistent level, and hasn't since he has got here. I think it's entirely reasonable to question whether he will hit the actual highs his talents could give him, it's obvious why people question his desire, work rate, his actual effect on the game is overall dire, unless he scores.

For example, in the game the other day, he was absolute garbage throughout the entire match, but people are clearly putting that to the side because he scored that 1 great chip effort over the keeper, people need to look at the bigger picture here, but they don't. It's all black and white, he scored a goal so all is well and that's all there is to say, when it doesn't paint the whole picture.

 

[Bobcat]

Nope. It's more like you and a lot of this forum that has these "waiting" moments. Basically, and it's the same with a lot of topics here, if he has a great game, it's Martial FC and he's the best player around, he has a bad game and he's the worst player ever.

People questioning him are questioning him based on his entire career so far, yes he has capable of some goals, and he clearly has incredible talent, but he just never applies it on a consistent level, and hasn't since he has got here. I think it's entirely reasonable to question whether he will hit the actual highs his talents could give him, it's obvious why people question his desire, work rate, his actual effect on the game is overall dire, unless he scores.

For example, in the game the other day, he was absolute garbage throughout the entire match, but people are clearly putting that to the side because he scored that 1 great chip effort over the keeper, people need to look at the bigger picture here, but they don't. It's all black and white, he scored a goal so all is well and that's all there is to say, when it doesn't paint the whole picture.

Agreed. I was thrilled when we sold Lukaku, because i felt LvG and Jose never gave Martial a fair chance as a CF and i really thought this year was going to be his big breakthrough. That bolded part is spot on. I was actually one of those who thought Martial was being held back by former managers and once he got trust and a run in his best position (as he has done now) we would see his true potential and he would step up with consistent performances to match his talent

We all know hes got very good close control, hes fairly strong and fast and hes a good finisher. The problem with him (when hes poor) is that his movement and positioning is absolutely dreadful. Not saying hes lazy, but the problem is rather when and where he moves.

 

[MikeKing]

I notice you didn't address the positional change. Why is that? Would expect Bruno to be able to do the same job as Matic, or vice versa? They're both midfielders. Martial is not an all action goalscorer or winger, he's a crafty false 9. If you don't like his style, fair enough but his recent consistency issues come from playing Rashford's role.

I don't care. I've seen this player over 5 years I know how he looks when he is on form and what he looks like when he isn't. My expectations of him is based on the player, my comments were too, I didn't feel the need to consider any minor positional change. If Matic was played as a CAM, and did have a bad game like he has from time to time as a CDM, the positional change wouldn't change his performance now would it. It's just an excuse really. We need these players to get better not come up with excuses for why they are fine when they aren't.

I don't think you understood my post at all. I'm not saying he's smarter than the rest or the rest is smarter than him.

I'm just saying he seems to be doing his own thing most of the time, making runs into random spaces or not making any runs at all where there is a big wide open space. It's not that he's lazy or not running, I think he is running but it seems most of his running is not where the play is happening or is expected to happen. It's rather perplexing.

We generally play as a team of 10 players + whatever Martial is doing. If he feels like it, he'll ghost into play, take on 2 defenders and chip the goalie. If he doesn't feel like it, he could be having a coffee on the sidelines and the team won't know the difference.

Good points. But I would add that he is much more involved in games when he is on form. He can be unstoppable at times, and he can be horrible, but your description of him is very appropriate and probably where he's at consistently.

 

[Mainoldo]

Is there a real reason why the fanbase doesn’t like him?

It can’t just be because he’s lazy?

 

[meamth]

Nope. It's more like you and a lot of this forum that has these "waiting" moments. Basically, and it's the same with a lot of topics here, if he has a great game, it's Martial FC and he's the best player around, he has a bad game and he's the worst player ever.

People questioning him are questioning him based on his entire career so far, yes he has capable of some goals, and he clearly has incredible talent, but he just never applies it on a consistent level, and hasn't since he has got here. I think it's entirely reasonable to question whether he will hit the actual highs his talents could give him, it's obvious why people question his desire, work rate, his actual effect on the game is overall dire, unless he scores.

For example, in the game the other day, he was absolute garbage throughout the entire match, but people are clearly putting that to the side because he scored that 1 great chip effort over the keeper, people need to look at the bigger picture here, but they don't. It's all black and white, he scored a goal so all is well and that's all there is to say, when it doesn't paint the whole picture.

I'm not Martial FC either, I think I have fair criticism towards him. What I'm saying is to those who have extreme agenda towards him.

Credits where it's due, criticism when it's bad. Fair arguments I can accept, but extreme over the top comments or insults I can't get along with that.