Shaw was players player of the year in 2 out of 4 seasons, one season he was average in first half with lot of injuries and came back very strongly (Covid season). Last season he was shit.One thing I held against Jose was how he mistreated Martial and Shaw, 3 years after it seems he knew it all along. It would be a miracle if ETH can somehow use Martial, I am not sure he can offer anything.
Of course it played a part, however shit player attitudes also are a big problem, and Martial obviously is one of the biggest culprits.I think the series of shit managers we've had is a big part of why he hasn't developed.
Yes, it was appalling set of management, but Martial did very little to prove him wrong since.Wasn’t Martial in good form when he decided to drop him for Sanchez?
I think he was about many things.Jose can go feck himself. He wasn’t right in the slightest.
Shaw has been one of our best players since Jose left, however years after and still many of the same question marks are yet to be answered.Shaw was players player of the year in 2 out of 4 seasons, one season he was average in first half with lot of injuries and came back very strongly (Covid season). Last season he was shit.
So no, Jose knew feck all and he was wrong, at least about Shaw.
Martial also had his best season after Jose, shame he didn't build on that.
Or posters like you act like Jose's girl friend and keep telling how awesome your boyfriend is/was.Shaw has been one of our best players since Jose left, however years after and still many of the same question marks are yet to be answered.
Jose was pretty fecking spot on about many things, but you act like he shat in you hat and will never admit.
Nobody said he was awesome don't act like a spoilt kid. I just said that it seems he was right about Martial and Shaw, and what is so fecking shocking about that? You are like Jose Inquisition on this forum, nobody can mention him in any kind od semi positive comment, and here you are what a shock.Or posters like you act like Jose's girl friend and keep telling how awesome your boyfriend is/was.
Starts with "Shaw has been one of our best players since Jose left" and then comes with how Jose was right about Shaw.
Then don't make dumb posts, you contradicted yourself in the same post and shocked someone said it's wrong? What a cruel world.Nobody said he was awesome don't act like a spoilt kid. I just said that it seems he was right about Martial and Shaw, and what is so fecking shocking about that? You are like Jose Inquisition on this forum, nobody can mention him in any kind od semi positive comment, and here you are what a shock.
Shaw being one of our best players post Jose and also 3 years after that still demonstrating that he is unreliable is contradicting myself? Yes OK mr smart post, Jose seems to live in your head rent free, Rafa Benitez like cringeworthy.Then don't make dumb posts, you contradicted yourself in the same post and shocked someone said it's wrong? What a cruel world.
At least saying that about Martial would have been half right as he was poor for majority of his time post Jose but adding Shaw is just dumb take.
If Shaw is one of our best player after Jose, how is Jose right? If anything it was Jose who was completely wrong and held him back by playing Young as LB, moaning about Shaw even when he played well.Shaw being one of our best players post Jose and also 3 years after that still demonstrating that he is unreliable is contradicting myself? Yes OK mr smart post, Jose seems to live in your head rent free, Rafa Benitez like cringeworthy.
Shaw and Martial not living up to their potential years on doesn't mean Jose was right at the time to drop them.Nobody said he was awesome don't act like a spoilt kid. I just said that it seems he was right about Martial and Shaw, and what is so fecking shocking about that? You are like Jose Inquisition on this forum, nobody can mention him in any kind od semi positive comment, and here you are what a shock.
Maguire has been one of our best players post Jose, so has Rashford and I can mention 5 others who I would put in the same bunch. Is that good enough? Absolutely fecking not. And yes he was pretty much spot on, Shaw has the potential to be the best LB in the league, it was the same when I defended him back then for the same reasons you mentioned (Young being preferred) however, instead of being on the the few established members of the first team, here we are 2022 and our new manager goes and buys another LB, in a window we need at least 2 midfielders, a forward and our RB options are consisted of Dalot and AWB. I would pretty much say he has been a disappointment.If Shaw is one of our best player after Jose, how is Jose right? If anything it was Jose who was completely wrong and held him back by playing Young as LB, moaning about Shaw even when he played well.
You are like Duncan Castles maybe, too deep in love with Jose, just can't see the reality. Maybe its time to remove those Jose tinted glasses.
We signed LB as Telles is shit, we can't have only one LB in the squad.Maguire has been one of our best players post Jose, so has Rashford and I can mention 5 others who I would put in the same bunch. Is that good enough? Absolutely fecking not. And yes he was pretty much spot on, Shaw has the potential to be the best LB in the league, it was the same when I defended him back then for the same reasons you mentioned (Young being preferred) however, instead of being on the the few established members of the first team, here we are 2022 and our new manager goes and buys another LB, in a window we need at least 2 midfielders, a forward and our RB options are consisted of Dalot and AWB. I would pretty much say he has been a disappointment.
Jose was right about their long term futures here. I was against Jose, and I was wrong, mostly about Martial. Shaw has been better than Martial, yet in my opinion he has failed to establish himself and lots of the same doubts are there to be answered.Shaw and Martial not living up to their potential years on doesn't mean Jose was right at the time to drop them.
If he'd dropped them for far better players who were still here now and performing well then you'd have a point.
Telles being shit is the the best part for Shaw, if he was any better, Luke would have been on the bench. And I like Luke Shaw ( I also though that Telles was going to do much better to be fair)We signed LB as Telles is shit, we can't have only one LB in the squad.
Shaw is pretty much established first team player and like everyone in the team, he had shit season in 2021-22.
But he replaced them with Sanchez and Young. They had no long term future here either. So what was the benefit?Jose was right about their long term futures here. I was against Jose, and I was wrong, mostly about Martial. Shaw has been better than Martial, yet in my opinion he has failed to establish himself and lots of the same doubts are there to be answered.
I felt he mismanaged Martial when we brought it Alexis, and I thought that Martial is one of the guys who needs a softer man management approach, then Ole came in, and he got all the fecking softness in the world, what happened? In different scale the same happened with Shaw. Jose was right about their lack of proper mentality to be here and improve.
And his celebration after every goal he scores will be like it's regulation for him, when his 2 goals will be 8 weeks apart.he will stay here until 2025, leeching 250k per week.
and he will score no more than 10 goals all competitions per season in those 3 years,
He replaced them with what he though was better at the time he was wrong about their replacements footballing qualities, he was probably right about the their mentality, both of them went on to win the Italian league title after leaving us. From this point of view, I do think that if we let Jose to do what he had in mind, we would have been in a better state than we are now. Managers often drop better players and play worse one if they feel the mentality of the said ones is not right.But he replaced them with Sanchez and Young. They had no long term future here either. So what was the benefit?
You can't judge a selection purely on the long term and also exclude who the dropped players were replaced with.
That is exactly what I think should be done. Cultural and attitude issues are hard and difficult rot to clear out after it sets in. We are the epitome of that. Average journeymen coming to the club and happy to just be here to overpaid youngsters who think they have won it all because they are under contract here.Fred for example probably isn't good enough long term. Very doubtful he'll be in the team if/when we get back to the very top.
But that doesn't mean you go and drop him right now for an inferior player. Just because you prefer the inferior players attitide or the inferior player has a bigger rep.
I actually think his talent is overstated.The frustration with martial is that undoubtedly the talent is there. Its not a question of him being good enough its a question of weather he is willing to give enough/sacrifice enough for the cause.
When he turns up he is a monster but most of the time he doesn't turn up he dosent show enough fight enough effort and ends up just drifting through games not doing very much and getting dispossessed far to easily.
Who knows maybe ETH can get him to switch on, but I don't hold out alot of hope.
There are a few players in the squad who deserve a shot under ETH. Fred and Shaw are at least 2 of them. People seem to underestimate the role a manager can have on players. No offence to Ole but his tactics were hardly an inspiration to players and the less said about Ralf the better for whatever reasons.That is exactly what I think should be done. Cultural and attitude issues are hard and difficult rot to clear out after it sets in. We are the epitome of that. Average journeymen coming to the club and happy to just be here to overpaid youngsters who think they have won it all because they are under contract here.
I don't think I'd go as far as "good form" but he was a damn sight more effective than Sanchez.Wasn’t Martial in good form when he decided to drop him for Sanchez?
Martial (and Pogba) were two of the very few players that looked as though they gave a shit in the final dark days of Jose. And yet the fanboys still reckon that it was all the fault of those two.Jose can go feck himself. He wasn’t right in the slightest.
I personally am tired of finding excuses for this lot, there are two constants in this triangle of players, managers and directors. And we all know Woodward and his pet Judge are not good enough, managers also failed, however these group of players have consistently underperformed. Jose paid the price for his wrongdoings that does not mean he was wrong about everything.There are a few players in the squad who deserve a shot under ETH. Fred and Shaw are at least 2 of them. People seem to underestimate the role a manager can have on players. No offence to Ole but his tactics were hardly an inspiration to players and the less said about Ralf the better for whatever reasons.
What we know is Shaw can play at a high level and has probably been our most consistent performer the last 4 or 5 seasons. You don't just bin players like that and Fred has shown glimpses that under the right management/system he could be an effective player. You can't get rid of a complete squad in a short space of time. There are a lot more players than Shaw and Fred that need to be looked at first and in time they can be phased out once we get a nucleus of a team together if they don't make the grade under a new manager.
There’s a strong shout that Pogba bought Jose another month or so with that performance against Newcastle. Martial as you say was also playing well at the time.Martial (and Pogba) were two of the very few players that looked as though they gave a shit in the final dark days of Jose. And yet the fanboys still reckon that it was all the fault of those two.
Has a child with a woman, cheats on her then marries the person he cheated on her with. Has a kid with her and then goes and does the same thing again with another woman. The lad is a total rat, pure and simple.With the divorce well behind him now, perhaps Anthony will be able to focus on the pitch again, whoever his employer may be.
Yup. And I actually enjoyed his first season and a half or so.There’s a strong shout that Pogba bought Jose another month or so with that performance against Newcastle. Martial as you say was also playing well at the time.
Any problems with these players is nothing to use as a pro Jose comment. Most players looked shite under Jose because Jose was a complete tit who constantly picked fights with his own players. He threw so much shit at the wall that eventually something would stick. Even broke clocks and all that.
The fact of the matter is the hundreds of digs he made at our players that we don’t hear brought up is simply because most of us are trying to put his dark days behind us, then you have the wannabe sycophants screaming “X HAD A BAD GAME SEE JOSE WAS RIGHT”. Move on, he’s not only gone, he went and failed elsewhere in England and has now had to run off to the Italian mid table.
Anthony's behavior as a human being has been deplorable, which for some reason has been a bit of a problem with a few United players in recent years though to differing degrees (Giggs and Greenwood of course). I would be delighted to never see his face again for that reason as well as his deplorable indifference on the pitch -- poor form is acceptable, but total absence of effort is not acceptable -- but he is on the books and there is inside him a decent footballer. He is unsellable now even on a free because of his insane wages, but because his actions were not criminal there's no legal means that I am aware for United to tear up his contract. So what do we do? If he's willing to work hard and perform, then why not let him do so?Has a child with a woman, cheats on her then marries the person he cheated on her with. Has a kid with her and then goes and does the same thing again with another woman. The lad is a total rat, pure and simple.
Aside from all that, based on his performances over the last 2 years, he should not get another chance at Utd.
Martial FC for youSo many excuses for players who should have nobody to blame but themselves.
Yep - he's 'introverted' is the latest oneMartial FC for you
I'd love for him to, but I think it's going to be hard to top that 19/20 season. He's vilified here at this point, so it's not surprising people forget how good he was that year and especially coming out of lockdown. Legitimately our best player and one of the top strikers in the league. Then he couldn't hit a barn door to start the next season and got hurt which killed all of the confidence he had.In a ETH system can see Martial having the best season of his career so far.
Of course that's providing he can stay fit for the majority of it.
This is bang on.There’s a strong shout that Pogba bought Jose another month or so with that performance against Newcastle. Martial as you say was also playing well at the time.
Any problems with these players is nothing to use as a pro Jose comment. Most players looked shite under Jose because Jose was a complete tit who constantly picked fights with his own players. He threw so much shit at the wall that eventually something would stick. Even broke clocks and all that.
The fact of the matter is the hundreds of digs he made at our players that we don’t hear brought up is simply because most of us are trying to put his dark days behind us, then you have the wannabe sycophants screaming “X HAD A BAD GAME SEE JOSE WAS RIGHT”. Move on, he’s not only gone, he went and failed elsewhere in England and has now had to run off to the Italian mid table.
2 years of poor form isn't just poor form, it's his level. He's regressed so badly during a pivotal developmental stage in his career it's very hard to see how he can reach the levels expected of him of a consistent basis.Anthony's behavior as a human being has been deplorable, which for some reason has been a bit of a problem with a few United players in recent years though to differing degrees (Giggs and Greenwood of course). I would be delighted to never see his face again for that reason as well as his deplorable indifference on the pitch -- poor form is acceptable, but total absence of effort is not acceptable -- but he is on the books and there is inside him a decent footballer. He is unsellable now even on a free because of his insane wages, but because his actions were not criminal there's no legal means that I am aware for United to tear up his contract. So what do we do? If he's willing to work hard and perform, then why not let him do so?
Hard to see, without question. But not impossible.2 years of poor form isn't just poor form, it's his level. He's regressed so badly during a pivotal developmental stage in his career it's very hard to see how he can reach the levels expected of him of a consistent basis.
The idea that he should be given more time to prove he's got what it takes is pure bs in my opinion. He's had enough time and hasn't done enough.
I'd say he is unsellable because he's never really shown anywhere near the form that is deserving of his wages. Nobody would buy him and pay him anywhere near that because of what has he's shown.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date