Antisemitism & Islamophobia

[UpWithRivers]

Never said you were anti-muslim and nobody has said there isn't fundamentalists. You just seem to fail to recognise how rhetoric is used to cause further division and tension and then put all the pressure on non-fundamentalist Muslim people to sort it out.

What rhetoric, what pressure. All that was said was that there are a lot of fundamentalist Muslims and that non-fundamentalist Muslims should do something about it. Just like saying we need to do more about racism in the UK or we should do more about the radical right wing in the US. Whats so bad about that? But no as soon as you even mention that something should be done about the fkrs its all attack attack attack.

 

[SilentWitness]

What rhetoric, what pressure. All that was said was that there are a lot of fundamentalist Muslims and that non-fundamentalist Muslims should do something about it. Just like saying we need to do more about racism in the UK or we should do more about the radical right wing in the US. Whats so bad about that? But no as soon as you even mention that something should be done about the fkrs its all attack attack attack.

Ok. Enjoy listening to more Brigitte Gabriel and taking all information at face value.

You've honed in completely on your bubble that you're not listening to anyone and think nothing is being done.

https://mcb.org.uk/resources/muslims-against-terrorism/

 

[UpWithRivers]

Ok. Enjoy listening to more Brigitte Gabriel and taking all information at face value.

You've honed in completely on your bubble that you're not listening to anyone and think nothing is being done.

https://mcb.org.uk/resources/muslims-against-terrorism/

Well finally you getting at the truth of the matter. These are the groups that I was talking about. If you stop bitching and moaning that everyone is out to get you maybe more of these groups can be supported and the fundamentalist's can be addressed and a better and more peaceful world can be had for Muslims.

 

[fergieisold]

What rhetoric, what pressure. All that was said was that there are a lot of fundamentalist Muslims and that non-fundamentalist Muslims should do something about it. Just like saying we need to do more about racism in the UK or we should do more about the radical right wing in the US. Whats so bad about that? But no as soon as you even mention that something should be done about the fkrs its all attack attack attack.

I think 25% may be quite an over estimate - but I agree with her general point. I do feel sorry for normal peaceful muslims, but this isn't a reason to shy away from pointing out that Islam is a problem.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

@UpWithRivers You mentioned whataboutism before, but I think it's fair to ask what you think about percentages of fundamentalists, both religious and secular, there are in society? 25% as well?

 

[SilentWitness]

Well finally you getting at the truth of the matter. These are the groups that I was talking about. If you stop bitching and moaning that everyone is out to get you maybe more of these groups can be supported and the fundamentalist's can be addressed and a better and more peaceful world can be had for Muslims.

Ok. I'm not the one showing myself up in their posts as a not very nice person who doesn't really understand much about the situation or the nuances. If you don't understand why statistics are important to get right and can't go and find out what Muslims are doing to fight fundamentalism then how can you bleat on about doing something about it because as it stands you're doing nothing yourself aside from looking like a complete thicko.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I think 25% may be quite an over estimate - but I agree with her general point. I do feel sorry for normal peaceful muslims, but this isn't a reason to shy away from pointing out that Islam is a problem.

That is an extremely inflammatory sentence

 

[UpWithRivers]

Ok. I'm not the showing myself up in their posts as a not very nice person who doesn't really understand much about the situation or the nuances. If you don't understand why statistics are important to get right and can't go and find out what Muslims are doing to fight fundamentalism then how can you bleat on about doing something about it because as it stands you're doing nothing yourself aside from looking like a complete thicko.

25 percent. 25 percent. I dont know if its true or not but 25 percent. I think you will have nightmares about 25 percent. Let it go for the love of all things.

 

[fergieisold]

That is an extremely inflammatory sentence

That's just your interpretation, maybe you are confusing criticism of religion with attacking muslim people. Islam, like other religions throughout history, is problematic.

 

[WeePat]

I’m sorry but if you’re posting a right wing lunatic and raging Islamophobe known for stirring up hate against Muslim and then saying she makes some interesting points, you’re not going to convince people that you’re here to argue in good faith.

 

[Wilt]

I saw a Twitter account that said 25% of Jews control 99% of the worlds wealth.

Interesting, concerning, we have to do something about this, they are amongst us.

The first sentence is total bollocks.
Second sentence may as well have been written by Hitler.

Congratulations! ….one of the most racist, alarming posts ever seen on Redcafe.

 

[SilentWitness]

The first sentence is total bollocks.
Second sentence may as well have been written by Hitler.

Congratulations for one of the most racist, alarming posts ever seen on Redcafe.

It's sarcasm based on the posts above.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I’m sorry but if you’re posting a right wing lunatic and raging Islamophobe known for stirring up hate against Muslim and then saying she makes some interesting points, you’re not going to convince people that you’re here to argue in good faith.

I already apologized for not knowing who she was and agreed that she was a nutter even though I know nothing about her. But you don't fight Islamophobia by sticking your head in the sand. If you think she is wrong. Prove it. That's how you fight it. If you are against Trump for instance then argue against him. If you are against Candace Owens argue against her. Anyone. Should we just ignore everyone that doesn't fit into our own world view. Listen to them and prove them wrong.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

The first sentence is total bollocks.
Second sentence may as well have been written by Hitler.

Congratulations! ….one of the most racist, alarming posts ever seen on Redcafe.

It's taking the mickey out of a poster who linked an opinion saying 15-25% of the Muslim population (180m people!) are dedicated to the destruction of Western civilisation. An opinion described as an "interesting point".

 

[kaku06]

The first sentence is total bollocks.
Second sentence may as well have been written by Hitler.

Congratulations! ….one of the most racist, alarming posts ever seen on Redcafe.

Read, understand and then write. He was being sarcastic. Even the tone of that post gave it away.

 

[UpWithRivers]

It's taking the mickey out of a poster who linked an opinion saying 15-25% of the Muslim population (180m people!) are dedicated to the destruction of Western civilisation. An opinion described as an "interesting point".

No I thought it was an interesting point that there is a fundamental problem within the Muslim population and that is the fundamentalists. The 25 percent went straight over my head because I don't care if its 10 percent or 25 percent or 50 percent. I think big picture. The percentage is impossible to prove or disprove. Is there someone there doing surveys? No. Its everyone else that is tripping balls on the 25 percent

 

[kaku06]

Wept. If one person would just explain instead of just attacking without any substance maybe we would get somewhere

The fact that you believed that 25% bollocks straight away is idiotic in itself. That percentage should have been a red herring to you. You may think that the issue is far more serious and alarming than it actually is but to think that 180 millions Muslims are radical and out to get you and the western world is laughable and you thought that she made an interesting point.

 

[UpWithRivers]

The fact that you believed that 25% bollocks straight away is idiotic in itself. That percentage should have been a red herring to you. You may think that the issue is far more serious and alarming than it actually is but to think that 180 millions Muslims are radical and out to get you and the western world is laughable and you thought that she made an interesting point.

See above. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT 25 PERCENT!!!!!! I apologize. I agree. Its not 25 percent. How many times do I have to say it. LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ManUtd1999]

Woman arrested on hate crime charges after allegedly attacking man and his toddler

https://www.cnn.com/nyc-hamas-hate-crime-arrest/index.html

video here:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...her-son-coffee-anti-Palestine-surrenders.html

 

[Giggsy PO]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[fergieisold]

It's taking the mickey out of a poster who linked an opinion saying 15-25% of the Muslim population (180m people!) are dedicated to the destruction of Western civilisation. An opinion described as an "interesting point".

They're not - there's maybe a better estimation of the numbers from Sam Harris in this infamous debate with Ben Affleck!

 

[Wibble]

I saw a Twitter account that said 25% of Jews control 99% of the worlds wealth.

Interesting, concerning, we have to do something about this, they are amongst us.

Please tell us that you are joking.

 

[WeePat]

I already apologized for not knowing who she was and agreed that she was a nutter even though I know nothing about her. But you don't fight Islamophobia by sticking your head in the sand. If you think she is wrong. Prove it. That's how you fight it. If you are against Trump for instance then argue against him. If you are against Candace Owens argue against her. Anyone. Should we just ignore everyone that doesn't fit into our own world view. Listen to them and prove them wrong.

I hear you but you have to accept, in retrospect, that doing that won't foster good debate. If I inadvertently shared the views of one of the biggest antisemitic bigots out there with the accompanying caption 'interesting points' and it was pointed out to me who the person was, I'd apologise for my error and leave it there rather than double down and ask the Jewish members of the site to disprove whatever 'facts' and figures the antisemitic bigot was waffling about.

The problem with trying to disprove the claim is that even if you try and google this, you're flooded with articles from seemingly right wing sites pushing the same narratives as the bigot you posted, so clearly this specific point is a popular topic among that particular section of society.

 

[WeePat]

Please tell us that you are joking.

He was trying to mock @UpWithRivers. It is a sarcastic post.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

That's just your interpretation, maybe you are confusing criticism of religion with attacking muslim people. Islam, like other religions throughout history, is problematic.

Well, this is about islamophobia and anti-semitism, yet you only mention Islamic fundamentalists in your 25%. I assume you believe that 25% of Jews are fundamentalists too.

No I thought it was an interesting point that there is a fundamental problem within the Muslim population and that is the fundamentalists. The 25 percent went straight over my head because I don't care if its 10 percent or 25 percent or 50 percent. I think big picture. The percentage is impossible to prove or disprove. Is there someone there doing surveys? No. Its everyone else that is tripping balls on the 25 percent

See above. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT 25 PERCENT!!!!!! I apologize. I agree. Its not 25 percent. How many times do I have to say it. LET IT GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If not 25%, do you believe Islam has more fundamentalists than any other religion?

 

[Wibble]

He was trying to mock @UpWithRivers. It is a sarcastic post.

That is what I was hoping.

 

[fergieisold]

Well, this is about islamophobia and anti-semitism, yet you only mention Islamic fundamentalists in your 25%. I assume you believe that 25% of Jews are fundamentalists too.


If not 25%, do you believe Islam has more fundamentalists than any other religion?

I didn't support the 25% comment from whoever was ranting on the video posted. Still, it's likely a not insignificant fraction.

 

[UpWithRivers]

They're not - there's maybe a better estimation of the numbers from Sam Harris in this infamous debate with Ben Affleck!

Well Hallelujah! They are saying exactly the same fkn thing as I posted. Its a worthwhile debate even if my source was suspect.
Thank you

 

[UpWithRivers]

I hear you but you have to accept, in retrospect, that doing that won't foster good debate. If I inadvertently shared the views of one of the biggest antisemitic bigots out there with the accompanying caption 'interesting points' and it was pointed out to me who the person was, I'd apologise for my error and leave it there rather than double down and ask the Jewish members of the site to disprove whatever 'facts' and figures the antisemitic bigot was waffling about.

The problem with trying to disprove the claim is that even if you try and google this, you're flooded with articles from seemingly right wing sites pushing the same narratives as the bigot you posted, so clearly this specific point is a popular topic among that particular section of society.

Well thats the difference between me and others on here. I reject bigots and facists but Im prepared to hear their points and debate against it. Thats the only way I believe you can come to an understanding. Otherwise we are just in an echo chamber refusing to listen to anything else
See the Sam Harris Video above. Just proves my point. The actual debate was worthwhile.

 

[Kaos]

@UpWithRivers I'll attempt to debate this with you in good faith.

What exactly do you feel Muslims should be doing to quell the rise of extremism? And by Muslims I'm referring to your average tax-paying, footballing fan who identifies as a Muslim. What do you feel is within their power and outreach to be able to tackle such a thing?

 

[fergieisold]

Well Hallelujah! They are saying exactly the same fkn thing as I posted. Its a worthwhile debate even if my source was suspect.
Thank you

Whether the women in the video you posted is a nut job or not there certainly is a valid debate to be had. Unfortunately it's usually met with head in sand accusations of islamophobia/racism.

The term Islamophobia is ridiculous. It's as if people are in trouble for being wary of intolerance. The paradox is you have people in some sort of never ending attempt to be tolerant now protecting intolerance. It's weird.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

@UpWithRivers do you think that Islam has more fundamentalists than other religions?

 

[SilentWitness]

Whether the women in the video you posted is a nut job or not there certainly is a valid debate to be had. Unfortunately it's usually met with head in sand accusations of islamophobia/racism.

The term Islamophobia is ridiculous. It's as if people are in trouble for being wary of intolerance. The paradox is you have people in some sort of never ending attempt to be tolerant now protecting intolerance. It's weird.

I assume all other terms such as transphobic, homophobic etc. are ridiculous too, yeah?

 

[Kaos]

Whether the women in the video you posted is a nut job or not there certainly is a valid debate to be had. Unfortunately it's usually met with head in sand accusations of islamophobia/racism.

The term Islamophobia is ridiculous. It's as if people are in trouble for being wary of intolerance. The paradox is you have people in some sort of never ending attempt to be tolerant now protecting intolerance. It's weird.

If a Muslim were a victim of a hatecrime on the basis of their faith or perceived 'Muslimness', what would you call that?

 

[UpWithRivers]

@UpWithRivers do you think that Islam has more fundamentalists than other religions?

I dont care and I dont know how to measure it. I just know they are a problem.

 

[owlo]

Perhaps you should look at the religion of most of the people killed by ISIS and then also look at the religion of most of the people who did the grunt work fighting against ISIS?

This is a bit disingenuous. (or simply a vacuous point?) They were victims of circumstance. Had ISIS taken over New York the populations would resist the same way.

ISIS were enabled by diabolical war planning and withdrawal, and civil war.

 

[Peter van der Gea]

I dont care and I dont know how to measure it. I just know they are a problem.

I just find it interesting that in a thread about anti -Jewish and -Muslim rhetoric, you came in here stating that 25% of Muslims, and only Muslims, are fundamentalists.

 

[UpWithRivers]

I just find it interesting that in a thread about anti -Jewish and -Muslim rhetoric, you came in here stating that 25% of Muslims, and only Muslims, are fundamentalists.

No I never

 

[Peter van der Gea]

No I never

It was you who posted the video stating that, right?

 

[UpWithRivers]

It was you who posted the video stating that, right?

I said it was an interesting point. Where is that sentence says that I totally agree and I researched it and its exactly 25 percent and that only Muslims are fundamentalists