Just a thought, if Antony,s and Party,s accusers been British would there be a bigger drive from the media for their immediate suspension?
Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Back in the squad
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Again, my bias towards what?
Arsenal are a fecking disgrace in my opinion. They're just not news apparently. So yes there are elements of the media in this for all the wrong reasons. None of which changes the circumstances.
As for going on about the right thing. Sorry, that's my bag.
You know who else was never punished or proven guilty? Lots of people who are actually innocent.
That Jimmy Saville reference is ridiculous.
On balance, the arguments in this thread that not being found guilty in court means someone is definitely innocent are more damaging than the counter arguments trying to imply that due process is irrelevant and simply being accused should be enough to torpedo someone’s reputation and career (you’re basically Jimmy Saville, right?)
It’s a close run thing though. And both camps need to take a long look at themselves.
No they didn’t, Greenwood was named in the press, the Arsenal player hasn’t, therefore Arsenal can hide behind that instead of doing the right thing and suspending with pay.
United have completely bungled their handling of it, but at least they didn’t play someone while they were on bail for rape.
I'm not talking about guilty in the eye of the law. I'm talking about public perception.
Well it is involving most celebrities. I mean would you consider Mendy innocent even though court didn't find him guilty?
Best post by a distance regarding this topic !
Then that has never been a thing, so once again nothing has changed. People generally believe the things they think are true, for all sorts of different reasons.
Really?
You really think "Now we seem to have swung to the point where the twitter mob are the judge, jury and executioner"
That's part of the best take in your opinion?
If Antony is proven innocent this will have been a painful experience no doubt. Certainly not executed.
If it was me falsely accused. I'd sue whoever did it and hammer them in the press.
It rarely happens.
The fact there are camps is insane.
We have an allegation. And have had since June. Correctly no action was taken.
There seems to be damning evidence to the point the Brazilian FA have acted.
There is pressure on United to act due to the scale of the media gaze, the precedent set by the Brazilian FA and our calamitous handling of the Greenwood situation.
Is anyone actually calling for his head? Very few people are actually discussing the data in hand.
It's mostly outrage about Rachel Riley, Arsenal and how hard it is to be a young man with all the false accusations flying about.
I won't be surprised if the club suspends Antony now, it might be unfair on Antony but the club will have to act in a way that shows that they do not condone DV.
Hopefully the authorities (In Brazil or UK) expedite the process so justice can be served.
Hopefully the authorities (In Brazil or UK) expedite the process so justice can be served.
Is it so involving most celebrities? That now you are guilty even if proven innocent? We have different opinions then, but i guess it comes from what you read.
I have not thought of what i consider Mendy. He is playing football in France now so.
That’s almost the craziest thing in all of this. It’s supposed to be a criminal case. How on earth do the Brazilian FA suddenly seem to have new evidence now that they didn’t have when the story first broke? How on earth do the Brazilian FA have unique access to any evidence that is relevant to a criminal case at all?!
Hard not to assume that there’s a slightly hysterical overreaction going on due to the weight of public pressure being brought to bear, because of this happening so soon after the Greenwood saga. With United likely to make a similar decision before our next match.
Expediting these issues should always be a priority. The damage done in both directions by poisonous and vested discourse is potentially huge.
I don't know what's going on there. They either have evidence they think is worth taking heed of or are trying to make some statement, because as I have said previously Brazil is ranked as one of the worst countries for thd protection of women. It's unusual anyway.
This just all stems from our weak and cowardly CEO.
When you fail to protect your players, mete out punishment on OUR own terms, and not be dictated by outsiders, this is what happens. It opens the door to media and any dickhead taking a shot at us and influencing our club from the outside.
Never imagined we'd fall so far from the days of SAF. Not that the glazers give a toss. They are still happy with a bunch of University of bristol mates continuing to run this club to the ground. Anything but a full change in ownership will see us just continue to spiral into mediocrity and weakness.
When you fail to protect your players, mete out punishment on OUR own terms, and not be dictated by outsiders, this is what happens. It opens the door to media and any dickhead taking a shot at us and influencing our club from the outside.
Never imagined we'd fall so far from the days of SAF. Not that the glazers give a toss. They are still happy with a bunch of University of bristol mates continuing to run this club to the ground. Anything but a full change in ownership will see us just continue to spiral into mediocrity and weakness.
It's not the fecking CEOs fault.
This is a woman who says she was violently assaulted.
To get from that to "any dickhead taking a shot at us" is quite something.
I don't think they do? They are just covering their asses.
We can agree on that. Like you believe nothing has changed, which is fair enough, that's your belief. But I disagree.
That seems likely. Which begs the question, why are they covering their asses after this update hit the wires, but didn’t when the story first broke?
That’s an assumption you’ve made. The far logical assumption is after 3 months the story blew up again with the release of images and WhatsApp messages in the press and Brazil didn’t think it was worth the press attention for a player who doesn’t start for them. The idea the Brazilian FA have suddenly had access to some smoking gun of evidence on the same day the story blew up in the media again seems ridiculous.
what nonsense are you on aboutMeaningless gestures, yes. In the sense that they don't have any tangible positive impact to the club or football or society. It could feel good. It looks good. But it has no impact the way an actual conviction, or an initiative to educate players/people on sexual assault, or an initiative to support victims does. I don't think Partey continuing to play has done any harm in the tangible world. To the contrary, Arsenal benefit from continuing to play him, and they've suffered no atrophy in stadium revenues.
I just looked at Arsenal and United's mission statements and they couldn't be more vacuous.
Most companies will suspend people who have been charged, yes, because the impact on their bottom lines are insignificant. Football players are incredibly more valuable.
My olive branch on this issue is that I would not mind the FA and PL clubs creating a uniform standard by which players accused, indicted and/or convicted of physical/domestic/sexual assault should be charged. Then even if they were just meaningless gestures, there are no arbitrage opportunities for a club without morals to benefit.
You'd think the Brazilian FA/Footballing world would have learnt from the Neymar incident.
But no. Lets repeat history again.
I was referring to the media.
Also, its allegations.
"Woman who says"... Allegations.
Ah the evil media again. So what is the CEO to do? Ban all media outlets unfairly criticising the club? Like who?
What I find most remarkable is people actually expect football clubs and authorities to be moral or legal barometers now.
If Greenwood or Antony or whoever is guilty, the law should deal with it. Similarly, if they are found not guilty, it is not a footballing body's prerogative to make a decision on whether it is morally correct to play them or not. Yet the fact that people expect football clubs to do it is crazy.
I see people having a go at Arsenal regarding Partey but I don't get it. It's not their job to judge his guilt. If he's found guilty he'll be removed by the law from his current employment status. If not, why should they stop playing him?
Quality control
How about not ship out players who have had charges dropped against them?
How about continuing to protect and play players who haven't been found guilty?!
Or does that only apply to other clubs and we have to bend to media/outside pressure!?
Pathetic.
You'd also think the brazilian FA would have learnt from the Neymar incident. But you probably haven't a clue about it. Continue your white knight crusading
Narrowing this conversation to football clubs, your reasons are reasons that Juventus, Arsenal, West Ham, PSG, Lorient, Manchester City, Getafe are somehow yet to grasp as well. I expect some mes un que club reply on the lines of how United are simply bigger.
You're oddly insistent that taking a stand is meaningless.
I think considering the huge amounts of domestic and sexual violence, the fear to report and disproportionately small conviction stats any stand is far from meaningless and I know rape victims who agree. They feel isolated and disguarded every day of their lives because as well as the injury, they see no support in the society in which they live.
As soon as it started getting traction in the UK media they bailed on him. National teams have such a luxury in this kind of instance because regardless of how mad a player might be at them (and if it turns out Antony is innocent I'm sure he will be pissed at the Brasilian FA) he can't exactly move teams.
There is no right thing here.
And as you have said United completely bungled it, they didn't act out of righteous indignation, because they did a u-turn after they faced the possibility of some uproar. If they had immediately terminated MG after the stuff came out then I would be more understanding of the decision, and applauding their lack of dithering, even if I disagreed with us taking such a loss. There's no right way on this, but there's credit in making a stern decision and standing behind it.
But United don't get any credit for this. They were bullied into a decision here (and the statement is so vacuous there are arguments on what it actually means). I'd use the word spineless but I got quality points for using it earlier
Is it possible that they spoke to him and they've decided he couldn't/shouldn't go because there's a possibility he may be arrested and detained in Brazil? Or maybe Antony didn't want to go, just in case that did happen.
You'd have to think there was some dialogue on this.
How about not ship out players who have had charges dropped against them?
How about continuing to protect and play players who haven't been found guilty?!
Or does that only apply to other clubs and we have to bend to media/outside pressure!?
Pathetic.
You'd also think the brazilian FA would have learnt from the Neymar incident. But you probably haven't a clue about it. Continue your white knight crusading
So keeping Mason Greenwood despite the video and audio and no attempt to clarify them would send a message to the media thar we can't he messed with.
I think you'll find if we played Mason Greenwood you couldn't be more wrong. There would be an avalanche of negative media.
I'm only a white knight relative to the sociopaths in the thread.
All I said is the Brazilian FA have put pressure on United to at least make a statement.
Ah the aul refuge in selective nihilism. It's becoming quite common.
The club can't just stay quiet about this, they're going to have to make a statement at least in advance of our next game. They don't necessarily have to suspend him at this point, just say something along the lines of "we note the allegations against Antony and that the player has denied all of them, the matter is currently being investigated by the police and the club will make no further comment until there is any update".
That's better than just hoping it goes away without having to do anything. And Ten Hag is the one who'll be bombarded with questions at his next press conference so at least he can just refer to the club's statement.
That's better than just hoping it goes away without having to do anything. And Ten Hag is the one who'll be bombarded with questions at his next press conference so at least he can just refer to the club's statement.
He was already in Brazil.
Take, for example, this comment of yours:
The lunatic you're talking about here is Leon McCaskre. What you're claiming is that he was trying to kill his ex, Yasmin Chkaifi. This is, in my opinion, an extremely reasonable thing to believe. There were tons of witnesses, after all, and Chkaifi unfortunately ended up dying. Attempting to kill someone is a very serious crime, though, and if you want to consistently apply "innocent until proven guilty" outside of the courtroom then you cannot say that he was trying to kill anyone, or that he stabbed anyone, even though he clearly did. McCaskre was never convicted of anything, and because he is dead he never will be. He is, in the eyes of the law, an innocent man. He is also a murderer.
This is a very clear-cut case, of course. Other cases are less so, or the evidence might not be publicly available, so there's less certainty about guilt or innocence than in McCaskre's case, but that's not because of any legal principle. People are perhaps more likely to believe women in rape and domestic violence cases specifically, but that is a specific change in how people weigh up evidence. It is not a change in people going from "innocent until proven guilty" to not.
A laughable transfer all around from ETH and co.
Paid over the odds for a player that wasn't worth it when no other big team was in for him, didn't need to lure him with crazy wage increase (yet the club did), and now he's a defective character, which is something you'd think the person familiar with him that pushed for the transfer would have known.
If I didn't know better, I'd say there was something else behind the transfer, it's all so fecking stupid, nothing about how it was handled made sense, and that's even before this latest clusterfeck.
Paid over the odds for a player that wasn't worth it when no other big team was in for him, didn't need to lure him with crazy wage increase (yet the club did), and now he's a defective character, which is something you'd think the person familiar with him that pushed for the transfer would have known.
If I didn't know better, I'd say there was something else behind the transfer, it's all so fecking stupid, nothing about how it was handled made sense, and that's even before this latest clusterfeck.
Club Statement
- Manchester United acknowledges the allegations made against Antony and notes that the Police are conducting enquiries.
- Pending further information, the club will be making no further comments.
- As a club, we are taking this matter seriously, with consideration of the impact of these allegations and subsequent reporting will have on survivors of abuse.
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