I think the argument is that he was crap last season too, but was scoring more goals. His overall contribution hasn't really changed. This season you agree he's been rubbish, but if you pick any one of those rubbish performances and change the script to him scoring a goal, that wouldn't make it a good performance. It would still be a crap performance but with a goal.
Are Bruno and Rashford a problem?
- Thread starter The Oracle
- Start date
If you honestly think Rashford is playing anything like the brimming with confidence player of last year, Europe’s most in form forward for a while, I don’t know how to respond to that.
His overall play, as expected when brimming with confidence, was much much better than his crap form this year.
I just find the idea bizzare: That Bruno, one of the best no 10's in the world, is somehow one of the main reasons why we (as a team) play like utter shit.
He’s nothing like the best 10 in the world. He’s not even the best in the PL - he’s a stat merchant that doesn’t reflect his output in the pitch. He does play in a team that’s not set up for his strengths and he struggles.
I think it’s absolutely fine to say that we have too many players in our first eleven that aren’t careful or good enough on the ball and who take many risks, and point to Rashford, Bruno, Garnacho, Højlund and then the likes of AWB, Cas & the centre back pairing (without Martinez). That’s pretty clear.
However, to blame it mostly on one or two players is absolutely bizarre to me. All the top non-Guardiola sides have at least 1-2 “maverick” player who take more risks on the ball and if you aren’t gonna play like Pep, you need that. It’s always been a thing in football and always will be.
For me we were clearly more balanced in this regard with Eriksen, Martinez & Antony in the starting eleven last season.
If we get to a stage where we can claim 8-9 out of our outfield 10 are excellent at keeping possession and that 1-2 players keep fecking things up I’d get that, but that’s not the case at all.
You’d expect considering they are the problem that both would stick out like sore thumbs in the pass completion stats, but there’s often several players worse than them at keeping the ball each week (or on a very similar level) and in areas that you’d expect much better ball retention if you wanna build up control of a game.
Take the last week for example when we’ve had the following pass completion stats in our first 11:
Brentford:
Onana 39%, Højlund 72%, AWB 79%, Bruno 81%, Dalot 83%, Rashford 95%
Chelsea:
Højlund 61%, Mainoo 71%, Garnacho 71%, AWB 74%, Dalot 81%, Maguire 82%, Bruno 83%.
Liverpool:
Onana 59%, Cas 69%, Maguire 72%, Bruno 75%, Garnacho 77%, Mainoo 78%, Rashford 81%.
If we had an opportunity to sell one but not both it's a really close call. Rashford is the worse performer, but we have a locked and loaded for Bruno in Mount. We should look to sell both and trust that Garnacho will continue to develop and hope for the best for Antony, who can't be sold, and Amad, who's very promising but is no guarantee of success.
With the roughly 100m we should be able to get for the sale of Rashford and Bruno plus the 20m we should be able to get for Sancho plus the other 100m we should have in the transfer budget we should be able to do some good work this summer. But letting Rashford and Bruno go should be a priority to allow INEOS to begin a serious rebuild of the squad.
With the roughly 100m we should be able to get for the sale of Rashford and Bruno plus the 20m we should be able to get for Sancho plus the other 100m we should have in the transfer budget we should be able to do some good work this summer. But letting Rashford and Bruno go should be a priority to allow INEOS to begin a serious rebuild of the squad.
Id argue that’s bad coaching in a badly coached team across an unsettled team with multiple managers.
He’s world class. He needs to play in a team that lets him be high risk, as they’ll win the ball back for him when it fails.
I don’t think his career has peaked by any stretch. If we don’t fix our problems in the next 12 months he’ll realise his potential elsewhere. He’s brilliant, with flaws.
Sancho (£40m), Rashford (£70m) should allow us to keep Bruno. He’s incredible and needs to be utilised.
Sancho and Rashford appear to be uncoachable. Bruno isn’t.
I said one of the best, Bernado Silva, KdB, and Odegaard are better, but they also play in much better set ups. Stat merchant is such a weird stick to beat someone with. I'd rather have someone with a good G/A tally han someone who passes the "eye test" with no end product
Imo it would be utterly mental to rid ourselves of Bruno when there are at least 20 players in the squad that are less deserving of the shirt than him
Exactly. Garnacho also loses the ball a lot, but if anyone suggested we sell him in favour of a "safer" player the pitchforks would come out
Fernandes is an Everton (when they were good) or at best Spuds level player.
I'd take Maddison over him and saying selling an underperforming 30-year-old captain on dumb wages who loses his head and rants at his young teammates while being utterly shite 95% of the time is downright ridiculous. If you truly believe that, I cannot understand how you ever followed us during the Ferguson glory years.
Bruno currently presses for Rashford who can't be bothered, he defends for Rashford who can't be bothered
Bruno currently drops back deep to cover McTominay's man in Midfield because he doesn't know how to mark a man
Bruno then shifts sides and or drops deep to move the ball forward because McTominay is hiding from the ball.
Bruno is also sprinting back to cover the jogging Casimero who is still at midfield because he can't run
and Bruno pushes forward to support Hojlund because thats his actual job
He currently plays LW, CAM, CM, all at the same time
Bruno is indiscipline because the players around him suck or either can't be bothered, if he wasnt in the squad we would get killed
Bruno currently drops back deep to cover McTominay's man in Midfield because he doesn't know how to mark a man
Bruno then shifts sides and or drops deep to move the ball forward because McTominay is hiding from the ball.
Bruno is also sprinting back to cover the jogging Casimero who is still at midfield because he can't run
and Bruno pushes forward to support Hojlund because thats his actual job
He currently plays LW, CAM, CM, all at the same time
Bruno is indiscipline because the players around him suck or either can't be bothered, if he wasnt in the squad we would get killed
We're not getting 40m for Sancho but I can see 70m for Rashford.
As for Bruno, I'm afraid the horse has run his course at Old Trafford and we should sell while he has value, probably in the 50m range. There's no doubt that he's capable of great moments, such as the outstanding goal against Liverpool last week, but he's not a footballer you can build an attack around. If the next manager decides that we're going to be a pure counterattacking club then perhaps we should keep Bruno and sell Mount, but if we're going to build something like a possession-based attack Bruno is just too chaotic to build around and we do have Mount at a great age and is, despite his critics, proven in the prem.
I think the Dortmund offer is £40m. Might be €40m but there’s not much difference.
Bruno would be a world class addition to so many squads. He’s brilliant.
They're less of a problem than pretty much everything else at the club. Neither is a perfect player so yes they have weaknesses, but those weaknesses get blown way out of proportion because these two are the most visible players in the squad and have become lightning rods for criticism as a result.
(and yes, Rashford has been shit this year)
The problem, as it has been at this club for a decade, is our utter aversion to signing central midfielders who can sit and dictate play. Casemiro was a very expensive addition in his 30s who could do one of those things, and he can't even do that anymore. Oh and we picked up Amrabat who can do neither. Put a 2012 Michael Carrick into this team and you'd see a lot less Bruno criticism imo.
(and yes, Rashford has been shit this year)
The problem, as it has been at this club for a decade, is our utter aversion to signing central midfielders who can sit and dictate play. Casemiro was a very expensive addition in his 30s who could do one of those things, and he can't even do that anymore. Oh and we picked up Amrabat who can do neither. Put a 2012 Michael Carrick into this team and you'd see a lot less Bruno criticism imo.
Bruno is brilliant. As was Countinho, Countinho more brilliant than Bruno I would say. But just as Liverpool had to sell to invest in its future so must we sell to invest in our future. But if we were only one player away from a PL title challenge then I would definitely keep Bruno.
That's true I'm imagining bruno playing in City or Arsenal he would perform much better
Hes shite 95% of the time? Is that why hes second in MOTM awards this season (4) behind Saka (5).
If he was the only one playing badly you would have a point, but when the whole team is playing like shite then its probably something else
Get real
Oh, I didn't realise MotM 'performances' won us trophies and got us results.
However, if you actually watch us play (novel concept, I know), he almost cost us an equalizer at Luton with his dumbass play and time and again he fails to inject calm in our midfield, rather he causes chaos.
Simply put, he's not United level and that's been obvious to all but the MotM awards and GA brigade who literally think football is about numbers and not how you play as a team.
This is somewhat logical when you also see the 'coach' we have who gave up on playing the style fans wanted him for in the first place from the very first day.
I agree with watching games not stats, ultimately both Bruno and Rashford offer either brilliance or disaster, which will get them the MotM when brilliant.... unfortunately we do not have a Worst Man of the Match to contrast, in the right system with better coaching I think both are incredible players, but they are what they are, the question is really are we better off having a system that supports a couple of players so that they can do what they do but relieves them of other responsibility or players which may not have the same capacity to produce individual brilliance but are nailed on to give you 7/10 performance as a minimum..... right now I would argue that we don't do either thing (ideal would like 11 brilliant players who never have a bad game and work like mules but not likely to happen).
Going back to the SAF era we often had players who offered nothing little else that occasional attacking brilliance, for example I mean I loved RVN but the only thing he ever really did was score goals....same could be said for many players, the game has changed and everybody is expected to be everywhere on the pitch, and is criticised for not busting a gut to track back.
This is spot on bar the last paragraph. Bruno discipline might be an issue, but THE PROBLEM is this Bruno role is designed by Ten Hag alone.
Bruno is a pure #10, effective in and around the box that should always play with a proper midfield BEHIND him - not only to screen him defensively, but also to provide some structure and progress the ball forward (three things he's poor at).
Forcing Bruno to play in #8 role is a serious offense. Playing another midfielder ahead of him is sackable offense.
Absolutely spot on
His desire to win and willingness to work are the reason he drops deep.
The only people forcing Bruno to play deep are the midfielders behind him who aren't good enough to do their job.
some of them because of age, and some because they simply arent good footballers.
Every MF payer we have not named Kobe or Bruno is absolute shit.
McTominay doesnt play defense, he will drop and pretend, but doesnt actually mark a man, and if he pushes high, he jogs back
Cassimero is done, he can't keep up with the game anymore
Amrabat..... jeeeeezus he turned out badly, he has no spatial awareness and seems to struggle with the pace of decision making
Erickson is the smartest player out of the group, but Bruno is a better #10 then he is currently and he can't defend or mark a man to save his life, hes also gassed after 50min
Mount is a #10 whos been injured all season
the only reason we are remotely competitive right now is Bruno's heart, Bruno's work rate. ETH doesn't make him drop deep
he HAS to, or we have an 18year old as our only CM and we get destroyed,
this squad is horrible.
Need to lay off the falling down juice
Looking forward to another dominant Bruno away game performance today.
Surely Bruno will only be kept around for another season? Why would they keep him any longer when they want to play progressive possession style football which he can't do?
Right on cue. It’s not just Garna though, but as I showed, every game we have several players that give the ball away more often than Rashford or Bruno, we have team full of players that give away so much ball and in bad areas.
We need to move him on this summer with the interest from Saudi (if he even accepts) because the market might be gone next year.
He's on stupid wages after we gave him a new contract (200k+) from 100k or 150k at most. Who's buying this clown when he's 30+ and expects to be paid like a top player (which he's not).
Nice!
Great fans we have. feck me we create the most toxic environment for our players, even the ones who work their arses off.
Couldn't care less what you deluded souls want or think. I've had it with both of these.
Are you watching? How the feck can anyone watch the utter shite being served up by the other 9 players and decide just two of them, that can actually show quality are the “clowns” or the problem.
Once again we’ve conceded what 10 shots and 4 great chances from other players being absolutely terrible at the basics.
We can sell Bruno and Rashford, but we’ll still be absolutely awful, even worse, there are so many bigger problems in this team/set-up.
Problem is the middle of the pitch..
One simple pass and they are through
One simple pass and they are through
Bruno isn’t a problem. He deserves to be apart of the rebuild and to be apart of a united with structure.
Rashford however can be sold to PSG in the summer. If only.
Rashford however can be sold to PSG in the summer. If only.
Obviously it's not ALL their fault but these guys are the marquee players, supposed to lead us to glory and being paid like that.
There's loads of talk of Ineos rewarding the right players and moving on those that don't deserve to be here. These two are basically our Aubameyang (Rashford) and Ozil (Bruno). We need radical change if we are to challenge the criminals across town
Guys.. what do these guys do? Have you seen the clown who's managing them ..
How are they getting so much space in our midfield..
Why are we playing 0-4-6?
I would accept a bid for rashford right now
Messi & Ronaldo couldn’t lead this lot to glory man, what are you watching?
We are horrific all over the pitch. We’ve given Bournemouth about 15 shots and 5 great chances, none of it remotely to do with these two.
Shit on a stick football will be a constant whilst they remain in the team
If you take Bruno out of this team we are suddenly very very ordinary.