Argentina NT

IFC 1905

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And what other captains have been told by the manager who they are putting on?

I mean it's alright defending messi but have some perspective ffs.

I'm sure it has happened as I see normal from the managers to ask questions to certain players.

It's just you pay attention to it now because it's messi and it gets viralized.

Guardiola himself said that if it wasn't for messi, he would be training in second division, in public, while training barcelona.
 

MJJ

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I'm sure it has happened as I see normal from the managers to ask questions to certain players.

It's just you pay attention to it now because it's messi and it gets viralized.

Guardiola himself said that if it wasn't for messi, he would be training in second division, in public, while training barcelona.
It doesnt? The role of the manager and captain are very different, if it was normal it wouldnt be viralized.

Not sure what guardiola has to do with this.
 

Daysleeper

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Mascherano ran after the referee for 60 yards, screaming into his ear all along, acting like a lunatic with blood running down his face. For that reason alone, I want Argentina gone from this tournament as soon as possible. Appalling, and no fecking yellow card!
A player himself is bleeding means mascherano should be punished

What a stupid remark.

Mascherano has a rough game but clearly he got fouled on something the ref didn’t see. Ffs
 
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Yagami

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@IFC 1905

Given your state, I start to believe Javier Pastore could have done something interesting for you :angel:

@Yagami can confirm
Oh, for sure! He'd have easily been their most creative player in the squad :wenger:

Seriously, though, I get why he wasn't called up as he didn't have the best of seasons (behind Neymar, M'bappé, di María, Draxler in the pecking order at PSG), but I would've loved to have seen him, Banega and Messi all linking-up :drool:
 

Harry190

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They are going to get torn to shreds against France. Expect a straight humiliation. Kante and Pogba are gonna eat them alive.
 
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padr81

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Well I guess they're better than Germany lol...

Nah, their still shite even though they scraped through, lucky for them France have been pretty shite as well thus far. Argentina vs France should be a game I'm looking forward to but I'm actually dreading it.. one team who have no tactics, can't pass a ball and rely on 1 man, versus one team who have no tactics, can pass a ball but look like they can't be arsed.
 

Charles Miller

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They can win this kind of games folks. France better to play with some "courage" and determination.
 

FootballHQ

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Really don't see them winning the midfield battle...Mascherano could barely pass a ball v greece first half, dread to see what his stats were. Banega was very good but think he could be outmuscled in this one particularly if his club mate N'zonzi plays.

Can see Messi being isolated (Kante will surely be on him like a mad Dog) and so lack of quality ball to the forward areas.

Just think France is a really bad match up for Argentina. Could be wrong of course but felt France kept Peru at arms length and their play hasn't been that much worse than Argentina at this tournament.

Then we come to Argentina not keeping a clean sheet yet so not expected against Greizmann, Mbappe, Giroud....

Of course after saying all this I'll be putting an insurance fiver on Argentina to win on Saturday lunchtime I'm sure.:lol:
 

Ekeke

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Really don't see them winning the midfield battle...Mascherano could barely pass a ball v greece first half, dread to see what his stats were. Banega was very good but think he could be outmuscled in this one particularly if his club mate N'zonzi plays.

Can see Messi being isolated (Kante will surely be on him like a mad Dog) and so lack of quality ball to the forward areas.

Just think France is a really bad match up for Argentina. Could be wrong of course but felt France kept Peru at arms length and their play hasn't been that much worse than Argentina at this tournament.

Then we come to Argentina not keeping a clean sheet yet so not expected against Greizmann, Mbappe, Giroud....

Of course after saying all this I'll be putting an insurance fiver on Argentina to win on Saturday lunchtime I'm sure.:lol:
Think the issue is Kante not the rest of France's midfielders. He's the kind of player who will be closing Banega down at all times and pinch the ball from him when he tries to be inventive. Could easily see him dance around the rest but Kante is going to be there to pinch the ball before Banega can even see him coming.
 

izec

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They will crash out, France will get their act together and just have too much class in midfield and attack
 

FootballHQ

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Pogba needs a big game aswell, outshing Messi should get him a few more instagram followers.....Seriously for his career he needs to show some leadership in this one.

I just have a feeling on France. Could be hopelessly wrong but Argentina suddenly haven't become this formidable outfit, Nigeria could've easily stuck 3 past them if Ighalo wasn't hopeless after all.

France like Brazil have been stuck in second gear but still only conceded a penalty from their three games so far more to come from them I believe.
 

Bergman

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Surely there is a way to get Dybala and Messi on the same pitch regularly? Isnt it the same thing brazil have done with Coutinho and Neymar?
They dont look good enough to win WC but getting your best players on the pitch is a good start.
 

Daysleeper

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Pogba needs a big game aswell, outshing Messi should get him a few more instagram followers.....Seriously for his career he needs to show some leadership in this one.

I just have a feeling on France. Could be hopelessly wrong but Argentina suddenly haven't become this formidable outfit, Nigeria could've easily stuck 3 past them if Ighalo wasn't hopeless after all.

France like Brazil have been stuck in second gear but still only conceded a penalty from their three games so far more to come from them I believe.
France have looked like crap, especially up front.

But Argentina have looked worse for sure.
 

Johnny Love

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Surely there is a way to get Dybala and Messi on the same pitch regularly? Isnt it the same thing brazil have done with Coutinho and Neymar?
They dont look good enough to win WC but getting your best players on the pitch is a good start.
That's where Sampaoli has failed imo. He's had a year to do this and still hasn't figured out a way to integrate Dybala in the squad.
 

Theodore

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Or president.

Come on now, aren't you taking it too far away?
Don't take this too literally, it's an analogy hinting that being good as a player doesn't mean it's natural to get squad-selection votes. Sampaoli with his deference to Messi exudes the cringe.
 
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Ekeke

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Surely there is a way to get Dybala and Messi on the same pitch regularly? Isnt it the same thing brazil have done with Coutinho and Neymar?
They dont look good enough to win WC but getting your best players on the pitch is a good start.
Argentina managers just seem to prefer negative tactics and what are supposed to be "solid" players. They've had more talent available than they've used for years
 

Infordin

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They are going to get torn to shreds against France. Expect a straight humiliation. Kante and Pogba are gonna eat them alive.
Banega will teach Pogba a lesson just like he did in the Champions League :smirk:


In all seriousness though, France are obviously favourites but I think it will be closer than people expect. I just hope that Mascherano can actually have a good game for once.
 

kouroux

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After having followed France in this WC and even the 10-12 months prior, anyone serious and sane cannot say that France will beat Argentina easily.
I have no idea, I am hopeful for a CB feck up as in a pen or a red card but I have zero confidence in our backline protecting us vs Messi and Co and I don't trust Lloris
 

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That's where Sampaoli has failed imo. He's had a year to do this and still hasn't figured out a way to integrate Dybala in the squad.
Yup. I don't understand it. And it's not even like he's tried to intergrate him into the team, I don't think he's even given it a chance.

There is a number of ways you can use a guy like Dybala.he works hard enough to even be the third midfielder. It seems obvious to me that since Messi draws out 3/4 defenders each time he has the ball, you want some to utilise that space. I think Dybala is that guy, he does well enough in Serie A without as much space he would get imo.
 

kouroux

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Yup. I don't understand it. And it's not even like he's tried to intergrate him into the team, I don't think he's even given it a chance.

There is a number of ways you can use a guy like Dybala.he works hard enough to even be the third midfielder. It seems obvious to me that since Messi draws out 3/4 defenders each time he has the ball, you want some to utilise that space. I think Dybala is that guy, he does well enough in Serie A without as much space he would get imo.
Dybala playing would even benefit Messi because the focus would be split on him with another dangerous player on the field. There is everything to gain and not much to lose
 

Ish

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Mascherano has also been extremely shit. Not sure what options Sampoali has. But the lack of Dybala is a bit mindboggling - I fully understand that he plays in Messi's best position, but he's exactly the type of player who can cause damage with the space available, if teams continue to mark Messi with 2-3 players whenever he has the ball. No one else has made use of the space (Salvio, Meza, di Maria), with the exception of Pavon who's done well, IMO.

Di Maria has been shit as well. But I guess there's no chance Dybala could be played on the RW?

The issue with playing Messi/Dybala as a #10 means they go into the match with a 2 man midfield - and they lack serious quality in there. Lo Celso as a #10? Haven't seen enough of him and he didn't impress too much against Madrid in the UCL.

Best case, try and play di Maria in that hybrid LCM/LM role he excelled at, at Madrid. This means Messi or Dybala can play at #10. But all in all, serious squad imbalance means they'll get eliminated vs France.

And please, Aguero > Higuain.
 

IFC 1905

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Don't take this too literally, it's an analogy hinting that being good as a player doesn't mean it's natural to get squad-selection votes. Sampaoli with his deference to Messi exudes the cringe.

Messi is not only good but probably the most intelligent player there is in terms of football and how he sees the game.
 

Harry190

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I'll bet my sweet bum on it: Kante will provide a performance for the ages in this game, if not simply for the fact that he outclasses that Argentina midfield by miles and miles. It will be like those 2 Arsenal-Leicester games he played or even when he plays against us. If you're predictable, he will kill you.
 

Zehner

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and yet when argentina loses, he becomes a human who needs help and support and isnt to blame for the selection.
Being an intelligent player doesn't change the fact that you play with 10 others. At the very least you can demand that those 10 remaining players don't screw up the way they've done against Croatia and Nigeria. It's not like they simply didn't contribute, some of them did the exact opposite and did more harm than good. I mean, just take a look at some of those passes, tackles or shots. Di Maria was completely slapstick against Nigeria, just like Caballero against Croatia.

And that's also why I don't think that this team is capable of beating a good opponent. You've seen it against Crotia. If they continue to play this way, France will wipe the floor with them. Especially with clinical finishers like Griezmann and Mbappe. The only hope for them is that Sampaoli gets his shit together and finally starts lining up a decent team instead of leaving out the likes of Banega, Pavon and Dybala for Acuna, Meza and co.
 

Revan

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and yet when argentina loses, he becomes a human who needs help and support and isnt to blame for the selection.
Messi just cannot lose. If his team win, it is because of him and he carries the team, if he loses, it is because of other payers.

His actual performance don't matter in the first place. In the eye of his worshipers - whom live on their own parallel universe - it is a predetermined scenario.
 

MJJ

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Being an intelligent player doesn't change the fact that you play with 10 others. At the very least you can demand that those 10 remaining players don't screw up the way they've done against Croatia and Nigeria. It's not like they simply didn't contribute, some of them did the exact opposite and did more harm than good. I mean, just take a look at some of those passes, tackles or shots. Di Maria was completely slapstick against Nigeria, just like Caballero against Croatia.

And that's also why I don't think that this team is capable of beating a good opponent. You've seen it against Crotia. If they continue to play this way, France will wipe the floor with them. Especially with clinical finishers like Griezmann and Mbappe. The only hope for them is that Sampaoli gets his shit together and finally starts lining up a decent team instead of leaving out the likes of Banega, Pavon and Dybala for Acuna, Meza and co.
ifc was adamant that messi had nothing to do with not selecting icardi or playing dybala but now is saying because messi is so good, its only natural the coach consults him about subs.

You cant have it both ways.

Dybala being out is purely due to messi and those two being similar, if messi moves to the right wing and interchanges with him, you can easily fit the two in a starting lineup.

Same for every other national side? or do you think the argentines, excluding messi ofcourse, are the only one who play poorly.

Messi just cannot lose. If his team win, it is because of him and he carries the team, if he loses, it is because of other payers.

His actual performance don't matter in the first place. In the eye of his worshipers - whom live on their own parallel universe - it is a predetermined scenario.
Exactly, its the only reason I argue against him here. His fans are worst than ronaldo's, some of them atleast admit his shortcomings. Although vancouver is similar too.
 

Zehner

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ifc was adamant that messi had nothing to do with not selecting icardi or playing dybala but now is saying because messi is so good, its only natural the coach consults him about subs.

You cant have it both ways.

Dybala being out is purely due to messi and those two being similar, if messi moves to the right wing and interchanges with him, you can easily fit the two in a starting lineup.

Same for every other national side? or do you think the argentines, excluding messi ofcourse, are the only one who play poorly.
In fact, Messi did start on the right wing in the last two matches and Dybala still didn't play. Of course this has to be due to Messi. It simply can't be related to Sampaoli who also chooses players like Acuna, Salvio, Perez and Mercado over Pavon, Banega, Di Maria, Rojo, Lo Celso, Biglia and Higuain.
And yes, of course it is harder for Dybala to get into the team because of Messi since they play similar positions but you can hardly blame Messi for being the superior player. Dybala could still avoid this by playing on the right wing or in the midfield but he doesn't do it. However, it would be Sampaoli's job to fit both into one formation. I'd personally choose something like:

-------------Higuain--Dybala--------
-------------------Messi--------------
-Di Maria---Banega--Mascherano--Pavon-
-----------Rojo--Otamendi--Fazio---

That way you'd utilize the capabilities of the Dybala/Higuain pair and still have Messi playing in the center which also makes it easier to defend the right wing. You could interchange the wingers with actual fullbacks if you want to. The thing is, Sampaoli seems to be a self-centered idiot who wants to show the people that he can do it without the stars. There is no way you can play the players he's played over Dybala and co., even if they had to play on their secondary or even tertiary positions.

Exactly, its the only reason I argue against him here. His fans are worst than ronaldo's, some of them atleast admit his shortcomings. Although vancouver is similar too.
No, I exemplarily think he had a very bad second half against Nigeria. In the first half against Croatia, he waited up front and barely received any balls. In the second he always dropped back and made midfield plays, just like against Iceland. I found it hard to criticize him in these games. But in the second against Nigeria, he was bad since he had the ball and used him poorly. Bad dribblings, bad passing, wrong decisions. I'd say Banega had a better overall game than him, despite his goal, and Pavon was better in the second half.

Doesn't change the fact that great parts of this Argentina side look absolutely overburdened with the pressure. I've not seen any other teams with these kind of technical mistakes and decisive flaws.
 

MJJ

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In fact, Messi did start on the right wing in the last two matches and Dybala still didn't play. Of course this has to be due to Messi. It simply can't be related to Sampaoli who also chooses players like Acuna, Salvio, Perez and Mercado over Pavon, Banega, Di Maria, Rojo, Lo Celso, Biglia and Higuain.
And yes, of course it is harder for Dybala to get into the team because of Messi since they play similar positions but you can hardly blame Messi for being the superior player. Dybala could still avoid this by playing on the right wing or in the midfield but he doesn't do it. However, it would be Sampaoli's job to fit both into one formation. I'd personally choose something like:

-------------Higuain--Dybala--------
-------------------Messi--------------
-Di Maria---Banega--Mascherano--Pavon-
-----------Rojo--Otamendi--Fazio---

That way you'd utilize the capabilities of the Dybala/Higuain pair and still have Messi playing in the center which also makes it easier to defend the right wing. You could interchange the wingers with actual fullbacks if you want to. The thing is, Sampaoli seems to be a self-centered idiot who wants to show the people that he can do it without the stars. There is no way you can play the players he's played over Dybala and co., even if they had to play on their secondary or even tertiary positions.



No, I exemplarily think he had a very bad second half against Nigeria. In the first half against Croatia, he waited up front and barely received any balls. In the second he always dropped back and made midfield plays, just like against Iceland. I found it hard to criticize him in these games. But in the second against Nigeria, he was bad since he had the ball and used him poorly. Bad dribblings, bad passing, wrong decisions. I'd say Banega had a better overall game than him, despite his goal, and Pavon was better in the second half.

Doesn't change the fact that great parts of this Argentina side look absolutely overburdened with the pressure. I've not seen any other teams with these kind of technical mistakes and decisive flaws.
Versus nigeria yes but against croatia he played mostly centrally, if you look at his heatmap for that game it will confirm this too.

Erm he hasnt ever played in midfield to the best of my knowledge and messi has played more often as a RW? Why would I expect dybala to be moved to RW when messi can do a much better job than him at RW? Dybala at 10, messi Rw performs better than messi at 10,dybala rw.

Not really, sampaoli seems determined to suck up to messi as much as possible, do it without the stars? Everything about his management has been I cant do this without messi.
 

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It’s Paul Pog vs Marcos The Red. Pogba the better player in midfield, but Rojo packs more danger close to goal, so I’m putting my money on Pogba to be MotM in a 1-1 draw with Rojo to score both.
 

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Versus nigeria yes but against croatia he played mostly centrally, if you look at his heatmap for that game it will confirm this too.

Erm he hasnt ever played in midfield to the best of my knowledge and messi has played more often as a RW? Why would I expect dybala to be moved to RW when messi can do a much better job than him at RW? Dybala at 10, messi Rw performs better than messi at 10,dybala rw.

Not really, sampaoli seems determined to suck up to messi as much as possible, do it without the stars? Everything about his management has been I cant do this without messi.
With great players like Messi or Dybala it doesn't even matter if you put them as a 10 or a RW, that's just their starting position, as the game plays out they're smart enough to keep swapping positions depending on matchups or the way the other team defendes, the fact that they don't play together acts just a failsafe for Sampaoli, it looks like he'd rather play bad and lose 0-1 to go with the "we really tried but things went south today", than actually trying but risk being exposed.

They could divide the team in two blocks, the 4 defenders and 2 DM, and then 3 AM and the striker, if you field a team with Messi, Dybala and fill the other spot with Di Maria/Lo Celso or even Correa/Agüero they'd have a bunch of AM's that no other can compete with, but you have to "coach" that team, it's easier to play for 0-0 and expect some of your stars bailing you with individual actions.
 

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Some Argentine media saying Pavon could start ahead of Higuain v France.

Would mean Messi plays as a false 9.

Often wondered why they haven't done this before as he's still comfortably their most reliable finisher when through on the keeper. Guess it means he wouldn't press the CBs though.

Most amusing though is Dybala still won't start even though his exact position on the pitch would be available with Messi elsewhere.
 

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Some Argentine media saying Pavon could start ahead of Higuain v France.

Would mean Messi plays as a false 9.

Often wondered why they haven't done this before as he's still comfortably their most reliable finisher when through on the keeper. Guess it means he wouldn't press the CBs though.

Most amusing though is Dybala still won't start even though his exact position on the pitch would be available with Messi elsewhere.
I have the feeling they will beat France.