Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
My initial idea of 2027 doesn't sound that crazy anymore. I thought that the UK and the EU needed to make the all thing as painless as possible and that the best way to do it was to set the No Deal deadline after the next EU budget period by 2027 everyone will know where it stands and how to move forward.
You are rather optimistic that the UK would have decided what it wants and is actually feasible by 2027.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
The Brexit rapporteur for German chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU party has urged UK politicians not to cause a no-deal Brexit by accident, the Press Association reports. Detlef Seif said:

"The discussion in the United Kingdom has created the impression that a lot of options for action are possible. But only three options exist: To agree to the deal that is on the table, to revoke the withdrawal notification, or to delay the exiting day.

We must urge our British friends that a delay is only possible if the UK takes part in the European parliament elections."
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,793
The Brexit rapporteur for German chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU party has urged UK politicians not to cause a no-deal Brexit by accident, the Press Association reports. Detlef Seif said:

"The discussion in the United Kingdom has created the impression that a lot of options for action are possible. But only three options exist: To agree to the deal that is on the table, to revoke the withdrawal notification, or to delay the exiting day.

We must urge our British friends that a delay is only possible if the UK takes part in the European parliament elections."
That is surprising, I would have thought the last thing the EU wants is the UK involved in its forthcoming elections. It would be like going looking for a gas leak with a naked flame.
 

stevoc

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2011
Messages
21,221
Say what you like about the DUP, and many people have :D, but at least they have stuck to a position rather than flip flopping around every day, for political gain. Not many seem to agree with their principles, but at least they have some.
This is easy for them though, as their position on this is the same as their position on everything else. No.
 

Shinjch

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
1,391
That is surprising, I would have thought the last thing the EU wants is the UK involved in its forthcoming elections. It would be like going looking for a gas leak with a naked flame.
I think he is just making sure that people are aware of the ramifications of a long delay. Nothing new.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,652
The Brexit rapporteur for German chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU party has urged UK politicians not to cause a no-deal Brexit by accident, the Press Association reports. Detlef Seif said:

"The discussion in the United Kingdom has created the impression that a lot of options for action are possible. But only three options exist: To agree to the deal that is on the table, to revoke the withdrawal notification, or to delay the exiting day.

We must urge our British friends that a delay is only possible if the UK takes part in the European parliament elections."
I've stopped listening to the EU leaders, they're trying to be seen as supportive of a fellow leader but from the mixed messages it's clear they want a soft brexit instead.

The EU insisted the political declaration was part of the package approved so when they send these messages out they can't pretend changing it isn't an option. We know it is
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
I've stopped listening to the EU leaders, they're trying to be seen as supportive of a fellow leader but from the mixed messages it's clear they want a soft brexit instead.

The EU insisted the political declaration was part of the package approved so when they send these messages out they can't pretend changing it isn't an option. We know it is
Changing is an option but there is still only one withdrawal agreement even if the political declaration is changed. If for example the UK suddenly said, OK we'll have a BINO and stay in the CU and SM the WA would have to be rewritten but there's nothing in parliament that is suggesting that at all.
 

Maticmaker

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
4,793
Yes but if the UK completely change their stance then it's going to take a lot longer.
Yes that's true, but we've been in the 'Groundhog day' mode so long now I can't see anything changing until either the No deal kicks in or there is a revocation of A50 and both seem as equally unlikely now after yesterdays pantomime.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Yes that's true, but we've been in the 'Groundhog day' mode so long now I can't see anything changing until either the No deal kicks in or there is a revocation of A50 and both seem as equally unlikely now after yesterdays pantomime.
Looks that way at the moment. Nothing on the horizon seems to suggest that's going to change.
 

MikeUpNorth

Wobbles like a massive pair of tits
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
19,948
Trying to think of any solution that can simultaneously have a chance of passing the Commons and not cause the ERG/DUP to bring down the government is very tricky now.

The best I can come up with is a vote to ratify the WA, with a guaranteed referendum on the future relationship to decide between Norway+ and May’s Political Declaration. Basically take the two extremes (no-deal and remain) off the table and offer a referendum on the ‘moderate’ future options.

Could it pass the commons with Labour support?
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
15,335
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
I don't think it's a good idea to keep dragging this problem forever. It's unfair on an entire continent that deserves to move on rather then keep being linked to the hip with an unreliable partner who secretly wants the EU to collapse

I also believe that once reality start biting the spirit of Dunkirk will kick in and the UK will be rowing back to safety (in the EU) Which means a no deal Brexit will be short lived

There again I respect Irelands decision to leave the EU if it feels that the GFA is more important then EU membership
You realise Dunkirk was a retreat? Also why the feck would Ireland leave the EU and why on earth do you think they should be put in that position because of something GB voted for (and NI voted against)? Bloody hell.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
15,335
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Throughout my short stay in the UK I voted for the staunchest Remainer parties there was available and in favour of remain. So I guess I care about the Irish border more then the majority of British people and a big chunk of the Northern Irish who still keep the DUP in control

Having said that we live in dangerous times. Our borders are threatened by Russia, the US president openly hates the EU and populism is raising its ugly head almost everywhere in the world. Thus the last thing the EU needs is to allow an unreliable member who hates the EU and is master in the divide and rule tactics to retain its membership and therefore its VETO. The EU is in dire need of reform which include more integration in issues such as security. We can't and we shouldn't keep a country who would probably sell us down the river either to try and appease Trump or just because it can.

I am not against a deal quite the contrary. However its evident that the UK doesn't want one. They dragged their feet throughout the past 2 years and when they finally agreed on a deal they couldn't pass it through parliament because of something they wanted in the first place (the backstop). So seriously, should we risk ruining the EU project, the same EU project that made Europe prosperous and peaceful for decades for some pipe dream?

PS I am not against offering some sort of temporary deal that safeguard the GFA up until we can agree a more permanent deal (the WA is all about that) However we simply can't allow such unreliable partner to retain its veto and to represent himself in the EU parliament. That would be madness.

@pocco

If I hated the British then I would have voted for Brexit as that was the surest way to damage the UK in numerous ways. Which isn't the case. However please understand that I am in no mood to see my country and the majority of Europe being dragged into chaos because of the clowns you voted in at Westminster.

The VAST majority of people in NI do not want a border in Ireland - in fact I'd say almost 100% of people with those who want it probably utterly insane. On this issue the DUP represent almost nobody in NI.
 

balaks

Full Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
15,335
Location
Northern Ireland
Supports
Tottenham Hotspur
Whoever voted for Brexit knew that the GFA would be at risk and those who insist on a no deal Brexit including those who voted against removing a no deal Brexit off the table simply do not care about the GFA at all. The same can be said about those who are voting against the WA which seem to be one of the very few viable ways for the UK to leave the EU in an orderly manner and in total respect of the GFA.
Most people who voted for Brexit had no clue about the GFA.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,652
So they're going to vote just on the WA which is a bit pointless.

A rather obvious trap
 

Klopper76

"Did you see Fabinho against Red Star & Cardiff?"
Joined
Dec 15, 2015
Messages
19,950
Location
Victoria, BC
Supports
Liverpool
From what I'm reading this vote tomorrow would simply be to decide whether leaving with a WA is the new default position?

If that's the case then what happens if the government brings back the same deal for a third meaningful vote? The Speaker has already said that May can't put the exact same deal back in for a third vote if there's no drastic changes to it so what? The government votes in favour of leaving with a WA as the default but there's no WA available to actually go for?
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,652
From what I'm reading this vote tomorrow would simply be to decide whether leaving with a WA is the new default position?

If that's the case then what happens if the government brings back the same deal for a third meaningful vote? The Speaker has already said that May can't put the exact same deal back in for a third vote if there's no drastic changes to it so what? The government votes in favour of leaving with a WA as the default but there's no WA available to actually go for?
My guess, the government take it as passing the entire thing and give approval to the EU. Not sure if they can but I'd bet that's what they'll do.

Essentially a con for the speaker to allow MV3.
 

iammemphis

iwillnotaskforanamechangeagain
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
6,038
Location
Hertfordshire
Can anyone in laymans term explain to me what on earth is going on, particularly why have the MPs rejected her deal TWICE already, but may possibly accept it THIRD TIME ROUND if she promises to leave as PM. Surely its not about her, but the contents and agreements in the deal?
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,882
You realise Dunkirk was a retreat?
I know hence why the comment. Ie backpaddling back into the EU..

Also why the feck would Ireland leave the EU and why on earth do you think they should be put in that position because of something GB voted for (and NI voted against)? Bloody hell.
Where have I said that Ireland should leave the EU? What I said is that Ireland should be supported financially in an event of a no deal Brexit however if they choose the GFA over their EU membership then that decision should be respected. You're right to say that its unfair for Ireland to be impacted by something the GB voted for. However its also unfair and unacceptable for the entire continent to be held hostage to the whims of Westminster on something the GB voted for as well. So if the UK can't decide which way to go then it should be pushed out of the door.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,578
I can't believe we're voting for this deal again in its current form. JUST GET THE BACKSTOP REMOVED. Offer concessions on other red lines, staying in the single market, staying in the customs union, whatever.

NEGOTIATE FFS. >_<
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
I can't believe we're voting for this deal again in its current form. JUST GET THE BACKSTOP REMOVED. Offer concessions on other red lines, staying in the single market, staying in the customs union, whatever.

NEGOTIATE FFS. >_<
If the UK stayed in the Single Market and Customs Union there wouldn't be a need for the backstop. On the other hand if the UK remained in the Customs Union and the Single Market there wouldn't be a need for Brexit full stop.
 

Paul the Wolf

Full Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
17,947
Location
France - can't win anything with Swedish turnips
Can anyone in laymans term explain to me what on earth is going on, particularly why have the MPs rejected her deal TWICE already, but may possibly accept it THIRD TIME ROUND if she promises to leave as PM. Surely its not about her, but the contents and agreements in the deal?
But her stepping down is only to get the Tories to vote for it which won't be enough , need some Labour/DUP/SNP to vote for it as well.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,882
The VAST majority of people in NI do not want a border in Ireland - in fact I'd say almost 100% of people with those who want it probably utterly insane. On this issue the DUP represent almost nobody in NI.
Most people who voted for Brexit had no clue about the GFA.
Europe can't be expected to keep dancing to the tunes of ignorant people who voted for something despite having no idea how it will impact their lives especially since they keep insisting on it. Don't forget that for most people in Europe the politicians at Westminster are bureaucrats none of us had voted for.

Brexit means Brexit and its really time for you guys to get on with it. After all a no deal is still better then a bad deal right?
 
Last edited:

Minimalist

New Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
15,091
Most people who voted for Brexit had no clue about the GFA.
People who voted for Brexit didn't fecking know Ireland was partitioned, never mind a peace agreement. :lol:

Lost track of the amount English people I've met over the years who are woefully clueless about this island.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,578
I know hence why the comment. Ie backpaddling back into the EU..



Where have I said that Ireland should leave the EU? What I said is that Ireland should be supported financially in an event of a no deal Brexit however if they choose the GFA over their EU membership then that decision should be respected. You're right to say that its unfair for Ireland to be impacted by something the GB voted for. However its also unfair and unacceptable for the entire continent to be held hostage to the whims of Westminster on something the GB voted for as well. So if the UK can't decide which way to go then it should be pushed out of the door.
Exactly the type of thing the ERG want you to champion. No deal Brexit, and we get to blame the EU for it too!

Excellent.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,882
People who voted for Brexit didn't fecking know Ireland was partitioned, never mind a peace agreement. :lol:

Lost track of the amount English people I've met over the years who are woefully clueless about this island.
Yet they expect Europe's patient to be infinite simply because the majority of UK voters are......
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,882
Exactly the type of thing the ERG want you to champion. No deal Brexit, and we get the blame the EU for it too!

Excellent.
Do you think that a gym owner cares what the person who left the gym thinks of him?