Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[Ubik]

If anyone wanted to watch that question time, my review of it would be: waste of time

*Applause*

 

[Wibble]

Seriously, 'Leavers' are the most ignorant people ever. They have been told to their face that 2 most important promises from Leave campaign was a lie. Leave leaders don't have any plan what to do now whatsoever but still lots of people support them and trying to find excuses. What the hell?

It's immigrants innit

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

IIRC the ECJ said that the Uk courts will ultimately decide but that because the defendant child is british the EU laws are against it.

Aye, and in the case of the Moroccan woman used by Andrew (talks nonsense) Neil for this lie, "the protection of children forms part of UK law independently of EU law and this sometimes means allowing a parent to remain.”

 

[ivaldo]

Yes it is.

Why the wow? Give me an example where the UK have not been able to send someone home and why? or break down the law and tell me the part you have a problem with?

Green smilies mean feck all when you haven't a clue what you are talking about so show us that you do understand the topic at hand.

Yeah as soon as someone's argument reverts around breaking down a law (for which they don't understand themselves) tips the balance in whether it's worth nothing to continue or not. I'm out, you can continue prentending the EU is something without fault.

 

[ivaldo]

IIRC the ECJ said that the Uk courts will ultimately decide but that because the defendant's child is british the EU laws are against it.

I wasnt talking about a specific case.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Any law which prevents the deportation of a rapist or terrorist because it would affect their family life needs adjusting, not changing, adjusting.

UK law prevents that if the terrorist has a British Child, for the record. However, even if there is such a child, the parent’s deportation could still go ahead if there is a “genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat… based on an imperative reason relating to public security."

 

[Silva]

Ah here we go, the 'resite the law' part of the argument.

Any law which prevents the deportation of a rapist or terrorist because it would affect their family life needs adjusting, not changing, adjusting.

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/immigration-law/removal-from-the-uk/

There's a simplified version for you, which of that sounds unreasonable?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You can continue prentending the EU is something without fault.

The advances in human rights are probably the crowning success of the EU.

Is the EU perfect, of course not, that's why it's constantly evolving and trying to improve.

 

[ivaldo]

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/immigration-law/removal-from-the-uk/

There's a simplified version for you, which of that sounds unreasonable?

Simplifed.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Seriously, 'Leavers' are the most ignorant people ever. They have been told to their face that 2 most important promises from Leave campaign was a lie. Leave leaders don't have any plan what to do now whatsoever but still lots of people support them and trying to find excuses. What the hell?

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...-will-mean-and-they-are-not-happy--WySvafrAVZ

Similar article on Daily Mail readers knocking about as well.

 

[Silva]

Simplifed.

It's clearly all you're capable of.

 

[Zarlak]

You seemed to back away when I pointed out that it was democracy and that they were elected ivaldo, I'd be interested in your response?

 

[ivaldo]

It's clearly all you're capable of.

Was that necessary? I was trying to have a genuine discussion, insults aren't needed.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Was that necessary? I was trying to have a genuine discussion, insults aren't needed.

Discussion? You're using green smilies about matters you clearly don't understand, how is that "trying to have a genuine discussion".

You also went very quiet very quickly when @Zarlak pulled you up on another ridiculous leave campaign lie.

And back on point, which part of the article Silva posted is unreasonable?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

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He's bottling it!

Clown.

Or, to be exact, mendacious populist losing his bottle. Would be funny if it weren't for the fact that this little game of theirs has the potential to feck millions of people over for years to come.

 

[do.ob]

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/ar...-will-mean-and-they-are-not-happy--WySvafrAVZ

Similar article on Daily Mail readers knocking about as well.

I like how beer prices will go up is the fourth point
in Germany it would be first

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I like how beer prices will go up is the fourth point
in Germany it would be first

I like one of the Daily Mail comments.

"Who cares? I have never had a passport, what is wrong with England for a holiday?'

 

[do.ob]

Seriously though wouldn't backtracking from BJ and his pals have catastrophic consequences for the British democracy? Surely the people who are still behind Brexit would feel (somewhat rightfully) cheated by their politicans and extremist parties would have a field day?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Seriously though wouldn't backtracking from BJ and his pals have catastrophic consequences for the British democracy? Surely the people who are still behind Brexit would feel (somewhat rightfully) cheated by their politicans and extremist parties would have a field day?

You'd certainly think so.

Hence why i think it's "better" now in many ways for the UK to agree a shite EEA deal and at least give the people back some bizarre idea of control and "Britain back". But make no mistake, Scotland is a still gonna be a big big problem.

The pound is still dropping like a stone fwiw.

 

[rotherham_red]

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I said it right at the start. These social media justice warriors and hashtag activists have a lot of making up to do. It's almost as if they think their job is finished as soon as they log off, and not do the one thing that would have actually made a difference or had an influence on proceedings. The same thing happened in the General Election last year, and there were hundreds of incredulous statuses asking just how did it happen.

It was also repeatedly said in the run-up to the vote, that the kingmakers in this Referendum would be those people under the age of 35. If they turned out to vote one way or another in any decent numbers, that the side they'd choose, would be the victor. And now we have seen the results of their apathy... Not sure if it's their fault or the system itself, but it's a crying shame that a generation which had so much riding on the result of this Referendum didn't turn out to do what they needed to do.

 

[Berbaclass]

I like one of the Daily Mail comments.

"Who cares? I have never had a passport, what is wrong with England for a holiday?'

Who are these people, Alan Patridge?

 

[Snowjoe]

I said it right at the start. These social media justice warriors and hashtag activists have a lot of making up to do. It's almost as if they think their job is finished as soon as they log off, and not do the one thing that would have actually made a difference or had an influence on proceedings. The same thing happened in the General Election last year, and there were hundreds of incredulous statuses asking just how did it happen.

It was also repeatedly said in the run-up to the vote, that the kingmakers in this Referendum would be those people under the age of 35. If they turned out to vote one way or another in any decent numbers, that the side they'd choose, would be the victor. And now we have seen the results of their apathy... Not sure if it's their fault or the system itself, but it's a crying shame that a generation which had so much riding on the result of this Referendum didn't turn out to do what they needed to do.

People clarified this earlier in the thread, those stats aren't the actual turnout figures.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The same thing happened in the General Election last year...

And those stats are based on that, apparently. They aren't legit.

 

[Adisa]

Nowhere in Boris' article in the Telegraph does he mention Article 50.

 

[Berbaclass]

Nowhere in Boris' article in the Telegraph does he mention Article 50.

Thats because it won't get triggered lol. Cameron beat him and he knows it.

 

[ZupZup]

I said it right at the start. These social media justice warriors and hashtag activists have a lot of making up to do. It's almost as if they think their job is finished as soon as they log off, and not do the one thing that would have actually made a difference or had an influence on proceedings. The same thing happened in the General Election last year, and there were hundreds of incredulous statuses asking just how did it happen.

It was also repeatedly said in the run-up to the vote, that the kingmakers in this Referendum would be those people under the age of 35. If they turned out to vote one way or another in any decent numbers, that the side they'd choose, would be the victor. And now we have seen the results of their apathy... Not sure if it's their fault or the system itself, but it's a crying shame that a generation which had so much riding on the result of this Referendum didn't turn out to do what they needed to do.

Whilst I don't doubt that turnout wasn't high enough amongst the younger age groups, I wouldn't take the figures in the tweet as being accurate.

Those figures are estimates based on a pre-referendum poll by Sky who took a sample and asked them how they would vote in the referendum and how likely they were to vote (scale of 1-10). Those who answered either 9 or 10 for the latter question were used to estimate turnout percentage. As you can see... bit of an assumption there.

 

[Adisa]

Beginning to think we aren't going to leave.

 

[Berbaclass]

Beginning to think we aren't going to leave.

Yeah we won't.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

...at General Elections, representatives from political parties stand outside polling stations asking for your voting ID number, and collate this information country-wide to figure out who voted (and guess how, based on canvassing data). However, they tend not to at one-off votes, such as referendums, and didn't on Thursday.

The source for the referendum's supposed turnout data is Sky Data, which tweeted this out today:

Sky isn't claiming this is collected data - it's projected, and a subsequent tweet said it was based on "9+/10 certainty to vote, usually/always votes, voted/ineligible at GE2015.

 

[do.ob]

But wouldn't staying mean political suicide and not just for BJ, but for the entire party? I have a hard time believing that a politician would choose that fate.

Dunno, maybe I have watched too much house of cards...

 

[Xeno]

After unwittingly stating your beleive that freedom of movement was a bad thing, then trying to amend that by throwing petty insults then that very much makes sense.

Already explained it is you misconstruing my meaning, probably deliberately. Nothing unwitting in my comment.

 

[Berbaclass]

But wouldn't staying mean political suicide and not just for BJ, but for the entire party? I have a hard time believing that a politician would choose that fate.

BJ is finished whatever happens now. Cameron beat him well and truly.

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

 

[berbatrick]

I said it right at the start. These social media justice warriors and hashtag activists have a lot of making up to do. It's almost as if they think their job is finished as soon as they log off, and not do the one thing that would have actually made a difference or had an influence on proceedings. The same thing happened in the General Election last year, and there were hundreds of incredulous statuses asking just how did it happen.

It was also repeatedly said in the run-up to the vote, that the kingmakers in this Referendum would be those people under the age of 35. If they turned out to vote one way or another in any decent numbers, that the side they'd choose, would be the victor. And now we have seen the results of their apathy... Not sure if it's their fault or the system itself, but it's a crying shame that a generation which had so much riding on the result of this Referendum didn't turn out to do what they needed to do.

It is worth considering that the twitter warriors are part of the 35% youngsters who did vote. And also that the 65% silent group may well have been completely neutral voters.

 

[do.ob]

BJ is finished whatever happens now. Cameron beat him well and truly.

But he would throw the entire party on the grenade?! Given how utterly scrupulous it seems to lie to and manipulate your nation for a cause that you don't even truly want to succeed (no matter how this ends, there will be a lot of wounds to society) I wouldn't be surprised if he just rolls with it (Brexit) for as long as he can survive.

 

[Adisa]

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[Kaos]

Never thought I'd say this but David feckin Cameron is probably my favourite person in the whole world right now

He's still to blame for putting us in this mess mind you.

 

[Berbaclass]

Never thought I'd say this but David feckin Cameron is probably my favourite person in the whole world right now

He's still to blame for putting us in this mess mind you.

I share your sentiment there pal.

 

[Kaos]

I share your sentiment there pal.

Feels like he's magneto from the latest xmen film.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I think Cameron just resigned.

I'm not sure he actually morphed into a Game of Thrones character.

 

[Ubik]

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AND for us not to adhere to any EU regulations, and not have to pay anything in. And cake, everyone gets cake.