How he plays on Saturday will dictate the teams performance as well. He's fully rested and will probably be captain. We need the best version of him to get to that next level and compete with the top teams.
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 59
- Goals
- 14
- Assists
- 13
- Yellow cards
- 12
- Status
The thing about Bruno is that he keeps shutting those fans who kept saying he cant do x,y,z.
First they said he is only good because Ole gave him free role and took pens, a proper coach or manager wont play him.
Was a fixture under Rangnick too.
Then they said in a possession based team, he wont be able to play, ETH will replace him with Donny.
Since pre season, Bruno has been Ten Hag's guy, on and off the field, gave him captaincy, leadership role and just listen to how he speaks about him. If that isn't enough, every game he is played, almost 90 mins.
Seriously, do people think that managers dont know what they are doing? He is a special player for us and I dont know where anyone buys this notion of we cant win a trophy because he is in our team.
First they said he is only good because Ole gave him free role and took pens, a proper coach or manager wont play him.
Was a fixture under Rangnick too.
Then they said in a possession based team, he wont be able to play, ETH will replace him with Donny.
Since pre season, Bruno has been Ten Hag's guy, on and off the field, gave him captaincy, leadership role and just listen to how he speaks about him. If that isn't enough, every game he is played, almost 90 mins.
Seriously, do people think that managers dont know what they are doing? He is a special player for us and I dont know where anyone buys this notion of we cant win a trophy because he is in our team.
As others mentioned, his overall performance and output has been below expectations. Hopefully he kicks on very soon
It is ok….the same as it’s ok for you to form your entire opinion on data.
Cool idea, should be fun to form opinion on data + eye test rather than forming opinion based on whether you like the player.
Literally never done that.
Just watched Southampton v City and City had an XG of despite having 0 shots on target and a higher XG than Southampton who won 2-0. Just because people don’t look at stats as the be all and end all does t mean they base an opinion on like / dislike.
My opinion is based on performance.
xG has nothing to do with shots on target and it's not used game by game.
Stop using "My opinion is based on performance" ffs, we all know what it is based on
Stop trying to misrepresent anyone who doesn’t think Bruno has been brilliant.xG has nothing to do with shots on target and it's not used game by game.
Stop using "My opinion is based on performance" ffs, we all know what it is based on
With regards to XG it highlights the ridiculous notion of said stats.
Honestly I'm with you. This season really hasn't been his best work at all, particularly on the ball. It'd be doing him a disservice to say it has been, considering we've seen him produce significantly more and look far less careless in the process across his first 12 months.
Watching him this season I think he's in the team for his work off the ball more than anything. Offensively and defensively he brings an intensity that none of our other options in that position bring. But he absolutely needs to do better when we're in possession and limit the brainless giveaways in dangerous positions.
And the strawman
Go away you freak.
Started with a wrong argument, followed by a strawman. Nice.
To keep it simple, go and check what chances created means and it has nothing to do with goals or assists.
Agreed. His work rate cannot be questioned but it’s a weird position to play somebody for workrate. His output has dropped so much from his first 6-10 months.
He’ll be rubbish for 80minutes but will get an assist.
One final post on this for now, because it’s boring me so god knows what others think.
I will outline my opinion for the sake of clarity in the hope that some smart arse doesn’t pick up on one line of it and try to twist the entire thread into something that is purely their narrative.
Watching Bruno for the last two years, my opinion is that overall he hasn’t been great, he’s often been poor and sometimes been good. Seldom great. He works hard and this season is, in my opinion, playing more of a team role than Hollywood ball.
Bruno got great credit in his first 6-10 months for his output, goals and assists. This is undeniable. Somehow suddenly these statistics are not important. What matters apparently is XG, XA. Somehow it is the fault of others? Last season the guy with the most goals was to blame. This season it’s the fault of players not scoring enough or the guy who played the least. Or maybe none of that matters because only XG XA matter ?
I prefer to watch games with my eyes. For example our second goal on Tuesday Pellistri picks up the ball and McT makes a great run because it opens up three options for Pellistri. He could go it alone, he could pass to McT or he could wait a second for the space to open and pick the best option. My eyes will tell me this. I can judge performance on this. Stats will not tell you if he played the wrong pass.
If deeper stats tell me City scored more goals than Southampton without hitting the target once, or that Bruno has been the third best player in the league this season and is a similar player to KDB I’m not too fussed by them. I get that others are, and I’m fine with that but my opinion is my opinion and it’s based on what I see and confirmed by the same stats that Bruno was given so much credit for two years ago.
If others feel differently that’s fine, let’s debate but don’t tell me what my opinion is or what it is based on.
I will outline my opinion for the sake of clarity in the hope that some smart arse doesn’t pick up on one line of it and try to twist the entire thread into something that is purely their narrative.
Watching Bruno for the last two years, my opinion is that overall he hasn’t been great, he’s often been poor and sometimes been good. Seldom great. He works hard and this season is, in my opinion, playing more of a team role than Hollywood ball.
Bruno got great credit in his first 6-10 months for his output, goals and assists. This is undeniable. Somehow suddenly these statistics are not important. What matters apparently is XG, XA. Somehow it is the fault of others? Last season the guy with the most goals was to blame. This season it’s the fault of players not scoring enough or the guy who played the least. Or maybe none of that matters because only XG XA matter ?
I prefer to watch games with my eyes. For example our second goal on Tuesday Pellistri picks up the ball and McT makes a great run because it opens up three options for Pellistri. He could go it alone, he could pass to McT or he could wait a second for the space to open and pick the best option. My eyes will tell me this. I can judge performance on this. Stats will not tell you if he played the wrong pass.
If deeper stats tell me City scored more goals than Southampton without hitting the target once, or that Bruno has been the third best player in the league this season and is a similar player to KDB I’m not too fussed by them. I get that others are, and I’m fine with that but my opinion is my opinion and it’s based on what I see and confirmed by the same stats that Bruno was given so much credit for two years ago.
If others feel differently that’s fine, let’s debate but don’t tell me what my opinion is or what it is based on.
What a great captain.
So happy Ten Hag made him that.
He has toned down his game that we played under counter attacking team to a team that can retain possesion but still create chances.
So happy Ten Hag made him that.
He has toned down his game that we played under counter attacking team to a team that can retain possesion but still create chances.
On that individual occasion, no they wont. But stats will tell you if a player is making the correct pass more often relative to everyone else, which is what they show with Bruno.
Watching with your eyes is GREAT for judging an individual event, it's not great for judging a collection of events. You are relying on your memory to correctly identify every event and weight them correctly, which is just unfeasible. People remember negatives more strongly than positives, that correct pass Bruno plays out wide right? You only remember Antony cutting in to his left foot instead of going down the outside. The good through ball Rashford wasn't just quick enough off the mark to get to? That might get an "oooh" and then your brain will move on. But the ball he miscues and it goes nowhere, or the counter where he doesn't see the man? Those things stick in the memory.
If your eyes tell you one thing and data tells you another, then it's probably an observation bias or you're looking at the wrong data.
Firstly....no I remember plenty of great passes or pieces of play that don’t come to anything.
Secondly...Sorry are you saying Bruno has been the third best player in the league this season?
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with my assessment of Bruno. It’s certainly relative with the majority of opinions on a match per match basis. The only time it ever changes is where you’ve had ten average matches in consensus and then someone comes in with some stats that say he’s been great and 10 to 15 posters with a bias come out claiming this to be proof that everybody was wrong about the last 10 games they watched.
This is literally the reality of it.
I'm sure you do, but you're missing the point. It's a well established phenomenon that people put more weight on negative experiences than positive or neutral ones. Negative emotions help memory formation to a far greater extent than positive ones. That's just how our brain works. Heck, you might even be one of the extremely rare people this doesn't apply to, but do you really think you are without recollection biases?
There is a margin of error in any stat and "best" is extremely objective. If the question is "has Bruno been amongst the best players in the league this year?" then the answer is unequivocally yes.
This again comes down to people caring more about negative memories than positive ones. People complain more than they eulogise.
we will leave the conversation here.
DeGea
Dalot
Shaw
Varane
Martinez
Casemiro
Erikson
Rashford
Garnacho (per 90)
From United have been better for us this season in my opinion. So I don’t see how Bruno is one of the best players in the league when he hasn’t been one of ours.
Dalot
Shaw
Varane
Martinez
Casemiro
Erikson
Rashford
Garnacho (per 90)
From United have been better for us this season in my opinion. So I don’t see how Bruno is one of the best players in the league when he hasn’t been one of ours.
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This seems like a very taciturn admission that your "I'll rely on the eye test" theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
No it’s a ‘if you think Bruno has been unequivocally one of the best players in the league this season then I don’t see any point in us discussing the matter further’
You're arguing in favour of a methodology and then saying you refuse to argue because the result of the other methodology is enough to conclude the argument. This is a circular argument called the "begging the question" fallacy.
Or it could be that our opinions differ so massively that there seems little point in continuing. I’m fine if you want to go with stats and feel that Bruno has been one of the best players in the league this season. I don’t feel he’s been one of United’s even. We clearly form our opinions differently. I’m fine with that.
This thread is just about as pointless as it can get, there are no facts, just opinions, for what it's worth, my opionion is that Bruno has not been one of the best players in the league this season, it doesn't make him bad, it just means other players have been better, just at United most fans would say that Rashford, Martinez, Shaw, Dalot Casemiro have had better seasons so far so that's not even top 5 before you even consider others such as Haaland
Only the 5 posts about it since this statement. Impressive.
All of them responses.
This is a player performance thread. The purpose of it to critique individual player performance. What happens then is that people may disagree and present a counter argument or in the case of this thread is that they try and tell you what your opinion is or what it’s based on.
Typically that leads to a reply.
You might try using this thread for what it is intended ie critiquing Bruno’s performance on a game by game, rather than using it to simply disagree with or attack any poster who doesn’t think Bruno played well.
Your post history in this thread is nothing more than pro Bruno attacks on posters who simply have critiqued Bruno’s performances week in week out and give an opinion.
I’m not sure that is the purpose of this thread
Thanks for explaining how football forums work!
Not that I really need to defend myself but I had 9 posts in this thread before this. 2 of which were in response to someone saying Ronaldo had been more useful this season. On more than 1 occasion I've mentioned he's not exactly been great.
102 posts of "critique" . You do you.
it's still a fallacious argument. You do see the problem with engaging in a debate about the unsuitability of using stats to judge a player, then using your evaluation of a player and the difference between your view and others as a reason not to have the debate though right? It's very much "have your cake and eat it".
Our views on Bruno are outcomes of the methodology we use to arrive at the end point. The contention isn't on the end point, the distinction is on the methodology.
All this about Bruno this Bruno that, he is up there with the most created chances in the PL this season. But unfortunately, some people dont see that with their eyes.
I will give an example that I saw yesterday. Felix had a clever turn in his own half, drove with the ball and passed it to Mount, he continued his run and Mount played a ball sideways to Azpi.
Nothing came out of it and Mount got a completed pass, I can guarantee everyone on here, if that is Bruno, he is looking for the pass to Felix and send him through on goal.
Yes, he will not make that pass 100% of the time but from watching him, that pass will go through 75% of the times, which means 3/4 times that creates a goal scoring chance.
If he doesn't attempt it, there is 0% chance possibility and you keep possession for sake of it.
I will give an example that I saw yesterday. Felix had a clever turn in his own half, drove with the ball and passed it to Mount, he continued his run and Mount played a ball sideways to Azpi.
Nothing came out of it and Mount got a completed pass, I can guarantee everyone on here, if that is Bruno, he is looking for the pass to Felix and send him through on goal.
Yes, he will not make that pass 100% of the time but from watching him, that pass will go through 75% of the times, which means 3/4 times that creates a goal scoring chance.
If he doesn't attempt it, there is 0% chance possibility and you keep possession for sake of it.
Brunos an excellent captain and a brilliant player for us. He does make mistakes in the final third but he also comes up with magic required to unlock tight defenses. Could he play better? Of course he could, but he's also not as bad as many say and for me he's one of our best players.
He has a very high amount of chances created and offensive passes.
My issue is that, this season so far, they very rarely result in a goal. His amount of assists is very low for a player in his position. Some will say its because of our attackers not converting, but then why does Eriksen have a much higher assist tally despite having less chances created? Its the same players he is feeding. Maybe its because Eriksen picks the correct pass more often and his simple passes are easier to work with.
I think thats where looking at all the stats and then adding the eye test comes together.
Bruno works extremely hard and his defensive stats are fantastic for someone in his position. But there is a issue with his decision making in the final third which the stats pretty much back up.
My issue is that, this season so far, they very rarely result in a goal. His amount of assists is very low for a player in his position. Some will say its because of our attackers not converting, but then why does Eriksen have a much higher assist tally despite having less chances created? Its the same players he is feeding. Maybe its because Eriksen picks the correct pass more often and his simple passes are easier to work with.
I think thats where looking at all the stats and then adding the eye test comes together.
Bruno works extremely hard and his defensive stats are fantastic for someone in his position. But there is a issue with his decision making in the final third which the stats pretty much back up.
Seems like the manager disagrees? Bruno plays almost every game as the captain.
And come on mate, Garnacho, DDG, Eriksen, Dalot?
Only players who’ve been better this season than Bruno are Varane, Martinez, Casemiro. Shaw and Rashford are on their way though but both were poor in the first quarter of the season and only picked up about 10 games ago.
Bruno's been our best signing since DDG/RVP (Will compare to the ETH signings once they've been in the team for 3 seasons, Casemiro is doing great so far but so did Matic in his first year.)
PS. To the guy who;
1. Keeps shitting on Bruno
2. Is talking about his exceptional memory to remember all situations from all games that don't lead to chances
Think back to the Pre-Bruno United, or even more recent games without him. Or leave the bitter agenda against him off the forum.
PS. To the guy who;
1. Keeps shitting on Bruno
2. Is talking about his exceptional memory to remember all situations from all games that don't lead to chances
Think back to the Pre-Bruno United, or even more recent games without him. Or leave the bitter agenda against him off the forum.
What is actually going on in this thread? Is it a small group of loud posters or is Bruno somehow not highly rated on RedCafe?
Matic never played at the level Casemiro has shown already. He was finished by the time he came to us.
The crazy thing is the guy who cannot stop shitting on Bruno would not hear a bad word about Paul Pogba. Yes, that Paul Pogba. Which somewhat undermines the notion that he is capable of understanding the contribution of players at a far deeper level than mere stats can demonstrate.
- Status