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I couldn’t disagree more.For United alone, Bruno was easily a better player than Tevez was.
There were probably 7-8 players more important than Tevez here during that season.I couldn’t disagree more.
If I had the time, I’d love to make some match compilations of Tevez. His poor finishing and the fact that he went on to become even better at City and Juventus gives people the false impression he flattered to deceive here. His general play was absolutely key to us having our 2nd best ever season as a club.
Bruno doesn’t come close despite his stat padding.
I'd swap Bruno for Tevez in this team in a heartbeat.There were probably 7-8 players more important than Tevez here during that season.
He was a contributor, but he wasn't as good as he was later on at City/Juventus.
Bruno's been easily better for us all things considered. And I also can't stand watching him, so I'm not biased towards him.
If you made a thread, I'm pretty sure most would pick Bruno at United over Tevez at United. The only argument is that Tevez simply featured in a much better team.
Yeah well it was more about him being loved. Here in Argentina he was considered the player of the people. He pretended to be a humble guy, but I always felt the opposite. People were defending him at all costs. In the end he turned out to be a shitty person for many things he did and said.Hurts seeing you compare this guy to Tevez. Tevez was a great player. Bruno is, well, not.
I don't know how it was disrespectful, Bruno has played there in the past no? My point is he had to run more than he normally would because of 10 men.. Just didn't help his cause. Apart from that back flick that ended up creating a chance for them, I thought he was ok.You’re not getting it. Some fans believe his strength is a weakness for how they want the team to play.
We all have our preference.
I normally get on his case but today the manager was disrespectful to Southampton with his midfield selection and tactics. It backfired, so I’d absolve all players from criticism today.
Me too.I'd swap Bruno for Tevez in this team in a heartbeat.
This. I guess everyone sees his quality, the problem is just his mentality. People are just gutted when he always loses composure when things aren't going his way.He needs to calm down when things aren’t going his way
ehhhh. the guy's play style and decision-making is "feck it, one of these will land on someone at some point"I guess everyone sees his quality, the problem is just his mentality.
Most would. Bruno is a hero here and Tevez is seen as a snake who pretty much had one good season here. I will always disagree with that, though.There were probably 7-8 players more important than Tevez here during that season.
He was a contributor, but he wasn't as good as he was later on at City/Juventus.
Bruno's been easily better for us all things considered. And I also can't stand watching him, so I'm not biased towards him.
If you made a thread, I'm pretty sure most would pick Bruno at United over Tevez at United. The only argument is that Tevez simply featured in a much better team.
Oh, I see. I can’t argue with you there!Yeah well it was more about him being loved. Here in Argentina he was considered the player of the people. He pretended to be a humble guy, but I always felt the opposite. People were defending him at all costs. In the end he turned out to be a shitty person for many things he did and said.
I have this feeling about Bruno aswell. I feel like he's not a positive leader to have at the Club.
Bruno disrespectful? NoI don't know how it was disrespectful, Bruno has played there in the past no? My point is he had to run more than he normally would because of 10 men.. Just didn't help his cause. Apart from that back flick that ended up creating a chance for them, I thought he was ok.
Bruno disrespectful? No
Our approach to the game was disrespectful to Southampton. It could’ve worked and we’d all be harping on about how far ahead of them we are but it didn’t. We just exposed what our limitations as a squad are.
In top flight football you don’t underrate the opponent because it’s a game of fine margins.
There's a gigantic gap between being a controller and having no composure. If you have no composure you can't be the attacking midfielder for an elite team.You can't then blame him can you. We all know he has no composure yet he started deep in midfield. We also tried to get De Jong because there is an understanding that we need someone to control the game. Not all midfielders are controllers.
Yeah, strange that. He was fecking terrible that year.People often seem to forget that Tevez was crap in his second season at United.
I agree with some of the criticism being too harsh. Except from a few very stupid moments he was alright.I think criticism of him yesterday his harsh. We were down to ten and he was basically playing several positions at once and I thought played well. I understand peoples frustrations but still so much of our better attacking play goes through him and we look less potent on the rare occasions that hes out. We've had a tough break with eriksen out and the casemiro suspension, and now another, especially in a season with so many games. I really dont think theres any big issues with Fernandes and expect him to remain in the team and likely even improve further as other areas are improved upon.
2 months without him period would obviously be bad but it wouldn't really prove the point you'd want. It would need to be 2 months without him but actual proper cover to replace him, and if we're still shite, then yeah.These fans need to see how we play 2months without him.
Yes but this fan base wanted Sancho ( a player directly in comp vs bruno) whilst also wanting to sell Rashford ; this fanbase wont exactly know how to improve a team. Ten hag isnt pep & played great CL transitional football whilst not dominating possesion for ajax. We dont need to play like city, if we did ten hag could have played casemiro, fred & eriksen which he didnt do once. What do you think of casemiros progressive passes from deep? that should be stopped to retain possesion too?2 months without him period would obviously be bad but it wouldn't really prove the point you'd want. It would need to be 2 months without him but actual proper cover to replace him, and if we're still shite, then yeah.
We'd probably look fecking atrocious if De Gea was out right now for 2 months with Heaton or Butland taking his place, but that doesn't mean De Gea is a player we cannot replace or improve upon.
And who would that actual, proper cover be and where would the resources for him come from? If Sancho and Eriksen are not proper enough, who is?It would need to be 2 months without him but actual proper cover to replace him, and if we're still shite, then yeah.
Eriksen isn't here right now, but I do think a midfield three of Casemiro, (fully recovered) Eriksen, and another midfielder for 2 months would be fair for this hypothetical scenario to see just how badly we perform without Bruno.And who would that actual, proper cover be and where would the resources for him come from? If Sancho and Eriksen are not proper enough, who is?
I mean, if we're just reverting to lazy rhetoric about fans knowing little -- what's the point of facilitating discussion on a forum? Let's all pack it in.Yes but this fan base wanted Sancho ( a player directly in comp vs bruno) whilst also wanting to sell Rashford ; this fanbase wont exactly know how to improve a team. Ten hag isnt pep & played great CL transitional football whilst not dominating possesion for ajax. We dont need to play like city, if we did ten hag could have played casemiro, fred & eriksen which he didnt do once. What do you think of casemiros progressive passes from deep? that should be stopped to retain possesion too?
I’m not of this conclusion because we drew or took a red. I’m a believer in fine margins and you don’t put yourself in a compromising position at top level football. A 2 man midfield of Casemiro and Bruno was a step too far more. It worked against Betis because they had the protection of Fred. People are ignoring the dreadful time Casemiro was having before the red.Don't think EtH underestimated them, if you saw the pre match presser he clearly mentioned their strengths and how they beat Chelsea. I think he experimented by trusting Casemiro to play the lone DM and Bruno to have a free role. When Casemiro got sent off, we couldn't cope.
Eriksen would have to quite strongly step up with the numbers for the team to not be completely toothless. And if in that midfield Casemiro or Fred have a bad game, I would expect the exact same problems to pop up that we have with Bruno. Especially considering Bruno is much more active defensively than Eriksen.Eriksen isn't here right now, but I do think a midfield three of Casemiro, (fully recovered) Eriksen, and another midfielder for 2 months would be fair for this hypothetical scenario to see just how badly we perform without Bruno.
You do realise Eriksen has more assists in the Premier League this season than Bruno right?Eriksen would have to quite strongly step up with the numbers for the team to not be completely toothless. And if in that midfield Casemiro or Fred have a bad game, I would expect the exact same problems to pop up that we have with Bruno. Especially considering Bruno is much more active defensively than Eriksen.
Look at their numbers over their PL seasons. Christian Eriksen has better stats than Bruno and he wasn't even on penalties. He's always been the more creative one and a more complete number 10. The issue is not that, but rather his stamina.Eriksen would have to quite strongly step up with the numbers for the team to not be completely toothless. And if in that midfield Casemiro or Fred have a bad game, I would expect the exact same problems to pop up that we have with Bruno. Especially considering Bruno is much more active defensively than Eriksen.
Eriksen is on the same level as Bruno in terms of goal contributions per 90', playing much more restricted role than Bruno. Both have been unlucky this season, Bruno with assists and Eriksen with his shooting.Eriksen would have to quite strongly step up with the numbers for the team to not be completely toothless. And if in that midfield Casemiro or Fred have a bad game, I would expect the exact same problems to pop up that we have with Bruno. Especially considering Bruno is much more active defensively than Eriksen.
Look at their numbers over their PL seasons. Christian Eriksen has better stats than Bruno and he wasn't even on penalties. He's always been the more creative one and a more complete number 10. The issue is not that, but rather his stamina.
He has 0.3 assists per 90 from 0.11 xA per 90 from open play. This is not really a thing that you can count on to stay indefinitely. Although he's much better at set pieces than Bruno, that's not really debatable.You do realise Eriksen has more assists in the Premier League this season than Bruno right?
In almost twice as many games, this is a bit of an important point. He's always been an excellent set piece taker too and got a ton of assists from corners and free kicks.Look at their numbers over their PL seasons. Christian Eriksen has better stats than Bruno and he wasn't even on penalties. He's always been the more creative one and a more complete number 10. The issue is not that, but rather his stamina.
What do you mean by this exactly? Even completely ignoring Bruno playing pretty much every position outside of defence at some point of this season, their average positions are pretty much at the same distance from goal when they played together in midfield, defensive contributions are easily on Bruno's side. Eriksen is better at recycling passes, but I'm not sure how much of a restriction for him it really is that would be lifted without Bruno and I'm really unsure whether this is a massive benefit that outweighs everything else.Eriksen is on the same level as Bruno in terms of goal contributions per 90', playing much more restricted role than Bruno.
Neither am I, but I'm much less of a fan of Fred, when there is no need to man mark the best midfielder on the other team.I would love to see Casmiro behind Fred and Eriksen, I always wanted to try this out. I am also not a fan of both Eriksen and Bruno on the pitch at the same time.
I'm comparing them season by season, not in total. Eriksen's last 4 out of 5 seasons for Tottenham, he had 20+ goals + assists in the league. Bruno has done that once for us where 9 of his 18 goals were penalties. That being said, this season isn't finished yet but his current stats don't seem promising with the amount of minutes he has played. As you say, Eriksen is also better at recycling passes and better in possession which is crucial for a midfielder, no?In almost twice as many games, this is a bit of an important point. He's always been an excellent set piece taker too and got a ton of assists from corners and free kicks.
That's a good catch about Eriksen assists from set pieces.He has 0.3 assists per 90 from 0.11 xA per 90 from open play. This is not really a thing that you can count on to stay indefinitely. Although he's much better at set pieces than Bruno, that's not really debatable.
In almost twice as many games, this is a bit of an important point. He's always been an excellent set piece taker too and got a ton of assists from corners and free kicks.
What do you mean by this exactly? Even completely ignoring Bruno playing pretty much every position outside of defence at some point of this season, their average positions are pretty much at the same distance from goal when they played together in midfield, defensive contributions are easily on Bruno's side. Eriksen is better at recycling passes, but I'm not sure how much of a restriction for him it really is that would be lifted without Bruno and I'm really unsure whether this is a massive benefit that outweighs everything else.
Neither am I, but I'm much less of a fan of Fred, when there is no need to man mark the best midfielder on the other team.
I genuinely think people think that the Tevez that played for Juve/City is the same Tevez that played for us.People often seem to forget that Tevez was crap in his second season at United.
Rooney was better at him then all of those things, by some way too.Most would. Bruno is a hero here and Tevez is seen as a snake who pretty much had one good season here. I will always disagree with that, though.
Just because he wasn’t as important as a few others doesn’t negate the impact he had. He was not a bit part player. He was key to our play. Defensively, him (and Rooney) helped us get away with a two man midfield, and offensively he was our best player at keeping the ball under pressure, our best player at holding the ball up for counters, was key to opening teams up with his link-up play.
Move Bruno to 8 and look what happens. A lot of talk here about how bad we are without Bruno, but while that is (thankfully) highly theoretical, what we can see clear as day is how much we miss Eriksen.Eriksen was a better player but we are not in the past, he isn't the same player and doesn't have the work rate like he used to.
Also he gives away possession a lot, midfielder with pass completion % in 70s is just terrible stat.
You need players who are good with the ball and also off the ball. Forget about the attacking runs, Bruno wins twice as many tackles as Eriksen, more tackles in defensive third, middle third and attacking third.
Bruno is arguably our worst dribbler but still he completes more dribbles (nearly 4X) than Eriksen.
If we had peak Eriksen then yes, it was debatable and more likely outcome would be Eriksen is better with decent margin, now in 2023? It's a non-contest.
Also not sure why Tevez and all are discussed or compared.
How much we really suffer without Eriksen though? Our record with Fred and Casemiro behind Bruno is really good. Our passing obviously looks much better with Eriksen in the team, but we also look fragile defensively/ especially defending transition.Move Bruno to 8 and look what happens. A lot of talk here about how bad we are without Bruno, but while that is (thankfully) highly theoretical, what we can see clear as day is how much we miss Eriksen.
Casemiro is being asked to do way to much without Eriksen next to him. Bruno might win more tackles, but that isnt what Casemrio needs next to him, he needs someone who can control the game, something neither Fred nor Mc Tomminay can do.
Eriksen is the only player in our team who has that ability.
Bruno offers something completely different, which we need just as much, but we do suffer without one or the other.
Is it? A lot of people have claimed that our latest results and the Liverpool one where simply down to fatigue.How much we really suffer without Eriksen though? Our record with Fred and Casemiro behind Bruno is really good. Our passing obviously looks much better with Eriksen in the team, but we also look fragile defensively/ especially defending transition.
I would make a case that Casemiro is being asked to do too much with Eriksen next to him, not Fred.
Please let's keep the individual quality of each Eriksen/Fred out of this discussion. I know Eriksen is the better player.
We had 10 menMove Bruno to 8 and look what happens.
That doesnt change that he is not suited for that role. He is much better further up the pitch.We had 10 men
I think he would be good as an 8. And he's barely played there for anyone to conclude otherwise.That doesnt change that he is not suited for that role. He is much better further up the pitch.
I dont see him as that type of player.I think he would be good as an 8. And he's barely played there for anyone to conclude otherwise.
