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Can Girona win La Liga? | 115 charges' trophies to be exhibited in Girona

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
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"sportswashing" is the Caf's parsley.

Real Madrid squad value: €1 billion
Barcelona squad value: €862 million
Atletico Madrid squad value: €472 million
Girona squad value: €161 million

Them breaking the tripoly would be awful for Spanish football, because ownership and sportswashing!

Anyways. Would be great if they win it. They went away to Barcelona and won the game not by playing cynical football. They built out of the back, created overloads, had runners in midfield, and defended well. Their play is sustainable over an entire season.

The only thing they probably should be fearful of is injuries.
 
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Pes6Monster

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"sportswashing" is the Caf's parsley.

Real Madrid squad value: €1 billion
Barcelona squad value: €862 million
Atletico Madrid squad value: €472 million
Girona squad value: €161 million
None of this matters.

It's still sportswashing.

Even if they have a back four of Mark E Smith, your nan on bongoes, us two and beat Bellingham at Bernabeu with 'horsechoker' scoring a hattie, it's still sportswashing.

It's dangerous to promote such political ideology, as evinced by the above narrative.

That said, it is what it is. If sportswashing is okay with you, that's fair enough.

But it's still sportswashing.
 

adexkola

Doesn't understand sportswashing.
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None of this matters.

It's still sportswashing.

Even if they have a back four of Mark E Smith, your nan on bongoes, us two and beat Bellingham at Bernabeu with 'horsechoker' scoring a hattie, it's still sportswashing.

It's dangerous to promote such political ideology, as evinced by the above narrative.

That said, it is what it is. If sportswashing is okay with you, that's fair enough.

But it's still sportswashing.
Nothing about my post promotes any political ideology.

I'll save a full reply for my upcoming thread: "A Caf scholar's summary of peer review articles covering the topic "Sportswashing""
 

Pes6Monster

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Nothing about my post promotes any political ideology.
Sportswashing supports political ideology. It's the entire point of the practice.

I'll save a full reply for my upcoming thread: "A Caf scholar's summary of peer review articles covering the topic "Sportswashing""
If you want to see a thriving 3-1-6 system like the one Ten Hag is trying to implement, watch Girona. They have the same set up, albeit with vastly different results I will explain here.

The primary difference is that Girona’s gaffer Michel has coached a system based on controlling games through possession and Ten Hag’s one, in his words, is based on using transitions as the best form of attack. As a result, the outcomes are different.

Girona’s build-up
Girona and United both employ a system based on 3 players in the 10 position (two CMs and usually a left-back). The difference is that Girona have far better tactics for getting the ball to their 10s than we do.

Girona are less rigid positionally than us. Michel gives his players a lot more freedom to move according to where a “plus one” is needed in order to create an overload. As a result, they aren’t as wedded to the 3-1-6 as we are. For example, their inverted left-back, Miguel Gutierrez may drop in alongside their sole DM (Aleix Garcia) if necessary to aid with progressing the ball through the middle to form a 3-2-5 which creates better passing angles.

Alternatively, one of their CMs can drop in to form a pivot and to either give the back 3 more passing options, or to bring out one of the opposing midfielders from his position and thus open up a passing lane into players in the forward positions.

Another tactic they have according how many opposing forwards are pressing is to drop Garcia between the defenders to create a 4 vs 3 overload that would leave one of the wide defenders free and allow him to step into midfield and progress the ball.

Girona’s players are also very good at rotating positions and covering for each-other, which is a testament to how well drilled and organised they are. This is a crucial aspect of how they move the opponent around in order to create space, while still keeping the 3-1-6 / 3-2-5 shape depending on the state of the game and how many opposing forwards are pressing.

For example, if Aleix Garcia (DM) drops into the back line, Miguel Gutierrez (LB) might invert to become the DM and then Daley Blind (LCB) might push up into the left half-space that Gutierrez usually occupies. Girona are all about creating numerical superiority all over the pitch, which is why, if you watch their games, it is often like they are playing with a man more.

United’s build-up
By contrast, United are very rigid under Ten Hag’s positional structure, and we often seem outnumbered. There are so many times that our three 10s - two attacking midfielders (Bruno and McTominay/Mount) plus the left-back - are stood behind two of the opposition’s defensive lines and our defenders and DM cannot take the risk and pass the ball to them as the passing lanes are closed.

We then end up pumping it long or into the channel for a low percentage change of forcing a turnover closer to the opponent’s goal. Alternatively, we try to progress the ball from wide positions, but this isn’t easy as the touchline is ultimately the opponentbest defender and limits your options.

In fairness to Girona, they have Daley Blind who would be doing what Lisandro is doing for us now. As we have seen from Blind, he is an expert at zinging passes between the lines for forward players to recieve in dangerous central positions.

Why Girona are better than United at going direct
Girona do go direct from time to time, but there is a difference between how they do it and we do it. An example of this would be their third goal today away at Barcelona.

They went long from a 3-2-5 position that brought out more Barcelona players for the high-press. Barcelona basically had their front 3 on Girona’s back 3 and two furthest CMs on Girona’s pivot. This meant Barcelona’s pivot had to move forward to back up the press, which they felt safe to do so as it left Barcelona’s defenders 3 vs 3 with Girona’s forward line.

The goalkeeper punted it forward to the right where Girona’s CF (Stuani) and RW (Valery) were followed by Barcelona defenders. Savio stayed far on the left which created a big gap between Kounde (RCB) and Barcelona’s other defenders. From Stuani’s flick on, Valery simply ran in the space and scored after Kounde was slow to intercept because he was wary of leaving Savio free.

On the other hand, we often go long from a 3-1-6 where the opponent is wary of commiting too many players to pressing us high up the pitch because: a) they don’t need to as our ball progression is poor and b) our three 10s do not make movements to drag the opponents out of their shape.

Our three 10s often stay still due to our positional rigidity which plays into the opponent’s hands with regards to maintaining their shape. This ensures that it is both harder for us to win second balls, and even if we do win the second ball, we aren’t finding players in space against a disorganised shape that would enable us to, as intended, create chances from turnovers high up the pitch.

Girona: attacking with patience and possession

One of Girona’s main tactics for chance creation is to overload the right to bring the opponent across before switching it over to the left in space for their winger Savio to stand up the opposing full-back one on one. In these situations, Miguel Gutierrez is also incredible when making underlapping runs. If you get a chance to watch the highlights of the Barcelona game, you will see how many chances he got (he also scored) by creating overloads on that side.

The key difference between Girona and us is that they are a lot less vertical and direct, and by extension, more compact. Last season, they had more of a destroyer in the 6 position in the form of Oriol Romeu and, as a result, played more directly in the hope that he would mop up.

They in fact showed the same vulnerabilites to transitions that we did and conceded 55 goals, which was the fifth worst of 20 teams. As of now, they have conceded 20, which is not great but it is the 8th best defensive record. They also have the most goals this season. So, what has been the difference?

They lost Romeu and Aleix Garcia, who is not a great tackler or defender took his position as the #6 in the team. This forced Girona to be more patient with the ball and not force risky passes as they want to hide Garcia’s weaknesses in defending large spaces in isolation and speedy counter-attacks. Compare that to us having our #6, whether it is Cas, Eriksen, Mainoo, Amrabat or McTominay, being tasked with essentially mopping up a burst dam with a tissue.

Girona are especially very compact on their right-side. Players are usually in close proand they create triangles. Of course, one of the attacking benefits of this has already been stated: it brings the opposition across to create space out wide on the far side for Savio and Gutierrez. This also facilitates overloads on the right for better crossing opportunities and cutbacks.

Moreover, the compactness of players on the right means that if the ball is lost, they are in good positions to close the space quickly and efficiently to make it harder for the opponent to play through them.

United: direct attacks and vulnerability to transitions
By contrast, at United under Ten Hag, while we attempt to create overloads, the compactness is not there. If we lose the ball, we are easy to counter against. This risk is multiplied by the fact that we are not patient on the ball. We try to force the play with risky passes. We are too direct. Due to our poor and rigid shape in the build-up, we are seldom in positions to even sustain pressure or break down a parked bus because we go direct too early.

Then once our attack inevitably breaks down, we are played through either because a) our players are too far apart from each-other or b) our man-oriented press is moved around by the opponent to open up space in the middle for them to charge through.

TL/DR / Summary

  • Girona’s 3-1-6 is far better than ours because it occaisonally becomes a 3-2-5 with a pivot to make ball progression easier.
  • Girona play with more positional freedom but in a structured manner: players rotate positions while keeping the same shape.
  • This allows Girona to create numerical superiority all over the pitch while also dragging the opponents out of their shape in order to create space and overloads.
  • United’s position rigidity allows the opponent to defend easily with a settled defensive shape.
  • Girona’s compactness on the ball also makes them far more stable than us in terms of defending transitions, with their patience aiding their ability to control the game, create chances and sustain pressure through posession.
  • This has the double impact of both reducing defensive transitions and ensuring that they are best equipped to defend them.
  • United’s lack of compactness makes us vulnerable to defensive transitions.
Awesome.
 

André Dominguez

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If Real, Barça and Atleti keep loosing points, things can go their way. They can emulate the Super Depor feature.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
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None of this matters.

It's still sportswashing.

Even if they have a back four of Mark E Smith, your nan on bongoes, us two and beat Bellingham at Bernabeu with 'horsechoker' scoring a hattie, it's still sportswashing.

It's dangerous to promote such political ideology, as evinced by the above narrative.

That said, it is what it is. If sportswashing is okay with you, that's fair enough.

But it's still sportswashing.
I'll never forget when the entire Bernabéu stood and clapped
 

Rapsel

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If they win La Liga then Daley Blind will have won the title with his team every year except his United years. :lol:
 

Sarni

nice guy, unassuming, objective United fan.
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"sportswashing" is the Caf's parsley.

Real Madrid squad value: €1 billion
Barcelona squad value: €862 million
Atletico Madrid squad value: €472 million
Girona squad value: €161 million

Them breaking the tripoly would be awful for Spanish football, because ownership and sportswashing!

Anyways. Would be great if they win it. They went away to Barcelona and won the game not by playing cynical football. They built out of the back, created overloads, had runners in midfield, and defended well. Their play is sustainable over an entire season.

The only thing they probably should be fearful of is injuries.
It's baffling that people seem to think it's an oil club with vast amounts of money. Their budget is not dissimilar to mid-table La Liga teams and they have been bouncing between La Liga and Segunda since Abu Dhabi has owned them, getting promoted back into La Liga in 2022 only.

They'll likely remain this way too.
 

JuriM

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Why not, they don't have that thin squad and if they don't get insane injury issues, they should be fine.
 

Rapsel

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Why not, they don't have that thin squad and if they don't get insane injury issues, they should be fine.
Plus they already have 14 different players that have scored. Very important you don't have to depend on two players scoring goals for your team.
 

tomaldinho1

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Likely not but it does show the steady decline of La Liga's big teams - you can expand that to the CL more broadly as well.
 

WeePat

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This, people said that about city in the early days about competition etc but it broke the league and lo and behold the Saudis etc are buying in now.

Girona are basically mini city , the funniest thing about this is if they finish above city respectively , city won’t be in the CL as only one team from the same ownership group can be in the CL and league place decides which it is.
Is that actually true? Does that mean their CL place would go to the team that finished directly below them? So teams in the 5-8 bracket in the PL should hope for Girona to finish top 2 at least?
 
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Zen86

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Good for Girona, always good to see the little guy City Football Group doing well.
 

RedRocket9908

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If Girona win La Liga that could cause a major headache for City Football Group as Girona and City wont be allowed in the Champions League at the same time
 

tomaldinho1

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If Girona win La Liga that could cause a major headache for City Football Group as Girona and City wont be allowed in the Champions League at the same time
They will just sell the club to another company at a good price - that company will have some random UAE owner and be in no way linked to CFG
 

JuriM

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This, people said that about city in the early days about competition etc but it broke the league and lo and behold the Saudis etc are buying in now.

Girona are basically mini city , the funniest thing about this is if they finish above city respectively , city won’t be in the CL as only one team from the same ownership group can be in the CL and league place decides which it is.
That's only on paper - Red Bull Salzburg & Red Bull Leipzig are both in Champions League.
 

André Dominguez

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If they win La Liga then Daley Blind will have won the title with his team every year except his United years. :lol:
Not so surprising nowadays, unfortunately. But to be fair, I started support United in the late 80s, and the first time I saw us wining title was 92/93, so I'm not that worried about this dark patch yet.
 

RedRocket9908

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They will just sell the club to another company at a good price - that company will have some random UAE owner and be in no way linked to CFG
They'll probably try to get around it by gifting a few of their shares to Pep's brother and claiming they are only minority owners
 

WeePat

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Not so surprising nowadays, unfortunately. But to be fair, I started support United in the late 80s, and the first time I saw us wining title was 92/93, so I'm not that worried about this dark patch yet.
We can call it character building :lol:
 

tomaldinho1

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They'll probably try to get around it by gifting a few of their shares to Pep's brother and claiming they are only minority owners
Per Guardiola's newly formed company, Guardiola Football Group
We are in no way shape or form linked or associated with CFG, Pep Guardiola or the UAE. Except in terms of financial support and backing, in which case, yes, we are joined at the hip. Sponsored by Etihad Airways and CAS.
 

carvajal

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At least in Spain there is not a deep debate about them being part of City. And it's not like they're going to get Julián Álvarez on loan. They have a cheap squad.
It's an artificial team(obviously not for the people of Girona), like Villarreal but at least healthy, which is enough in today's liga.
I don't think the big teams are worried about what will happen in the long term as long as they have the super league on their minds.
One of them legendary legs of the finest Ibérico by any chance? :D
We always end up talking about Ibérico
:D . And yes, good example, perfect for Christmas.
 

troylocker

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"sportswashing" is the Caf's parsley.

Real Madrid squad value: €1 billion
Barcelona squad value: €862 million
Atletico Madrid squad value: €472 million
Girona squad value: €161 million

Them breaking the tripoly would be awful for Spanish football, because ownership and sportswashing!

Anyways. Would be great if they win it. They went away to Barcelona and won the game not by playing cynical football. They built out of the back, created overloads, had runners in midfield, and defended well. Their play is sustainable over an entire season.

The only thing they probably should be fearful of is injuries.
I don't back stateowned clubs and sportswashing is a huge problem, but Girona is a breath of fresh air in LaLiga from a footballing perspective this season. I'll give them that. I'd rather it was a different club breaking the tripoly though.

When it comes to sustainable play, I don't agree. They've played great, but not as great as the table suggests.
Against Barca they played very well, but it was still a robbery. They conceded 31 shots (totalling 4,25 xG) while only conceding 2 goals (Barca missed 4-5 sitters/+0,35xG shots), they also scored 4 goals from their 15 shots (totalling 2,94 xG).
So far this season no team in the top 5 leagues has outperformed their expected data as much as them. They have won 41 points from 26,65 xPts, they have scored 38 goals from 33,75xG and have conceded 20 goals from 26,92xGC....which is unsustainable over an entire season. If they win the league it will be a bigger upset than Leicester 15/16.

Fair play to them for hitting way above their level, but it's not sustainable.
 

adexkola

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When it comes to sustainable play, I don't agree. They've played great, but not as great as the table suggests.
Against Barca they played very well, but it was still a robbery. They conceded 31 shots (totalling 4,25 xG) while only conceding 2 goals (Barca missed 4-5 sitters/+0,35xG shots), they also scored 4 goals from their 15 shots (totalling 2,94 xG).
So far this season no team in the top 5 leagues has outperformed their expected data as much as them. They have won 41 points from 26,65 xPts, they have scored 38 goals from 33,75xG and have conceded 20 goals from 26,92xGC....which is unsustainable over an entire season. If they win the league it will be a bigger upset than Leicester 15/16.

Fair play to them for hitting way above their level, but it's not sustainable.
Thanks for the added context. I managed to catch most of their game against Barcelona. Barcelona did have some shots at goal and could have been more clinical, but apart from being clinical in front of goal, Girona looked very competent between the boxes, something that xG will overlook.

But now that you've mentioned they've consistently overperformed their xG I expect the dip to come soon.
 

Botim

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Are people complaining about sportswashing and unfair competition really insinuating that up until now La Liga was a fair competition?
 

NewGlory

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Are people complaining about sportswashing and unfair competition really insinuating that up until now La Liga was a fair competition?
But, but, but - until now it was corrupted by people who were close to Madrid and fit well into generally acceptable system of corruption (GAS-C)
 

Mb194dc

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They can win it but it's still massive long shot.

Despite awful injuries to RM and FCB weakening them.
 

Pes6Monster

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Are people complaining about sportswashing and unfair competition really insinuating that up until now La Liga was a fair competition?
Nope.

Just that with sportswashing around, a bad problem is going to get a lot worse.

If anything, this franchise will increase the attendant problems of elitism. Likely see them loan players across franchises and give one another money to circumvent FFP.
 
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Martin(6)Buchan

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Thought they were going to come unstuck at Barca last night, but credit to them it was a great win. Will they do a Leicester probably not Real Madrid will be too strong in the end
 

Iker Quesadillas

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So far this season no team in the top 5 leagues has outperformed their expected data as much as them. They have won 41 points from 26,65 xPts, they have scored 38 goals from 33,75xG and have conceded 20 goals from 26,92xGC....which is unsustainable over an entire season.
That gap between xG/G, xGA/GA isn't really that big. No reason it can't sustain itself over the whole season.
 

VP89

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If Leicester did it, why not them?
Would be a historic football achievement.
Because the other sides aren't in a transitional year. I agree that it would be fantastic but I see them dropping off. They might have a top 4 year though.