Thank heavens for small mercies! That's all Europe needs. Mr Juncker ordering a EU army, wearing jackboots no doubt, into a sovereign country to 'protect' its citizens.
Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Thank heavens for small mercies! That's all Europe needs. Mr Juncker ordering a EU army, wearing jackboots no doubt, into a sovereign country to 'protect' its citizens.
Didn't know it.
And I hate them when they do that. I hate brutality from whoever it comes. And If after that Mossos Charges they would take a proud picture I would think and tell the same.
But you know? It wasn't them yesterday
But you know? It wasn't them yesterday
They're spread out throughout Spain, I remember visiting Mallorca once and being seated on the plane next to two elementary school teachers who had been on the island for a few generations - they were very proud CatalansDon't they speak catalan in The Balearic Islands? I remember working in London with a guy from Mallorca who tried to teach me a little catalan
The knock on effect I was referring to though was more about the other autonomous regions in Spain - the Basque are well known but they are one of many and the Franco reminder was clearly on display for the entire region on Sunday
North Sea oil is very expensive extract and with oil prices being volatile the Scottish economy has been struggling. 2016 subsidies from Westminster were at record levels.
With the collaboration of Mossos all those scenes could have avoided
Our flight is still running as far as we know. Had it booked for a few months now. Is it really going to be chaos? Don't really want to go now. Funny thing is this holiday was booked from compensation from another disaster holiday too
Nauseating post trying to spin unprovoked violence by Spanish forces, well done you have a future as a Trump press secretary
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With all due respect but what is currently happening in Spain goes beyond basic decency. Id wish anyone (UK, EU, US, Russia, martians) can find a way how to stop this madness and protect the innocent citizens there
Thank heavens for small mercies! That's all Europe needs. Mr Juncker ordering a EU army, wearing jackboots no doubt, into a sovereign country to 'protect' its citizens.
Ok, as I read several times some doubts about who speaks catalan. Geography/hiustory/linguistics and perceptions
Catalonia was formed by Franc counts to protect Carlomagne kingdom from the advance of the arabs. Eventually, what is conformed roughly today catalonia, was under the dominion of the count of barcelona. He married a princess of aragon (dinasty close to the castillian part) Aragon spole spanish, catalonia catalan. different parliaments laws and currencies
count of barcelona dn king of aragon, decided with the parliament of catalonia to invade the moors in Balearic Islands and Valencia. It was repopulated mostly with Catalans. That is why they speak Valencian and Balearic that is a dialect of catalan or catalan is a dialect of them to not offend different sensibilities. Also we conquered Murcia that we gave to Castilla to leave us alone.
We conquered Greece after we went there to protect the bizantins from the turks. The bizantins thought, feck, they are worse than the turks and they killed our captain, and we just kill them all and conquered Greece.(they still have songs about how badly we smell and they sang it to scare the kids, we were pretty barbaric)
We conquered half Italy, killed a whole town in Alghero in Sardenya and they still speak a dialect of catalan.
Our king married the castillian queen and voila. Spain but with different parliaments, currency and laws
Catalonia was bigger up north, but with a treaty Spain/France, they gave a portion to France, that is why in a small area in France some still speak catalan
Franco reorganized the spanish map cutting a chunck of catalonia and gave it to aragon, that is why in Aragon, there is a small portion that they speak catalan
About 13 millions knows the language in 3 different countries and about 4/5 millions speaks it as main language
This is, of course simplification and some data might be wrong as I speak by heart.
It should solve some doubts
With the Police and Guardia Civil not being there all that could be avoided
I think that the EU would like to avoid that. Everyone outside Spain is disgusted about the way you have been treated, me included.
However, the EU works with an unanimity rule which means that Spain can sabotage Catalonia's entrance in the EU. There's plenty of countries who will protect that right, some because they don't want the EU to mess in their 'sovreignity', others simply because they don't want the EU to use this as a way to bring new countries in the EU (Catalonia would be a new country) while others just don't want to lose their veto in stopping others from entering the EU.
Please distinguish between what I want and what I think will happen. For example I wish that we signed Ronaldo but we both know its not going to happen
To be fair, this footage could be from at any point in his career.
Oh, definitely I distinguish. You don't know much my political leaning, I do yours as I read you a lot in the brexit forum
I am just asking your opinion about the odd situation of First, Spain having to negociate with catalonia about the part of the debt that they should pick
And the part of 7.5 millions having all rights in the UE but the UE people not having any when they go to Catalonia
I image. The Basque Country has always supported Irish Independence as well.
Not a good time for him.
If Catalonia get independence then I guess they will automatically lose their Spanish citizenship. I also cant see Spain taking Catalonia's regional government's debts. I am aware of article 11.2. However good luck stopping Spain from changing that article if Catalonia leaves Spain.
Also what would happen if the EU decides to impose borders and high tariffs to everything produced in Catalonia? What happens if it loses freedom of movement of labour to the Spanish or French market?
Have you ever seen it?
Explain me why. Since you have such a clear opinion. Why do you think mediation or collaboration between forces would not have prevented those scenes.
Honestly, I think you have no fecking idea of the situation.
Have you lived in Spain or do you have direct contact with the situation? You have no capacity for self-criticism so I´d say that not too much.
I think that some upper class catalan invited you to a yacht and told you about the repression of Catalonia, history that you repeat as a parrot, and of course attacking spaniards and Spain in every occasion.
You've been writing both here and in la liga thread, and logically as we know you we ignored you.
No, they would not lose spanish citizenship. that is something already discussed and accepted by the president of spain in an hipotetical independence. As southamericans and filipino's with spanish parents they have spanish citizenship
Spain would not take catalonia's debt. the debt is from spain and the "address" is Kingdom of Spain. Catalonia is absolutely not bound to that, only to the regional debt. Spain will continue to have the same debt but with less GDP so instead 100% debt, would have 125%
Which ones are next for you?
Funny you ask for collaboration when Spain explicitely forbids the Mossos for the INTERPOL terrorist database since ALWAYS and diminished anything that they do. What kind of collaboration are you seeking. Hipocresy
Not living in Spain and Catalonia does not forbid to give your opinion and if someone does not know things, explain them to him instead of excluding him
Good luck convincing Spain not to amend their constitution to stick one to you after you're gone and to give you everything without you paying (or assuming responsibility about anything). This sort of cherry picking would make Brexiters proud.
I think what would happen is that Spain will amend its rules + it with use its veto rights to make sure to cut you out of the EU. Hard borders will surround Catalonia, business will move to Spain and the country will suffer.
That's why you need to wait for the right moment to do this. We waited decades before we asked for independence and we only did so when we were certain that the British empire wont use its enormous fleet to starve us out.
Only realistic ones are Bascs, but they might have less incentive and less popular support (and they are less population too)
Think a lot of things have changed after ETA handed over its weapons in april.
Oh, so now they can touch the constitution but not for a referendum?
Do you know how many people don't want to be catalan? do you know how entangled are the families? do you know that mostly everybody has a relative and friend there? good luck with approving that kind of things and pissing (more) spanish off.
Is not cherry picking. Debt is a FACT
Geography is a FACT
citizenship is a conditional Fact.
And in the end, we will accept the consequences. AS I said, less wealthy but free of the spanish government
Why is there not more emphasis on riot police literally beating people? In a Western country for christ sake.
mmm, change changed, but it payed a big toll of how independentism is perceived. Also, they already have a perfect economic agreement so there is no economic independentism that is the big part currently in catalonia.
Well they certainly will, if you ask for independence. Its pretty much like Brexit. Once you're out then you'll automatically become rivals. Spain will use every trick in the trade to drive as much business as possible out of Catalonia. With the EU being the way it is then they'll probably manage to do a great deal of damage.
I sympathise alot with your cause mainly because we have a similar history. During the 1800s Malta kicked the Napoleonic troops out in a bloody civil war which caused a big chunk of our population. When the dust settled the Maltese pushed to remain part of the kingdom of Sicily but under the British protection (the latter helped in an embargo). Well, the Brits showed the middle finger to the locals, turning that limited jurisdiction into a full blown colonisation. In few years, Malta was turned into a naval military base with people on it, which in turn, impoverished the islands to a ridiculous extent.
We could have rebelled but we happened to be an island and the British empire ruled the sea. One bad move and they could have easily starved us to death. Our only potential mate Garibaldi wasn't of any help either mainly because the British bankers bankrolled Italy's unification. So we waited up until the British empire was weak and only then we asked for independence.
Also stop thinking about other countries doing you favours. It won't happen. We share a great history with the Brits. All citizens in Malta were given the george cross and the queen's stay on the islands had been described as the best time of her whole life. That didn't stop the empire to cut jobs from the shipbuilding who nearly starved the island. Same can be said about Libya (ie we saved Gheddafi life in 86 and he thanked us by sending hordes of immigrants to our shore once we entered the EU). When the Arab spring started everyone lauded our efforts for saving expats caught in Libya. However, once immigrants started flocking into Malta none of these nations came to help
I only hope that the Catalonians made their homework as my ancestors did (including my grandpa). The current EU structure allows immense power to each individual state, which means, Spain can make your life a hell and no one within the EU can help. But things are bound to change shortly.
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Or they could have the same deal than Monaco, be a member through an other member. In the case of Monaco, France.
Could a similar deal be given if Spain is hostile to them though?
Not knowing much about it, I'm of the view the police and the Spanish government are in the wrong.
In terms of the referendum itself, why do they want it? Watched a vid on the bbc and the reasons people were giving were extremely unclear.
In terms of the referendum itself, why do they want it? Watched a vid on the bbc and the reasons people were giving were extremely unclear.
Oh I definitely know that We would become rivals and so the EU as Spain is from their club. That's why I am saying over and over that we are alone and EU will not do anything about it.
Though EU pressured Greece to accept changes. The only time in the History that Spain change something in the 1978 Constitution (that we call the untouchable) was a few years ago when EU pressured Spain to changed because of the deficit.
Spain has a veto, no doubt and other countries has not much interest in see how catalonia is independent as they have their own independentist movements. In the other way, EU is interested in have less powerful states
France is not in terested in having a none EU south their border (and if the basques follow us...
In a rational world, Spain is not interested to be virtually cut off Europe. Their products mostly passes through our territory (Tariffs) and the debt negotiation (I repeat, the debt would not be transferred without an agreement as is 100% spanish)
And europe I doubt will pass on having a net contributor and pro EU new State so pressure would be exerted
Slovenia referendum was considered ilegal by the EU, 10 days after the independence they recognize it as a country and in 2008 held the presidency of the EU.
Thnigs changes quick, pressures are exerted.
All depends how smart and how hard we work (no doubt in the second part) in an eventually independence time
Too many variables
I don't really know, I'm not even sure about how it works exactly. It seems that it's purely a deal between France and Monaco.
I sincerely hope you're right. As said, we share similar history.
They could but it would be a decision of Spanish federation and LaLiga. As I repeat, is not Barcelona decision at all. Anyway, is a price to pay and I would pay it happily even if barcelona would disappear
Andorra is playing in the spanish league and is solely because a deal with the federations
We are not talking about football but the EU. Monaco aren't members but they are still kind of members through France.
Because of incidents like these
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Oppressive states employ tactics like these and yet you shamelessly try to undermine both the severity and clear implication, the worst states do this to innocent & defenseless people. We are in Europe, where fascist regimes are a not so distant horror. Ask a local in Catalunya the difference between state police & Mossos, one you tremble from fear of while the other are human beings
Your affinities have been never been in doubt, supporting fascist tactics & spinning it is perfectly in line with that