Catalonia referendum| Catalonia declares independence from Spain

[4bars]

I think Ferrusola didn´t say it, but it´s well known that they didn´t allow their sons to play with charnegos or be near there. There are several quotes of Pujol talking about the rubbish from Andalucia and Extremadura.
The "charnegos al paredón" came in a meeting of ANC , a nationalistassociation
, mainly responsible of propaganda.
Forcadell (ex president of catalan parlament was president of this group). This was simply someone from the public shouting what they all think

Utterly disgusting. 1 person among lots. Not an entire unionist demonstration singing "cara el sol" the fascist song though. As I said, is a matter of comparisons. And as much you try, you can't find as many examples and it had plenty more demonstrations and meetings


And don't make me start about what many spanish politicians says about catalans

By the way, he, Victor Cucurull, the guy talking defends that Colón, Americo Vespucio,Santa Teresa de Jesús and Cervantes are catalans, but became spaniards for some kind of opression.

All unionist wish that anyone in catalonia would take his claims seriously. Nobody. But keep trying. Not the first time that I see that you put that guy here.

In the second video, a very popular presenter is called "charnego de mierda" because he doesn´t reply in catalan

Disgusting. this harms us more than anything.

But well, same examples on the other side. Way more insults mixed with menacing of running them over and of course, the fascist shout: " Arriba España"


Now real madrid fans. More insults and more fascist shout: " Arriba España"


And on an on. Insulting we will find examples in all places. But violence and fascism? is quite clear where you will find more.

In this last video, a mosso(catalan police) talks about andalusians, who according to him are all lazy and come to get public helps.

They get more public helps, that is absolutely true. Starting from the PER (around 70% is Andalucia and Extremadura and the rest 6 other comunities) and ending that is completely fair to subsidize the least developed areas. I am all for that. Lazy? no, not more than any other spanish or catalan. But the same andalusians say that we are stingy and every other region has their own cliche

That is the daily environment for many Catalans who do not agree
The next are the typical graffitis in front of political parties offices in small towns, this one was yesterday, to the Socialists in Vilanova i la Geltru, it says:
"you will never sleep quietly "

Spoiler

the next one is in Cataluña, in front of the house of the judge, Llarena "Llarena Fascist, not in Das(the town) or nowhere". After that someone gave the personal info about his wife, including the job location. Bodyguards have been sent to protect politicians and Llarena has been relocated to Madrid

Spoiler

As well there are grafitis for all tastes. As well for menacing the independentists...The difference? Calling them judes (without being), Svastikas, hitler fans....you name it

As I said in a post above, among the independentists, there are disgusting people. I can't pretend that is not like that with being millions. But the difference is in the qunamtity and SPECIALLY the quality. Much more violence and fascism/nazism among the unionist. You will not see fascist/nazi simbology among independentist demonstrations. NOT EVEN ONE.

 

[carvajal]

And who do you think has started this atmosphere of tension?
I don´t buy the "Spain is a fascist state and we Catalans have been the first to discover it", and all that about skipping all laws and then ask for democracy
It would be better to say that you consider Spaniards as second-class citizens, for cultural, racial reasons,economic,etc
Jordi Pujol ,the main inductor of all started years ago.
The "colono","charnego"and "they are lazy, come to steal" comes from far.

Spoiler: Pujol

"The Andalusian is not a coherent man, he is an anarchic man.
He is a man destroyed (...), he is generally a poorly made man, a man who has been starving for hundreds of years and who lives in a state of ignorance and cultural, mental and spiritual misery. He is an uprooted man, incapable of having a broad sense of community. He often gives evidence of an excellent human values, but from the outset it constitutes the sample of the lowest social and spiritual value in Spain.
I have already said before; he is a destroyed and anarchic man. If by force of the number it were to dominate, it would destroy Catalonia"

It seems to me that many reactions are a posteriori of this climate of tension, although I do not try to justify them.
You again bring football ultras to try to sell the idea of fascism.
In the same way you could say that the Germans are Nazis since the AFD is booming, or take videos of followers of the Lazio and say that the Italians are fascists.
I invite you to publish more of those graffitis, I have a lot. and as I say, there are politicians who begin to receive bodyguards.
Yesterday in the Parliament the independentistas groups refused to condemn the violence (there is a video in which they throw chairs to the mossos), as well as road cuts.
The ANC is one of the main promoters of hatred to Spain.
In another of the videos you show me a truck driver passing through Catalonia who shouts from the truck. Very elaborate.

The Andalusians receive helps, but the standard of living they have in Catalonia is mainly due to the industrial belt of Barcelona, of which they and extremeños are very responsible to be treated 30 years later as second class citizens.

 

[4bars]

And who do you think has started this atmosphere of tension?

The PP not respecting asking for signatures (and getting millions from "fellow spanish" that did not read a word of it) to go against the Estatut of Catalonia that was votet and agreed by the SPANISH parliament maybe? Thank you neighbour to be so nice and not so anti-catalan

I don´t buy the "Spain is a fascist state and we Catalans have been the first to discover it", and all that about skipping all laws and then ask for democracy

No, we are not the first to discover it, we are the only ones that we are fighting it


It would be better to say that you consider Spaniards as second-class citizens, for cultural, racial reasons,economic,etc

Dont put words that I would never say and never thought. The only ones that use nazi and supremacist simbology are unionist


Jordi Pujol ,the main inductor of all started years ago.
The "colono","charnego"and "they are lazy, come to steal" comes from far.

Spoiler: Pujol

"The Andalusian is not a coherent man, he is an anarchic man.
He is a man destroyed (...), he is generally a poorly made man, a man who has been starving for hundreds of years and who lives in a state of ignorance and cultural, mental and spiritual misery. He is an uprooted man, incapable of having a broad sense of community. He often gives evidence of an excellent human values, but from the outset it constitutes the sample of the lowest social and spiritual value in Spain.
I have already said before; he is a destroyed and anarchic man. If by force of the number it were to dominate, it would destroy Catalonia"


Again Syllogism. Is trendy now. Jordi pujol was catalan, independentist are catalan. Pujol is independentist. Nope. Pujol was the superfriend of the Constitucionalist and monarchy. He was never independentist and he said so many times( only the last few years said the opposite to gain simpathy) and we repudiated him when we discovered that he was a corrupt.

You make so much efforts tu put Pujol in the independentism, but oh sorry, nobody wants him. Good luck with that and good ridance. Try harder


It seems to me that many reactions are a posteriori of this climate of tension, although I do not try to justify them.
You again bring football ultras to try to sell the idea of fascism.

Hey, if you don't like it, is your problem. I put it on context and it was true, he was insulting catalans and shouting fascism. Not my fault. His. You can add him up at the 70 that got detained for nazi salute. But isolated eh?

In the same way you could say that the Germans are Nazis since the AFD is booming, or take videos of followers of the Lazio and say that the Italians are fascists.

Nope, I don't say that Spanish are fascist. I am not saying that the unionist are fascist. I am saying that the fascist are unionist. You know, A dog is animal but an animal is not a dog. Nice try though, well no, not very nice


I invite you to publish more of those graffitis, I have a lot. and as I say, there are politicians who begin to receive bodyguards.
Yesterday in the Parliament the independentistas groups refused to condemn the violence (there is a video in which they throw chairs to the mossos), as well as road cuts.

Oh, I just put some of them, just google. Is not about a war on grafitis. You seriously want to lose your time, and more important, my time on putting hundreds of pictures? You already did it in pages before. What I said, and I repeat, there is lots of cases in both parties, but the nazi simbology and fascist symbology is always from the same side.


What I would like to see is the video with the mossos and chairs, please. If is the same I have been seeing in social media lately, claiming were independentists, it was long ago and they were anarchist, but maybe you surprise me


The ANC is one of the main promoters of hatred to Spain.

Why? in which base? ANC promotes the catalan republic. Is like, PP-PSOE-Cs are the biggest promotor of catalan hate and i just leave it here because yes. Is your opinion, not a fact

In another of the videos you show me a truck driver passing through Catalonia who shouts from the truck. Very elaborate.

Oh, so yours are way more elaborate. your stupid indpendentist is more elaborate than my stupid unionist. Because...you worth it. At least I say is disgusting EVERY SINGLE TIME, you might agree for what I see.

The Andalusians receive helps, but the standard of living they have in Catalonia is mainly due to the industrial belt of Barcelona, of which they and extremeños are very responsible to be treated 30 years later as second class citizens.

Well, then if they receive helps is true, isn't it? don't expose like an unionist argument. Thanks for agreeing

The standard of living in Catalonia superior in many regions in Spain, is not only the last years, it is from the last hundreds of years, basically because geographically, in resources and historical events made that possible. Is not because catalans are better, nor because the Andalusians. That is why I think wealthier regions must help to develope less wealthy regions.

Then, second class citizens? it might happen, I feel second class citizen in Canada, basically because immigrating is hard, you most likely will have less money, you will continue generate less money and spend more than someone that has some ground. Less access to better education, etc...

Is normal, being poorer makes you, unfortunately second class citizen, xenofobic people will see you as lower class for the sole fact that you come from outside with million of excuses. Your kids will have it harder to climb the ladder... Is sad but that is capitalism and how people percieve other depending on status. And we have to work for that. And in Catalonia, there is no comparison what it was from the 60-80 at what it is now. Catalan society have assimilated the spanish immigration thanks to second and third generation and now they are part of the independentism too. And people like Rufian is among the ones more hated in Spains, because he represents the assimilation and they don't want that, they are comfortable with the argument that we despise immigrants and they see that is becoming less and less true

 

[carvajal]

we better leave it until the next episode. You overlook Pujol, who initiated all the disconnection measures with Spain, after giving you a regrettable comment. Also, you didn´t pay too much attention to what I have told you about direct threats to politicians and the increase of bodyguards. And you do not accept the reality of the ANC. We are not going to come to any understanding.

 

[4bars]

Pujol retired in 2003. Estatut was iniciated by the Socialist Party, not a catalanist party. And who iniciated this, was the people in 2010 where the first 1 million march started (while the socialist were in power in Catalonia).

So the threats of politicians of not my ideology means more than the threats the politicans of my ideology. Because I answered accordingly. A bulls eye in a catalan politician name or "shoot her" I think is a threat to me

Spanish look catalan politicians like masterminds and the devil. In 20 years you will say that Puigdemont was the mastermind of all that when Nobody knew him 2 years ago.

Catalanism and Independentism It existed from Centuries. In the 30's we declared twice the Catalan Republic. I know that Pujol was born in 1930. But you think that he prepared all that with just 2 years old as well?

You try to personalize a conflict that had been going on centuries. Everybody have certain influences, but I tell you that my influence are my family. Not Pujol, and them their families, etc...

You make it sound like nothing was going on in Spain and everybody felt Spanish but suddenly someone said...no no no, you are catalan, and we learnt by art of magic a new language, and new traditions.

The fact thad my dad can't write properly his own language because was forbidden is just because he never knew catalan, it was Jordi Pujol who taught him how to speak, but never write.

The Reality of ANC it was promoting the indpendence of Catalonia, not the hatred towards spain. We have more than enough with M. Rajoy and the likes, they are the true promoters, way more than ANC


And I agree, we should stop (even if you said you would be a week here), is just you and me and we bore the rest to death. What I learnt from you is


- Fake news are catalan: Spain, with all the public TV's and the privates Aligned, the same as radios papers. Political power, money is uncapable to control the Catalan fake news, with a local catalan TC, some radios, a couple of relevant news papaers with the catalan government interviened, no control with the finances whatsover. We are fecking killing it.

- Indpendentists are violent: Catalan politicians saying over and over peaceful protests, people with the hands up shouting we are peacuful people. Policmen beating the shit out of them and not answering violently. Unionist manifestations menacing with knives, sticks, hitting people, fascist and nazi proclaims....

-We wrongly spend money for independentist causes: Even if the Spanish government recognized for now this end, Catalans voted majority in the parliament to start a process to go towards the independentism, so is not logical to spend money on what the voters asked you to do? if voters asks you to build a bridge, you dont have to comply? Meanwhile, Spanish government spend shitloads of money in policemen inside ships that dont do anything (beside destroying some bar sayind " THIS IS SPAINS" true story, not as epic as in sparta I presume)

-Only catalan breaks the law: the police entering with judiciary law to register buildings, the police using forbidden rubber bullets, the judge not allowing the legal right of a politician in prison to be invested president, disolving the catalan govenrment when the 155 it does not see that premise, intervene the generalitat before the 155...Whatever spainish government does is legal, whatever a catalan does is illegal

And so many

Next events? Puigdemont will be extradite. Sad day for me, joyful for you. But is a conflict that lasted centuries, and is a long time that we did not reach that point, and next generation we will be more and with more experience, and the migrants first generation that they logically and rightfully feel spanish, will die and the 2nd generation and 3rd will feel more catalan than the previous generation (logically and rightfully) with their spanish culture (proudly) inside them too. Is just a matter of time, a lot of time but you know that catalans are patient

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[4bars]

No extradition for rebellion in Germany, nor in Belgium, nor in UK nor in Switzerland...

All the lies that the spanish government and the judiciary system had been building up to accuse of rebellion all the catalan politicians based in violence is overthrown in any european country so far as they do not see violence at all. Other european countries they don't even take seriously the european arrest warrant because it is obvious that they are political prisoners despite the effort of Spain and europe to officially not put that name on them because they would recognize the facto that Spain is deriving in an authoritarian country driven by the hidden neofascits now not as hidden.

Maybe they will get extradited because embezzlement. Just because they spent money in a cause that the majority of the parliament voted by the catalans asked, so it would be as well a shame to put someone in prison to do what their voters asked for. It would work for Spain because they would sell it as a victory and would allow Germany to save face in front a fellow state of the european club that they call EU. But the main cause, rebellion is so obvious that is not true, as the only violence was from the spanish police and later from the unionist fascists groups, that it would be a blatant disgrace for any half decent judiciary system

Today, is another shameful day for the spanish government and all of them that they agree (millions) in their policies of how they are dealing with the catalan conflict, now in an international scale. A big slap on the face. Unfortunately, not that they care much as any dictatorial behavior half witted

 

[4bars]

So far, Spain is acting as always, vengefully. Yesterday, as most probably they knew what was about to happen, the spanish justice had acused the head of the catalan police of sedition and being part of a criminal organization.

Criminal organization....
Criminal organization...

A guy that receive orders from his government that the only crime that committed was not charge against people that was not aggressive. Spanish government never could forgive him for tackling the Barcelona terrorist attack in August in les than 24 hours as they were expecting the catalan police to fail in a big ordeal like that. Not to forget that the terrorist responsible was a in the pay check of the Spanish Intelligence (if there is one).

 

[Kasper]

The pretty blut statement by the court that Puigdemonts behaviour would not be indictable in Germany really is a massive bitchslap into the face of the Spanish governments and exposes this farce. Love it tho, it also puts pressure on the German government, who has been hiding behind the judiciary so far, to deal with the situation.

 

[4bars]

Catalans spent so far 4 million in crowdfunded bails and lawyers for the politicians on trials and exiled. For Clara, the one in UK, they raised £200.000 in 18 hours

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/31/catalan-carla-ponsati-crowdfunding-scotland-spain

People keeps donating and donating

Just in case someone thinks the independence is a crazy idea of the politicians. We started it, we are sustaining it and we will finish it

 

[marktan]

Really glad that some sanity prevailed from Germany in this. The worst outcome would be making martyrs (jail) out of the politicians as it could incite the population to do drastic things.

The ideal outcome (in my opinion) is for some reason to return to Spain and for them to sit down with the Catalonian leaders and engage in dialogue and find a mutual way forward. But it seems what they're trying to do is surpress/play it down as much as they can and then hope that it'll all be forgotten in the longer-run. Which may happen, but it's a risky game to play.

 

[4bars]

Really glad that some sanity prevailed from Germany in this. The worst outcome would be making martyrs (jail) out of the politicians as it could incite the population to do drastic things.

The ideal outcome (in my opinion) is for some reason to return to Spain and for them to sit down with the Catalonian leaders and engage in dialogue and find a mutual way forward. But it seems what they're trying to do is surpress/play it down as much as they can and then hope that it'll all be forgotten in the longer-run. Which may happen, but it's a risky game to play.

They tried this from 2012 to mid 2016. Actually is a well known tactic of Mariano Rajoy. But now they are at full vengeful/repression mode. They will not back down till something terrible and sustained in time will happen. I hope doesn't happen. I prefer to remain in Spain before this happens

 

[4bars]

So, lots of citizens had been organizing by themselves. Localized and without any leader. Basically people that they know each other from their town, neigbourhood, very descentralized. No one leads them but themselves and in assemblies. They were born to organize the referendum to sneak successfully the ballot boxes from the spanish police.

Now they are growing and they are organizing civil disobedience actions like cutting roads or lifting toll barriers, putting yellow ribbons on places as a symbol of the political prisoners and other protests. All peaceful non violence civil disobedience.

They are growing large now, my friends are in it, my family. Just normal people. No political party...is the people like had been all this time

Now they grab a girl that sent on social networks some messages communication some of the actions that were about to happen.

She is charged of rebellion and terrorism. she could be jailed 30 years.

https://www.thelocal.es/20180410/court-probes-catalan-independence-activists-for-terrorism

What is the definition of terrorism and rebellion for Spanish state? is the right of protest abolished? 30 years really?

Spain is right there with Erdogan nowadays. They try to scare people, they had been trying to do it since always

Meanwhile a radio journalist, after the german trial freeing Puigdemont, asked bombs in German soil and that Spain had 200.000 german hostages in Mallorca. And he still there speaking on the radio, no hate crimes, nothing.

http://en.zappingnews.net/bild-journalist-espanol-llama-commit-acts-terrorists-against/


Others in twitter cheering for the Munster attack like : " Kharma exist"

Not the only tweet

 

[4bars]

Hey @carvajal

It was you, that you said that Catalonia with the government economically and politically intervened, with the government in prison and exile, with 99% of the media state oriented public and private, etc...that was in reality catalonia who had the resources to push fake news? just because a recused (2 times) minister said so.

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And then this shameful video of the spanish government trying to convince the uk committee with their always solid arguments



As they tried in Germany with Puigdemont and others. They are too used to do whatever they please without any proof, that when they go outside spain, their arguments is laughable

And it would be laughable if it would not be so sad the way the spanish government is acting. I hope history will show what Spain is doing to catalonia. Disgraceful

 

[Revan]

Manuel Rajoy is no more PM after narrowly losing a vote of no-confidence, socialist leader Pedro Sanchez is the new PM after being supported also from Catalan senators.

What does this mean for Catalonia?

 

[Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87]

Manuel Rajoy is no more PM after narrowly losing a vote of no-confidence, socialist leader Pedro Sanchez is the new PM after being supported also from Catalan senators.

What does this mean for Catalonia?

Hopefully a more pragmatic approach. Rajoy was a fascist in disguise.

 

[Stanley Road]

Manuel Rajoy is no more PM after narrowly losing a vote of no-confidence, socialist leader Pedro Sanchez is the new PM after being supported also from Catalan senators.

What does this mean for Catalonia?

Good riddance to him

 

[4bars]

Nothing is going to change. PSOE and PP are the same and with the catalonia problem exactly the same

In another news, PP (Rajoys party) had been considered as a criminal organization by a judge and that they did not belive Rajoy. Still lots of dirt that will not go to surfice

A raper that was condemned 3 years for singing against the king, fled spain last week, nobody knows where he is. Spains is looking for extradite him

Belgium, Scotland, Switzerland, Netherlands and Germany still don't deliver the catalan politicians to Spain

 

[4bars]

Spanish Judge that deals with the exiled catalan politicians withdrew the european extradition orders as the German judge declared that the former catalan president was not found guilty of rebellion and sedition. Another slap in the face on the spanish justice after the Belgium ones in the past. The other euroorders for the other politicians and Belgium, Scotland and Switzerland, had been withdrawn as well. They are all free to move around europe but not in their own country

 

[utdalltheway]

Watched Two Catalonias on Netflix last night. Interesting stuff but such a lot of early info that it’d need another viewing to get a handle on the various parties.

What’s the latest on the Catalans in prison? Said the Spanish judiciary was looking for 30 year sentences. Madrid already fecked up big time having the police attack voters October last year. Could lengthy jail sentences have a similar affect?

 

[Javi]

What’s the latest on the Catalans in prison? Said the Spanish judiciary was looking for 30 year sentences. Madrid already fecked up big time having the police attack voters October last year. Could lengthy jail sentences have a similar affect?

Some people are still in jail but I don't even know their names so it's hard for me to evaluate what sort of political reasoning is behind their fate. Puigdemont is still in exile, touring the continent to promote self determination AFAIK.

Spain has a new chief in town, Pedro Sanchez, and he's certainely moved away from Rajoys idiotic confronation tactics. He stated that he won't mess with the judiciary branch which I agree with, besides there is no point for him to gamble what little political capital he has on that.

 

[PedroMendez]

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/10/02/world/europe/ap-eu-spain-catalonia.html

 

[Tommy]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47190135

Police reckon there were 45,000 people there protesting for a united Spain.

 

[Javi]

They were protesting against Pedro Sanchez‘ dialogue course because too soft. Sanchez supports a united spain as well.

 

[4bars]

They were protesting against Pedro Sanchez‘ dialogue course because too soft. Sanchez supports a united spain as well.

I will not discuss the true purpose of the demonstration but, when 2 million over a population of 7 million in catalonia goes on the streets, the right wing people says that there is a silent majority that is asking the opposite, I guess that 45.000 over 47 million (some of them they were paid the bus from other places in Spain) means that there is a silent majority that they are asking to opposite, doesn't it? in this case dialogue.

Anyway, right wing in Spain is rampant and disgusting. Those parties that organized this demonstration are asking forbiding the abortion, kick the immigrants and stripe gender equality rights to the women. I really know what side is the right (pun intended) one.

 

[maniak]

Sanchez made it clear he won't pardon anyone. At this point I really don't know what catalans are supposed to do because there simply isn't a legal/democratic path to achieve their goal.

 

[4bars]

Sanchez made it clear he won't pardon anyone. At this point I really don't know what catalans are supposed to do because there simply isn't a legal/democratic path to achieve their goal.

It goes beyond catalonia. Is about the spanish institutions. Specially judiciary system and the executive passing on the branches of the police and military. All are heirs from the francoist ones, they are the people that were promoted from the dictatorship institutions

Going on the judiciary system recently

- Leaders in catalunya asking a referendum in peaceful manner had been condemned in average more than the 33 people that got prosecuted shoting in the spanish parliament doing a real coup d'etat
- Singers singing against the king and others with 1-3 years in prison or in exile
- street theater performance sized for the police because they were speaking about the terrorist group and isolated them in prevention prison for nothing, fortunately they were released
- Bar fight against police OUT OF SERVICE and dressed as normal people ended with a broken ankle. They were accused of terrorism and to the jail for almost 20 years
- A girl making a joke in twitter about a fascist from the fascist government killed in the early 70s got 1 year prison
- several independentists that had small pirotecnic elments from a party (well known and celebrated in catalonia) and lithium batteries got arrested under terrorism (and they are in jail waiting for trial) meanwhile a far right wing group with bazookas and AK47 got nothing
- a guy menacing with guns in a video at the president of catalonia, nothing
- the grandson of Franco (the later dictator) overrun a policeman being drunk and pointed with a gun to another and nothing

and more

The situation in Spain is hopeless in terms of a good governance. is a democracy with democratic institutions but ruled inside by fascists

Everybody identifies spain as friendly people, party, good food etc (and is true) but living there you know that sooner or later you will be treated like in a dictatorship if you don't fall through the right wing train of thought

And the worse is not the existence of the altright parties and fascist institutions, is that the left has 0 representation in the parliament (in reality, PSOE is right and Podemos failed miserably when they were able to get inside the parliament selling the soul of the ones that protested in 2012)

 

[carvajal]

It goes beyond catalonia. Is about the spanish institutions. Specially judiciary system and the executive passing on the branches of the police and military. All are heirs from the francoist ones, they are the people that were promoted from the dictatorship institutions

Going on the judiciary system recently

- Leaders in catalunya asking a referendum in peaceful manner had been condemned in average more than the 33 people that got prosecuted shoting in the spanish parliament doing a real coup d'etat
- Singers singing against the king and others with 1-3 years in prison or in exile
- street theater performance sized for the police because they were speaking about the terrorist group and isolated them in prevention prison for nothing, fortunately they were released
- Bar fight against police OUT OF SERVICE and dressed as normal people ended with a broken ankle. They were accused of terrorism and to the jail for almost 20 years
- A girl making a joke in twitter about a fascist from the fascist government killed in the early 70s got 1 year prison
- several independentists that had small pirotecnic elments from a party (well known and celebrated in catalonia) and lithium batteries got arrested under terrorism (and they are in jail waiting for trial) meanwhile a far right wing group with bazookas and AK47 got nothing
- a guy menacing with guns in a video at the president of catalonia, nothing
- the grandson of Franco (the later dictator) overrun a policeman being drunk and pointed with a gun to another and nothing

and more

The situation in Spain is hopeless in terms of a good governance. is a democracy with democratic institutions but ruled inside by fascists

Everybody identifies spain as friendly people, party, good food etc (and is true) but living there you know that sooner or later you will be treated like in a dictatorship if you don't fall through the right wing train of thought

And the worse is not the existence of the altright parties and fascist institutions, is that the left has 0 representation in the parliament (in reality, PSOE is right and Podemos failed miserably when they were able to get inside the parliament selling the soul of the ones that protested in 2012)

they had plans of civil guard barracks and they are recording conversations for a year and a half.
Torra was also recorded offering coberture to the CDR,those that are burning Barcelona and I wouldn't be surprised if he also knows the guys that wanted to do a "pirotecnic party".
You are defending the fecking bar fight against guardia civil,and ETA!.
Hopefully one day you will say something out of place and they will ban you out of the forum.
I feel anxiety reading so much crap.
Please do not bother answering, but I could not stop replying the pyrotechnics party part

 

[4bars]

they had plans of civil guard barracks and they are recording conversations for a year and a half.
Torra was also recorded offering coberture to the CDR,those that are burning Barcelona and I wouldn't be surprised if he also knows the guys that wanted to do a "pirotecnic party".
You are defending the fecking bar fight against guardia civil,and ETA!.
Hopefully one day you will say something out of place and they will ban you out of the forum.
I feel anxiety reading so much crap.
Please do not bother answering, but I could not stop replying the pyrotechnics party part

Yeah, those plans were from a police station abandoned 30 years ago

I am defending that a fight against a police that is a normal person like you shouldn't be punished by almost 20 years. They were not in uniform and they hit them too. A bar fight is not terrorism

Also, some of the ones that burn had been caught being unionist and not independentists (that they are too) so, spare me with pirotecnics. The fascists unionist they have actual arms and bazookas at home and NOTHING. But I guess they are of your liking

Nothing what I said is untrue

Ill bother as long as you lie my friend. Feel free to ignore me, liar. It doesn't suprise the way you are in other matters that we discussed recently

From today

Fascist spanish songs against catalunya

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Shouting sieg hail against catalunya

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You don't fool anyone. Unionist have a big fasscist contingent and had been always like this

Go with your anxiety to another place (maybe a VOX meeting) if you can't deal with the truth

 

[maniak]

I am not versed in the details of spanish politics, but it's easy for me to chose the side of the ones who want a voting to decide a political matter over those who don't.

 

[DavidDeSchmikes]

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[4bars]

One protester lost an eye due to direct rubber bullet impact (not against the ground as the rules states) and another a testicle

 

[Sweet Square]

Pretty insane stuff at the moment

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[711]

Gibraltar should declare another sovereignty referendum just to wind Madrid up.

 

[maniak]

Portuguese reporters in Catalonia all seem to report that most police charges have been unnecessary and things in general have been peaceful until the police intervenes.

 

[utdalltheway]

Pretty insane stuff at the moment

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That’s fecked up.
If they keep that up the Spanish will make even more separatists.

 

[4bars]

3 more people losing their eyes because the police doesn't shoot against the ground as the rule states.

A photojournalist (with visible credentials) got detained while he was taking pictures of a violent detention from the police

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[4bars]

Portuguese reporters in Catalonia all seem to report that most police charges have been unnecessary and things in general have been peaceful until the police intervenes.

Is mostly always like this in catalonia

 

[UweBein]

What's wrong in the Heads of Spanish Police?

 

[nimic]

What's wrong in the Heads of Spanish Police?

Longing for the days of Franco, perhaps?