Instagram has perhaps 2 billion accounts all over the world - when you post on this, you address the world. Cultural understanding and diversity works two ways - over 60% of the world is not white, including me, but I do understand that the Spanish interpretation is different. What is the solution?
Cavani gets 3 match ban from FA for his social media post
- Thread starter VP89
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If you lived 3 years in Argentina surely you know that negro and negrito are not the same as the n word, right? It took me all of a week spent there to realize that they call close friends and family by those words, regardless of skin tone.
The solution is openness and dialogue, not punishment.
Fair enough, I am not as clever as your sir. What about all the people in the world that have not lived there? I would love for you to strategise that solution.
Great opportunity for them to learn a quirk about how people speak in Argentina and Uruguay.
So are you saying its an anachronism and should be phased out? It certainly seems to be a racial identifier even if done mostly with no malice and even affection, but the fact it can be a perjorative also and said with the intent to offend someone with dark skin is obviously a big issue. British society has moved away from such things and it is perhaps understandable why the FA is intolerant of such words despite no ill intent from Cavani.
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So England should become like countries that throw people after buildings, right?
I see the British never fully abandoned anglo-imperialism, at least not linguistically. I somehow can understand it, as most British don't take the time to learn another language, probably because their own language mostly suffices in international relations. Being of Indian decent, you may (or may not) be more linguistically open-minded than most Brits. I have no claim whatsoever to understand Uruguayan spanish, being it culturally or linguistically. Your experiences in Uruguay, as interesting and fulfilling as they may have been, have no relation to this case. Your visit doesn't give you a high ground on judging Cavani's words or action, neither does your experience in being called the P-word. There are a lot of "n-words". In latin languages many forms of the word 'nigro' or 'negro' have a rather non-controversial, matter-of-fact, colour descriptive semantic. You know this - we all should know this by now.
If you use all the people in the world as your point of reference, I think you are on a slippery slope. You will always find someone offended (or claiming to be) by any statement put forward. Please don't suggest we should all be offended if someone made a statement in another language which sounds bad if it was in our own language. People eager to externalise all the world's problems will jump at the opportunity to chastise yet another group of people they can separate from their own demographic group.
Revise your morals, actions and increase your sensitivity to your surroundings? Yes, that's a good thing. Revise the world's dictionaries for words that come across rude or offensive in English? I think you'll have a lifetime wallowing in anger and frustration. I certainly don't want any British cnuts to come and tell me to rename my son. His name is Simen, a form of Simon. And yes, it is pronounced "see-men"...
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I don't think Bernardo nor Cavani get bans unless the Suarez incident and the fallout from it happens first.
They're completely different cases and situations but it was where the FA had to first confront the use of the n-word and variations of it in Latin culture/language and declare that it doesn't matter how friendly they are with each other, it's just banned.
Obviously we know Suarez' defence was a load of bullshit but it brought the context of negrito into question and the FA took the easy option losing any chance of nuance if anyone used any varation that sounds like the n-word in the process. Same for anything that might be considered a friendly joke between two mates but could be misconstrued as racist in Bernardo's case.
They allowed people who don't speak spanish and don't use negrito in a familiar, friendly way to immediately kick off if it was ever used. If Suarez had never done what he did then the individual occurences couldve been mediated and explained a lot clearer without the kick off, at least, in my opinion.
And @Rado_N I'll admit I'm wrong on the rare occasion that I am
The 'it' I referred to was the incident, not the word negrito and I won't hear otherwise.
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All the others that have no idea what Cavani meant?
Maybe - just maybe - they should just stop being annoying cancel culture nazis that stick their noses into things they have no idea of.
But nowadays a lot of people get offended by every little fart that actually shouldn't even concern them in the slightest.
I don’t think you understand what George Orwell is about? Unless you’re referring to some of the fictional characters in his books?
You'll need to get on that last bit right away then, as the Suarez verdict repeatedly notes that the charge came about because of where it took place (on the field of play) and also that context in the usage of these kinds of words is important.I don't think Bernardo nor Cavani get bans unless the Suarez incident and the fallout from it happens first.
They're completely different cases and situations but it was where the FA had to first confront the use of the n-word and variations of it in Latin culture/language and declare that it doesn't matter how friendly they are with each other, it's just banned.
Obviously we know Suarez' defence was a load of bullshit but it brought the context of negrito into question and the FA took the easy option losing any chance of nuance if anyone used any varation that sounds like the n-word in the process.
They allowed people who don't speak spanish and don't use negrito in a familiar, friendly way to immediately kick off if it was ever used. If Suarez had never done what he did then the individual occurences couldve been mediated and explained a lot clearer without the kick off, at least, in my opinion.
And @Rado_N I'll admit I'm wrong on the rare occasion that I am
Like I said, the precedent for the Cavani verdict comes from the Silva case.
And almost without trying you have shown your true colours.
Yeah. In a world where certain height, weight, skin tone, hair colour, etc is more desirable than other, I think we should stick to call ourselves by our names and not by nicknames derived from physical traits. Specially for kids, even if eventually getting used to it, it will definitely, at different degrees, affect their self esteem and confidence growing up.
Of course there are going to be people that interpret Cavani’s message differently, but that doesn’t mean that he did something punishable.
And IMO the rule FA e3.1 doesn’t apply to this case.
BTW i live in recoleta, were did you live?
Well I get the point around culture Nazis from first hand experience. Yes people get offended in different ways so we should find ways to be more inclusive, not compare it to farts.
There is no solution in this case because there should have been no problem here. Cavani is addressing to his friend affectionately. This case, if anything, is a great moment for people in different cultures to learn about mutual understanding. Instead, some people and FA found racism in it.
FA is clearly punishing a person who did not show any racism intention because FA think he is a racist. How could this be justified?
Yeah I do revise my initial thoughts on his punishment, but something needs to be done. I am now thinking social media needs to do more.
I lived down Pena, very close to Parque Las Heras. Absolutely stunning area, I loved the area around Plaza Intendente Torcuato de Alvear.
Well actually the solution is social media now that I have had a moment to consolidate the responses. Twitter now prompts us with miss-information, perhaps we should be prompted with these differences.
You talk about an opportune example for people to learn, to create mutual understanding, yet I feel as though your frame of reference here is very one sided. You aren't interested in Uruguayans understanding why that ethnic term, however its used, is part of the problem and needs to be solved, and ceased immediately. Rather you have developed a battering ram approach which will do your cause no favours whatsover
So you lived close to Coronel Diaz and Avenida del Libertador ave. Great place,
Its really strange that you think a FA ruling speaks for the country as a whole.
Seems to be a consensus that the FA may have been in their rights to flag it, but their response perhaps overly punitive. But I understand the precedent that they are trying to set. So in hindsight it may have been the right'ish decision but whether they clumsily arrived at it or it was done with nuance and understanding remains to be seen.
I just wish muppets would stop going on about PC culture.
I just wish muppets would stop going on about PC culture.
I replied to that here.
With regards to that last bit in negritas (yes, I'll make a point of using the Spanish term for bold font from now on) it's absolutely right. I can call my mate "gordo" (fatty), "ñato" (big nose), "mono" (monkey) or "negro" (black). It would make no sense to use such terms to randomly address strangers and yes, it would be offensive in that case.
Even if not a randomer but an "acquaintance", you sort of have to earn the right to use such nicknames, it's a sign of being close to that person. In fact you can test what someone thinks of you in terms of closeness by calling them by their nickname for the first time. Very often the reaction gets you straight back to first name basis
offering "solutions" for a "problem" that should not have existed in the first place is just not a good idea. In fact, that is certainly not in my mind.
I just think Cavani should not be punished on the ground of suspicious racism, because he is not a racist. FA should apologize.
When there is a problem, you need a solution so I disagree with that entirely. You can say "things should not have existed in the first place" for a milliom things, but they happened.
Honestly, the best solution to this is for people not to make such a huge effort to be offended by everything.
It must be exhausting.
You might be right.
FA should look at themselves in the mirrow and ask: what caused the decision to be made?
Registered on Monday at the National Wine Institute
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Brilliant!!!Registered on Monday at the National Wine Institute
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That's kinda true but at least in Uruguay negrito or any word with the 'ito' suffix is never really used as an insulting word as the 'ito' at the end of the word makes it a friendly term. It can be used in very rare occasions to make a racist comment but it would be very rare as it would sound weird most of the time unless it's just friends taking the piss out of each other. If someone wanted to make a racist comment then they would use the word Negro 99% of the time along with an insulting adjective as that makes it more agressive. You would know in Spanish words such as negro are not expressed or seen in a negative way unless they have a negative connotation/adjective attached.
You made another point with darker skinned people in Chile, Argentina and Uruguay having to do with the indigenous races. In Uruguay we actually have more afro descendants with strong African roots as we took in a few of the slaves that came with the Spanish (and freed them) so it's not just with our indigenous people but we actually have quite a strong African influence (just take a look at Candombe). I don't know about Chile but in Uruguay the word negrito is not really tied to race so much it can be just as simple as having black hair. My mum is white with green eyes but has black hair and everyone in our family calls her negra or negrita.
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FA need to read this
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ball-news/man-utd-cavani-ban-uruguay-19560412
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ball-news/man-utd-cavani-ban-uruguay-19560412
Didn't Ali get only 1 match ban and 50k$ for actually rascism against Asians?
European culture? Even worse. You obviously don't understand South American culture and in which situations that expression is used nor do you care one bit.
Don't use that patronizing tone with me. Cheers.
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More fight from others than Cavani and United.
Nuance and understanding was out of the window when they gave him a 3 match band, 100k fine and demanded face to face education!
You are analyzing their punishment not their interpretation of events and the logic behind giving out the punishment.
I think you are splitting hairs. The level of punishment and the logic are linked.
The punishment shows what conclusion they came too and so also gives away some of their thought process.
They are fictional, but that doesn't mean that they behaviour can not be applied on real characters. This ban decision is like from 1984. You can not use some words of your own language if you want to work under FA just because they look similar to N word, even though they are not the same and have completely different meaning. They basically called Cavani racist for nothing.
Yeah I understand where you’re coming from now. Very ‘Big Brother’. 1984 is one of my favourite books by the way.
MOFA, please, Make Orwell Fiction Again.