It says so in the official Man Utd supporter rule book.
Must say I am with you on this one. Leeds are of no concern to me right now and I would be far more bothered with Chelsea
Chelsea vs Messi (Chelsea vs Barca thread)
- Thread starter S.A.N.F
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Must say I am with you on this one. Leeds are of no concern to me right now and I would be far more bothered with Chelsea
Errmm I have been watching United since 98 so I have seen enough matches with Leeds and read enough about it to realise the nature of rivalry. Not to mention the person introduced me to English football was a Leeds fan. And singing we all hate Leeds scum in an Euro away with our fans does drum down that rivalry a bit more into you.
Even if someone does not have that kind of experience, a sense of history of the club you are supporting (and are not just a fan of), comes from reading about the events in its history. Otherwise you might as well start implying that any fans who were not present during Munich crash and its aftermath have no right to understand its significance.
It would be much more disturbing to uncover closet Chelsea fans, if you ask me.
Lots of people have teams from different leagues that they enjoy watching. Barca have played some of the best football in Europe over the last few years. Nothing wrong with coming out and saying that and hoping they prevail over a rival from our own league.
That's a long way short of being an actual fan of the team. Can't speak for Sults but I've probably only watched them play half a dozen times this season. If I am a fan, I'm a shit one.
Let me ask you, pogue, does the Munich air disaster hold importance or relevance in your mind? Or does it not matter because it happened before you were born?
The geographical location bit is laughable really. Typical petty points scoring for a lack of good logic and reasoning.
The geographical location bit is laughable really. Typical petty points scoring for a lack of good logic and reasoning.
It's all very well reading books about how you should and shouldn't feel as a fan. That's not the same thing as how people actually feel, based on their own actual experience of supporting the club.
To be honest, I can still relate to the Leeds rivalry. I just don't feel it anything like as intensely as more local fans do. I think it's a Yorkshire-Lancashire thing and when you don't live there you're not as immersed in it all. Which is why I don't understand how people based on the sub-continent can laugh at me for daring to talk about Chelsea and Leeds both being rivals in the same post.
Comparing how I might feel about people dying young with my thoughts on football rivalries.
And you accuse me of petty point scoring? Well done.
"What does any of this have to do with Vietnam, Walter?"
Seriously I have no clue how you came up with accusing someone of making logical mistakes but then trying to compare two totally unrelated things with each other.
That makes noooo sense at all.
This is pointless. Best we ignore each other.
For me, I just think it really is surprising that anyone would want to see Chelsea a side who I have really grown hate with good reason over the last 7 or 8 years. And I never liked them much before that either could win this game and potentially the CL.
I would be sickened if they won it
I would be sickened if they won it
Closet barcelona fans because some of us wanted them to beat one of our main rivals in a champions league semi final? Thats one of the most ridiculous things ive heard
On the subject of rivalries here is an interesting thread (started by me, but I didn't contribute anything interesting) which sets out what a lot of locals and matchgoers think on the subject.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/rivalries-186650/?highlight=rivalries
Even being from Ireland I'd have to admit I'm not as tuned into it as the natives.
https://www.redcafe.net/f6/rivalries-186650/?highlight=rivalries
Even being from Ireland I'd have to admit I'm not as tuned into it as the natives.
Honestly, some people hate Barca more, some people hate Chelsea more. Some people loathe Madrid or Leeds, and, of the thousands of registered caftards, one or two might have a personal loathing of Plymouth. Everyone has their own personal preferences and circumstances, has come under different influences, sat in the pub next to different people who supported different teams and gave us different reasons to hate or quite like those same teams. Why do people get so worked up about other people's loyalties in football? What difference does it make?
This is especially true of a globally supported team like ours. Some people tap into the history and local rivalries. Some people are more interested in their own location and who their own friends support. Horses for courses, we're all United fans.
This is especially true of a globally supported team like ours. Some people tap into the history and local rivalries. Some people are more interested in their own location and who their own friends support. Horses for courses, we're all United fans.
The club's history, traditions and culture is relevant to it's supporters is the point. Hence, the point being a sense-making one.
"What does any of this have to do with Vietnam, Walter?"
Seriously I have no clue how you came up with accusing someone of making logical mistakes but then trying to compare two totally unrelated things with each other.
That makes noooo sense at all.
I can give you several reasons:
- If I want to see a club to win consecutive Champions League, it'll be United, not Barca
- I want the final to be a good game, with both team have equal chance to win it. If Barca went to the final, it'll be one team with 70% possession doing all the attacking and the other doing all the defending (like last night).
- I don't like the fact that people don't acknowledge that they're also have some luck, but dismissed it because they're good. For example, Milan game in the QF.
- Attractive football is subjective. I find United brand of football to be more attractive than Barca tiki taka.
- Last, similarly to point one, if I want any club to dominate football, why would I want it to be some club from Spain? I'd want United to do it.
You don't read books or history to learn how to feel as a fan. What you read instils some of the basic things associated with that club in you. The players and manager you root for, coming out and making their feelings clear about the clubs such as City also influences people. No one talking about being immersed in any kind of rivalry here, only thing that has happened is that you think people in different continents have no valid reason to feel any kind of rivalry with likes of Liverpool, City and Leeds and instead should count Arsenal and Chelsea as one.
Here is a clue (you definitely need one), someone who follows a team in a robotic manner concerned just with league tables, points and such would fall into type of fans you 'want'. Those who instead choose to follow the club as a whole, trying to be on the same wavelength as the club would recognise the difference between a United-Chelsea and United -City/Liverpool/ and even Leeds encounter.
Good post. And I don't think there's anything wrong with going with the counter argument either. Just don't get the set rules that people believe others should stand by. Or the bewilderment towards an alternate view.
Key word here is 'I'. You have grown to hate them that much, others may not have.
I personally don't want them to win CL and would be rooting for Bayern/Real. But would a chelsea win bother me as much as Pool one did in 2005? Not even close. I would just say - "feck that" and get over it. While Pool win 2005 ruined quite a few days for me.
Meh, like every discussion on here it gets a little absurd when you analyse it too much.
Why do two people who've never met really care that they have different opinions about whether a penalty should have been awarded or not? Why bother typing hundreds of words arguing about it? When children are starving in Africa does it really matter if Bramble is better than Zidane or not?
There's a lot of people who seem to have been taken aback by people rooting for one of our rivals in a CL game. Particularly a rival that's basically a penis extension for an oligarch who obtained his billions through dubious means. With John fecking Terry as captain. People are expressing their bemusement about this, as is their wont.
For me, personally, a Madrid win would be worse than a Chelsea one. Pretty much on the fence between Chelsea and Munich.
What the feck? You're losing it now. What does that even mean? When did I ever say I 'want' one type of fan or another?
All I've done is express surprise that people so far removed from local rivalries can get on their high horse and lecture other fans about how these rivalries are so much more intense than the (much more current) rivalry with Chelsea. I wasn't the one laughing at other people for the way they perceive other football clubs. That was you. After amol had issued a decree that Chelsea are definitively not a rival. Full stop.
The irony of you twisting our discussion into me demanding a particular type of fan is astonishing.
For me I have utmost confidence in Chelsea getting battered in the final, watching them come close and fail immensely (and blame will fall partly on JT now) will be sweet. Last night merely meant we got to see the dominant force falter in hilarious circumstances.
I'm not sure why anyone thinks Chelsea have any chance in the final considering the players they'll have out.
I guess you are right. Still, strikes me as bizarre that you have such strong views about what teams other United fans should or should not like. Somehow, for me, less defensible than a discussion about who of x and y is a better player. Or who out of a and b had a better game, or was more culpable for a goal. Maybe that is just as irrational though.
Edit: Having read post above, TBF not directed at you, directed at anyone - including someone saying Chelsea are NOT a rival OR someone saying people SHOULD want Barca to win.
Your defense of Barca reminds like that poster FCBarca. I don't really understand why bother so much for another club to be honest.
For me, the ONLY team I enjoyed watching is United. Barca, not so much. I understand why their brand of football is attractive, but I very much prefer United style.
I'm not too bothered with Chelsea this season, they didn't beat us in the FA Cup, they're not a threat in the league. If next season they become a threat, then I'll worried about them and wanted them to lose.
I'm putting all my eggs in the Munich basket. The thought of either of the other two winning repulses me.
Yeah, I'm the same. But if it has to be one or the other, I'd want Madrid to win. Just about.
Then again, the Ronaldo gayness will be in full force on here so that'll be torture too.
Yeah, I'd go along with that.
1. Bayern
2. Madrid
3. Evil
Would be my order of preference.
1. Bayern
2. Madrid
3. Evil
Would be my order of preference.
Didnt really care at the beginning of the match but really started rooting for Chelski as the game went on. Feels a bit strange afterwards, but they really deserved to go through and to see Messi fail and hiding his face in shame and dissapointment after the game really made my day yesterday.
Want Chelski to go out in the final though, no matter against who.
Want Chelski to go out in the final though, no matter against who.
But wasn't that exactly the point Pogue was making that he sees Chelsea as the bigger rival compared to Barca because of the fact that they have been our closest rival for the league for now almost 10 years?
Pretty much sounds to me like tradition, even the more recent one, is actually of fairly high importance to him.
Edit: ah okay only just read that you had argued with him about Leeds before.
Even though I don't quite understand why Leeds being a rival would be a reason to not hate Chelsea just as much.
I mean most of us a clearly hating multiple clubs with a lot of passion.
I really do hate Madrid. Dating back to the 90s and early 00s and the first Galactico era when they put us out of CL a few times. Since then it has taken on a life of its own.
Haven't read all this thread... not sure where it's going with the rivalries topic!
But have to say I thought the Chavs deserved to go through last night, it was a brilliant backs to the wall performance. I couldn't believe Barca didn't use the width of the Nou Camp better, they played almost exclusively within the width of the Chelsea penalty area. I was getting pissed off at the ITV commentator saying 'and here's another cross from Alves'... apart from a couple of occasions, when they worked the ball out to Alves he just passed it back inside. I know this is the way Barca play but it was pretty stupid to keep on banging against the Chelsea wall when they could have gone wide and walked round it. They made it easy for Chelsea really.
Also more confirmation of EBJT being a total cnut. Missing the final, couldn't happen to a nicer bloke... pity Shreeves didn't interview him!!
But have to say I thought the Chavs deserved to go through last night, it was a brilliant backs to the wall performance. I couldn't believe Barca didn't use the width of the Nou Camp better, they played almost exclusively within the width of the Chelsea penalty area. I was getting pissed off at the ITV commentator saying 'and here's another cross from Alves'... apart from a couple of occasions, when they worked the ball out to Alves he just passed it back inside. I know this is the way Barca play but it was pretty stupid to keep on banging against the Chelsea wall when they could have gone wide and walked round it. They made it easy for Chelsea really.
Also more confirmation of EBJT being a total cnut. Missing the final, couldn't happen to a nicer bloke... pity Shreeves didn't interview him!!
Yeah, agree with that.
I'll be definitely rooting for either Bayern or Real, whichever of them went to the final. But if Chelsea do win it, it'll be easier for me to get over it, especially when Terry is not playing.
Also, I am supporting Chelsea for the FA Cup final. Maybe I just want them to go into that game upbeat and confident, to make doubly sure they dispatch of Liverpool.
Despite anything I said above, anyone who doesnt hate Liverpool is a cnut.
Despite anything I said above, anyone who doesnt hate Liverpool is a cnut.
Same here. The whole Ronaldo thing has intensified my dislike though.
Helps that they signed him in the midst of a stupendous spending spree, so I can dress my hatred up as moral high-ground over financial doping - as opposed to simple bitterness.
Chelsea are a bigger rival of ours than Barca. Let's move on past this now.
Argh. Forgot about that. You've just ruined whatever schadenfreude I was enjoying over Chelsea losing Cahill and Luis for the forseeable future. feck's sake.
This
I'd still have Barcelona winning over Chelsea, mostly due to their footballing philosophy, and still regard Chelsea as more of a rival than Barcelona just for the craic with local fans (not that we have many in Chelsea fans in the North West).
Funny though, as shit as all that was, I look back on the Ronaldo thread as probably the high point of my time as a caftard. That thread was brilliant, the amount of time I spent on here at that time was legendary at work. (You, presumably, know how that goes.)
The spanish clubs didnt have to, but over a 10 years period, both Real and Barca would match these two clubs on spending on wages and transfers.
All these 4 clubs are primarily funded limitlessly by states and are using these unlimited funds to cheat the system.
It's money. Does it really make a difference if the money is coming from a shady Russian Oligarch, or a shady corporation?
Honestly, I wish people would get off their high horse about money. The game is driven by money. Either you are a fan of one of the lucky half dozen clubs or so in the world that gained widespread fan support in the adolescence of the sport. Or you will pretty much never win anything, ever.
That is unless someone with a bag full of money comes along and equalizes the bottom line for your club.
I don't think anyone here would be too happy if suddenly the Premiership decided to implement salary caps and United went 30, 40, 50+ years between league titles.
The thing is Barca and Real both generate huge revenues while the other two clubs only started to get bigger after they spend a lot of money on players and they still don't generate enough revenue to cover their expanses.