City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

[padr81]

The entire post glossed over Chelsea. Who destroyed this league back in the day, and since they started spending money we stopped winning. They spent 250 to 300 million back in mid 2000s.....that money is insane NOW. Never mind back then. In the same windows Arsenal spent 40, United 60. Its just that, no offense, most United fans back in the day had blinkers on just because you were still winning owing to Fergie's brilliance and seeing Arsenal stumbling about was easier than tolerating Chelsea's cheating. And I am hitting 40, I still remember how United fans would laugh at any Arsenal fan complaining about Chelsea back then. There is zero chance Chelsea would have won any title, never mind a CL, had they not cheated their way to it.

City are what Chelsea were, except more efficient. And City followed and then fine tuned their cheating in ways Chelsea didn't think of. If a monster like Pep existed back then, Chelsea would have got him and dominated it like City have.

This is untrue and I'm a City fan. There was no rule preventing Chelsea doing what they did and while FFP is for the most part a crock of shit, City signed up to it. We could have if we didn't believe in it have fought it and probably won back in 2014, what annoys me is City cut a deal with UEFA and made the rod for our own back. We were happy to use FFP to stop others coming up and after our own (probably) illegitimate rise. That's speaking on FFP and PSR alone and stinks of hypocrisy.

Then theres the fact Chelsea never lied about their income and its very much looking like according to the PL City did.

The fact is and what irks me as a City fan is we should have either fought it or got in line, if these charges are proven, we did neither, we were happy to be both part of the big teams/clubs and still breaking rules we championed to get there. It stinks to high heaven and if we are guilty as is likely (very likely) we should be punished as such.

In terms of football I agree City and Chelsea before us had the same effect on the shape of the league but Chelsea did it within the rules and it looks very much like we didn't.

 

[duffer]

The upstanding and righteous Man City fans giving it to those dastardly cheat's at Forest...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[JSArsenal]

I can't stand Chelsea but there's big differences between them and City.

I don't think there was such a thing as financial fair play back then was there? Chelsea were basically a super charged Blackburn from a decade before, buying the title with outrageous spending power.

City were "allegedly" masking where their income came from, paying double salaries and all sorts of other stuff at a time when financial fair play did exist.

Wenger hinted years ago at Chelsea paying players or managers beyond what was reported in their financials, double salaries, when talking about why Arsenal couldn't compete.

 

[Withnail]

The upstanding and righteous Man City fans giving it to those dastardly cheat's at Forest...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Absolutely shameless

 

[lex talionis]

Broom, meet rug. City have become TOO BIG TO FAIL and the FA will find a way to excuse what everyone acknowledges was cheating of the highest order.

 

[croadyman]

Is there anyway they could be found not guilty that would satisfy fans of other teams?

Nope chuck the fecking book at them

 

[utdalltheway]

What’s the latest on the timing of a decision? It seems to be taking forever.

 

[Withnail]

What’s the latest on the timing of a decision? It seems to be taking forever.

All they'll say is a date has been agreed and it's in the 'near future' which could be anything really.

 

[thisisnottaken1]

The upstanding and righteous Man City fans giving it to those dastardly cheat's at Forest...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Good grief. The bare faced fecking cheek of them, of all people, to call anyone else cheats.

 

[duffer]

Good grief. The bare faced fecking cheek of them, of all people, to call anyone else cheats.

I think it's pretty funny to be honest.

 

[Solius]

Good grief. The bare faced fecking cheek of them, of all people, to call anyone else cheats.

I mean this is clearly ironic. At least it shows some self-awareness.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

I think it's pretty funny to be honest.

If it's self consciously taunting them cos they know they've cheated, fair play indeed, it's quite funny.

If it's because they're delusional, it's somehow even funnier.

 

[SouthMancRed]

It's obviously 'hilarious banter' but probably born out of arrogance and a belief not much'll happen to them.

 

[NLunited]

It's obviously 'hilarious banter' but probably born out of arrogance and a belief not much'll happen to them.

Hopefully that hilarious banter will turn into tears soon.

 

[LilienFan]

Hopefully that hilarious banter will turn into tears soon.

What tears? Let´s be real here.

Offer: You can win 8 of 13 league titles, three FA Cups, six League Cups and a ChampionsLeague, but you also have to spend one season in the Championship.

Literally every team would accept that deal. What´s one year in the Championship as punishment for that?

You still win every game in the Championship, or at least become invincible. You are still allowed to play in the Champions League, FA and League Cup to keep yourself entertained. Maybe you even win a quadruple, cause you are now well rested and focused for all the Cup games. So your punishment is basically to murder 23 new teams for a year. Does not even sound like punishment.

 

[NLunited]

What tears? Let´s be real here.

Offer: You can win 8 of 13 league titles, three FA Cups, six League Cups and a ChampionsLeague, but you also have to spend one season in the Championship.

Literally every team would accept that deal. What´s one year in the Championship as punishment for that?

You still win every game in the Championship, or at least become invincible. You are still allowed to play in the Champions League, FA and League Cup to keep yourself entertained. Maybe you even win a quadruple, cause you are now well rested and focused for all the Cup games. So your punishment is basically to murder 23 new teams for a year. Does not even sound like punishment.

Where did you come up with this ‚deal‘?

I sure hope they get punished a lot harsher than that.

 

[duffer]

Where did you come up with this ‚deal‘?

I sure hope they get punished a lot harsher than that.

What do you think is the most harsh but still reasonably realistic punishment they'll get, if they are found guilty of all 115 charges.

 

[RedRocket9908]

What tears? Let´s be real here.

Offer: You can win 8 of 13 league titles, three FA Cups, six League Cups and a ChampionsLeague, but you also have to spend one season in the Championship.

Literally every team would accept that deal. What´s one year in the Championship as punishment for that?

You still win every game in the Championship, or at least become invincible. You are still allowed to play in the Champions League, FA and League Cup to keep yourself entertained. Maybe you even win a quadruple, cause you are now well rested and focused for all the Cup games. So your punishment is basically to murder 23 new teams for a year. Does not even sound like punishment.

If they are relegated their is no way it'll only be to the Championship and even if it was I doubt they just be invincible for a season and come straight back up as I imagine they'll lose most of their squad as a lot will have probably clauses that allow them to leave should that happen plus they'll likely lose a lot of their sponsors and will struggle to replace them and will lose a fortune in tv revenue and gate reciepts so wont be able to pay their wage bill which is already becoming unsustainable.

On top of all that the council could see them being found guilty if indeed they are found guilty as a breech of contract and could start preceedings to evict them from the Etihad.

 

[tomaldinho1]

What do you think is the most harsh but still reasonably realistic punishment they'll get, if they are found guilty of all 115 charges.

Realistic, I think they'll strip their titles, maybe give them a transfer ban for a season + a paltry fine. It doesn't do much to them apart from invalidate their success but pundits can tell us how harsh it is.
i just can't see them doing anything that will actually harm them in anyway.

 

[duffer]

Realistic, I think they'll strip their titles, maybe give them a transfer ban for a season + a paltry fine. It doesn't do much to them apart from invalidate their success but pundits can tell us how harsh it is.
i just can't see them doing anything that will actually harm them in anyway.

I personally think it will be a huge fine and large points deduction going into next season (20 points or something like that).

Relegating them would start the mother of all legal appeals and I don't think the Premier League has the stomach for that.

 

[LilienFan]

I personally think it will be a huge fine and large points deduction going into next season (20 points or something like that).

Relegating them would start the mother of all legal appeals and I don't think the Premier League has the stomach for that.

I think that will be the likely outcome plus an 18 months transfer ban.

Though I think City would not even fight Championship relegation. I feel that might be tempting to the leagues. Win/Win for them. They will be portrayed as hardass in the public media perception and it´s a HUGE BOOST to the Championship for a year.

And it absolutely cannot be just a 20 point deduction. If you deduct them points you need to make 100% sure that they cannot win the league with it. Otherwise you will never live that down and become a clown show. They most likely will qualify for the CL with that deduction, too.

 

[brian017]

If they are truly guilty of the majority of the 115 charges anything other than relegation would be laughable. I’m not holding my breath that it’ll happen though. Their 5 fans know this, the players know this, the club know this, Pep knows this and the Media know this. Which is why even mentioning the whole 115 thing is utterly pointless

 

[MrMarcello]

What do you think is the most harsh but still reasonably realistic punishment they'll get, if they are found guilty of all 115 charges.

Expulsion and dissolution of ownership but neither will occur.

If 10% or more of the charges are upheld, they should be ejected from the PL with a minimum "time served" meaning X years before they can "promote" back in the PL regardless of lower league standing. Stagger the time served based on percentage of charges applied, per say 20% equals two years out of the PL or 50% equals five years.

And penalize their team spending percentages, perhaps stagger it over X years and with limited transfer fees paid with no net offset against sales for X years.


That said, I am curious if the PL clubs could decide to vote in say June and elect to expel City regardless of the court preceding. Would the bylaws allow such?

 

[duffer]

Expulsion and dissolution of ownership but neither will occur.

If 10% or more of the charges are upheld, they should be ejected from the PL with a minimum "time served" meaning X years before they can "promote" back in the PL regardless of lower league standing. Stagger the time served based on percentage of charges applied, per say 20% equals two years out of the PL or 50% equals five years.

And penalize their team spending percentages, perhaps stagger it over X years and with limited transfer fees paid with no net offset against sales for X years.


That said, I am curious if the PL clubs could decide to vote in say June and elect to expel City regardless of the court preceding. Would the bylaws allow such?

You really think a multiple years long ban from the Prem is reasonably realistic?

 

[whitbyviking]

I wonder if they got a relegation and/or deduction might attempt the ban them from the Champions League again. They have to be smarting over losing out to a technicality.

 

[NLunited]

If they apply the same rule they applied to Everton and Forrest, the punishment should turn out gigantic.

If they really didn‘t intend to punish Cheaty, they would not have brought the charges. They have to follow through or the whole league collapses basically.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Relegate them, strip them of all their titles and give them a 3 year transfer ban.

 

[MrMarcello]

You really think a multiple years long ban from the Prem is reasonably realistic?

No and I only read the most harsh. I do think there is the outside chance the PL could demote them, or enough points deduction going forward to do so.

There is precedent in other leagues with big clubs but the problem here, as we all know, is this is not a random owner or group it's a fecking country. With deep political and financial ties to England.

My question still remains - would bylaws permit the 19 PL clubs from choosing to hold their own vote and expel City? No one ever answers such but I am curious.

 

[hobbers]

It's interesting to see what people think is a fair punishment.

For me they should be kicked out of the football league and made to start again at the very bottom of the non league pyramid.

This is the only fair punishment, basically the same as what happened to Rangers in the SPL. Booted out the Prem and made to reapply to the EFL, who then decide where in the pyramid they join (the bottom tier).

 

[Judas]

I personally don't know how I carry on watching the PL with the same level of interest if City aren't relegated down a considerable levels. The hope that they are punished is keeping me going (I don't truly believe they will), but if they get away lightly, it really will be a dark day for English football.

 

[Pickle85]

I personally think it will be a huge fine and large points deduction going into next season (20 points or something like that).

Relegating them would start the mother of all legal appeals and I don't think the Premier League has the stomach for that.

Yup, can't see it being much more than this. Maybe a slightly larger points deduction, but I think anyone holding out for relegation or worse is likely to be disappointed, unfortunately.

 

[reddyornot]

I personally don't know how I carry on watching the PL with the same level of interest if City aren't relegated down a considerable levels. The hope that they are punished is keeping me going (I don't truly believe they will), but if they get away lightly, it really will be a dark day for English football.

I will cancel Sky sports.

 

[duffer]

My question still remains - would bylaws permit the 19 PL clubs from choosing to hold their own vote and expel City? No one ever answers such but I am curious.

I have a vague memory from the Super League fiasco that 75% of the premier league clubs can vote to boot a club.

No idea about bylaws though. Google it and let me know.

 

[Real Name]

The upstanding and righteous Man City fans giving it to those dastardly cheat's at Forest...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Isnt that ironic.

 

[djembatheking]

Their punishment will end up being laughable.

 

[OldSchoolManc]

Everton and Forest will absolutely not stand for City getting a small punishment.
It would drag out into a long and expensive legal battle, further tainting the whole Premier league

 

[Judas]

No one would actually miss City if they disappeared, its probably one thing all football fans can agree about, surely.

 

[Changeisgood]

Demotion does less than taking away their titles in my opinion. They are just back the following year. Take the titles away and fine them heftily including taking away any prize money. Ideally I'd like to see Chelsea and City with the same trophy count as before the two decades ago....not going to happen though of course.

 

[iHicksy]

This is untrue and I'm a City fan. There was no rule preventing Chelsea doing what they did and while FFP is for the most part a crock of shit, City signed up to it. We could have if we didn't believe in it have fought it and probably won back in 2014, what annoys me is City cut a deal with UEFA and made the rod for our own back. We were happy to use FFP to stop others coming up and after our own (probably) illegitimate rise. That's speaking on FFP and PSR alone and stinks of hypocrisy.

Then theres the fact Chelsea never lied about their income and its very much looking like according to the PL City did.

The fact is and what irks me as a City fan is we should have either fought it or got in line, if these charges are proven, we did neither, we were happy to be both part of the big teams/clubs and still breaking rules we championed to get there. It stinks to high heaven and if we are guilty as is likely (very likely) we should be punished as such.

In terms of football I agree City and Chelsea before us had the same effect on the shape of the league but Chelsea did it within the rules and it looks very much like we didn't.

Did we adopt the first City fan who is reasonable and uses logic and reasoning (that i've seen on-line)?

Seriously though, great post.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Did we adopt the first City fan who is reasonable and uses logic and reasoning (that i've seen on-line)?

Seriously though, great post.

@padr81 is sound and seems to actually love City as a club rather than only the bland iteration born in 2008. Probably one of the 2 City fans in the world you can actually have a conversation with - the other being Nedum Onuoha