The problem is that a Carrick-Fellaini pairing is just ridiculously static and immobile. Carrick gets away with that because he's positionally excellent and has brilliant distribution. Fellaini is average at best at those (positioning and passing) which means his lack of mobility is even more apparent. Probably both of them are better suited to play with someone like Cleverley than with each other.
Cleverley vs Fellaini
- Thread starter Liam147
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
This is my bit of worry.
Carrick has to play in most of the games, and you don't spend £28m on a squad player.
So if the reckoning is that they'll both play most games, then you're either relying on Rooney dropping deep to add mobility and a body in midfield, or you're dealing with a lack of movement in there.
Definitely something to be a concern. The main hope is that the front 2 and wingers add the dynamism.
Carrick-Fellaini almost feels like the Carrick-Fletcher-combo revisited.
Both rubbish..
But Clev because he's our rubbish..
But Clev because he's our rubbish..
You do recall when Fletcher was an excellent member of the squad?
I would love to see Fellaini become key like that
Fellaini needs time to settle. He's been a standout performer in the Premier League for the last 2 or 3 years. A player who we always hated playing against as well, and one who caused everyone problems. He's got great technique and control, though he struggled to show it last night, but one game doesn't make him poor. Once he settles and gains confidence playing for United, then I think he will be good for us, and I think he will be a bigger asset than Cleverley, who is a reasonable squad option, but doesn't really excel at anything specific.
This really is a no brainer. One keeps us moving by just being on the pitch; the other commits fouls by just standing around. One maybe a mega buck "David Moyes world class" signing but sometimes cheap is better than dear.
Cleverley, by a fecking mile.
And he ain't all that great.
And he ain't all that great.
Andy Carroll is better than Javier Hernandez, because nobody has offered £35million for Chicharito.
Fellaini but it's kinda like choosing whether to have spag bol or beans on toast for dinner.
I disagree. Cleverley never just plays in a deeper role. His mobility sees him moving all over. He puts a fantastic shift in (hence him so often being subbed). Carrick on the other hand does sit deep.
Fellaini on the other hand, as I've maintained can't actually tackle. You'll disagree, but what I will say is that over the course of the season we'll see ourselves saying 'Fellaini's given a lot of fouls away today', and they won't be those aerial battles he gets penalised for, it's because he's clumsy on the ground. Last night is a perfect example. Just tackling through the back of people regularly, getting himself into the wrong position. Then the one time he doesn't foul someone he gets booked.
LOL!
Is it really? The way I remember it Cleverley had a decent season last year. Including a very good showing when we won 3-2 at City, dominating Wilshere in the home win over Arsenal to the point that little Jack's frustration eventually got to him etc. Cleverley started playing badly after we lost to Madrid, the point when pretty much the life went out of our campaign.
As a number 8, Cleverley is solid player. He's not Clarence Seedorf but from what I've seen of both I'd say he's significantly better than Fellaini in that role. As a number 10, I'd pick Fellaini over him because his strength and power are an advantage in the advanced role and his lack of mobility isn't much of an issue when he has to operate in and around the 18 yard box. But the key gap in our squad is at #8 not #10...
Yes... decent. They are both decent, solid, good, does a job etc etc. Fellaini's not atm but he's much better than currently showing and he's a bigger goal threat.
Fellaini - 73% tackle success? I haven't seen him make one decent tackle yet! Defensive midfielder he ain't. I think he's best upfront somewhere where he can make a nuisance of himself but I have no idea where he should go and whose place he should take. I presume all this was thought carefully about before he was signed! Cleverley is a much better bet alongside Carrick mainly because he can tackle, he can pass (most of the time) and he is mobile which is an essential quality.
Cleverley has been at the club for a few years and is obviously more settled. It's crazy early to judge Fellaini like that so early even if the early signs from him aren't encouraging.
To be fair, Fellaini hasn't really shone so far when it's come to tackling. He still looks like he's getting to terms with it all if I am honest. A couple of the fouls against Shaktar were just genuine 'are you sure you're even looking at the play there ref?'. Especially the one near the box where he basically chested the ball down and controlled it but got given a foul for literally no reason. It was bizarre.
I want someone in midfield to start staying tight and in the back of people, hacking and fouling. Carrick doesn't do it enough and while Fellaini (like I thought Jones would do when in midfield but bizarrely wasn't played that way by SAF) so far hasn't really played a deep combat role. If I am honest, I really miss Fletcher of 2008/09 and Hargreaves. Those two could actually stay tight to their man and herd play with tackling, genuine ball winning and break up the play with fouling if needed.
So far what I mentioned in the other thread regarding Fellaini and Carrick just hasn't happened at all. Carrick is still not staying tight to his men on the break and we have been slaughtered on the counter a couple of times already this season which is frustrating but I am sure Moyes is working to rectify it.
Yup. I thought we'd signed a right nasty fecker who would be putting in a load of dirty sliding challenges and elbowing everyone. At the moment it seems Fellaini is trying to play like a shit version of Carrick?
Neither.
I would really like to see them both in midfield minus Carrick. Cleverley can play slightly further up and Fellaini can be wherever he wants with DM as his priority position.
Fellaini looks like he lacks mobility to be the right partner for Carrick. Hopefully it will come as he gains confidence.
Cleverley has one thing that I like in a player, and Fellaini lacks- adaptability. He can do pretty much any job that is required in midfield both centrally and out wide, keeps the balance of the side, retains possession- of course he needs to improve his contribution in terms of assists and goals but as an enabling player he is very good.
Fellaini on the other hand seems to be poor at DM, fine at CM and while he's effective at AM if your instructions are to get the ball forward early and as direct as possible, but he's not that great with he ball at his feet apart from his finishing.
Fellaini is probably the player who will get you more goals and assists, if you build a team around him to support what he is good at, but Cleverley is a better all round player, in my opinion.
Fellaini on the other hand seems to be poor at DM, fine at CM and while he's effective at AM if your instructions are to get the ball forward early and as direct as possible, but he's not that great with he ball at his feet apart from his finishing.
Fellaini is probably the player who will get you more goals and assists, if you build a team around him to support what he is good at, but Cleverley is a better all round player, in my opinion.
Fellaini's unsuitability for us is about far more than a lack of mobility.
He lacks the positional sense and discipline to be a DM for a top club. He doesn't appear to read the game well enough to anticipate what the opposition will do and break up the play by making interceptions and well timed tackles. He is bullied off the ball very easily for someone who is known for being a big physical presence. His range of passing is poor and for someone playing in a deeper holding role he doesn't pass the ball forwards enough.
Fellaini doesn't add any tempo or urgency to our game, and if anything, in comparison to Cleverley or Anderson, he slows down our (already slow) build-up play even further. He commits stupid niggly fouls all the time, because he is quite clumsy with his challenges. He committed the highest number of fouls per game in the PL last season despite playing as a forward. Committing lots of fouls gives away possession needlessly because they result in a free kick for the opposition.
The only area I ever saw him as better than anyone we have is in chesting down aerial balls and laying it off to a team mate, but that is hardly desirable and our lads aren't ever just going to start launching long balls to his chest. Even when he was pushed forward against City near the end we didn't get the ball to him that way because it isn't how we play.
For the few games in a season where where we need someone to do a more defensive job in midfield Jones is far better than Fellaini (and I'm not even keen on Jones in CM). Jones reads the game better, doesnt let his man stroll past him easily, and puts up more of a fight. He isn't bullied off the ball so easily and apart from the time he played as further forward (!) he's definitely added more solidity to our midfield.
Fellaini wasn't the CM we needed but he's here now and despite the price tag I just hope he's used sparingly. I remember back in June before Moyes officially joined Andy Mitten wrote an article about Moyes wanting to bring two Everton players in and our coaching staff (who hadn't yet been sacked) and scouting staff didn't think they were good enough for United. It was always clear that Fellaini wasn't the quality of player we needed to improve our midfield and help take us to the next level. The fact that we paid so much for him just adds insult to injury.
He lacks the positional sense and discipline to be a DM for a top club. He doesn't appear to read the game well enough to anticipate what the opposition will do and break up the play by making interceptions and well timed tackles. He is bullied off the ball very easily for someone who is known for being a big physical presence. His range of passing is poor and for someone playing in a deeper holding role he doesn't pass the ball forwards enough.
Fellaini doesn't add any tempo or urgency to our game, and if anything, in comparison to Cleverley or Anderson, he slows down our (already slow) build-up play even further. He commits stupid niggly fouls all the time, because he is quite clumsy with his challenges. He committed the highest number of fouls per game in the PL last season despite playing as a forward. Committing lots of fouls gives away possession needlessly because they result in a free kick for the opposition.
The only area I ever saw him as better than anyone we have is in chesting down aerial balls and laying it off to a team mate, but that is hardly desirable and our lads aren't ever just going to start launching long balls to his chest. Even when he was pushed forward against City near the end we didn't get the ball to him that way because it isn't how we play.
For the few games in a season where where we need someone to do a more defensive job in midfield Jones is far better than Fellaini (and I'm not even keen on Jones in CM). Jones reads the game better, doesnt let his man stroll past him easily, and puts up more of a fight. He isn't bullied off the ball so easily and apart from the time he played as further forward (!) he's definitely added more solidity to our midfield.
Fellaini wasn't the CM we needed but he's here now and despite the price tag I just hope he's used sparingly. I remember back in June before Moyes officially joined Andy Mitten wrote an article about Moyes wanting to bring two Everton players in and our coaching staff (who hadn't yet been sacked) and scouting staff didn't think they were good enough for United. It was always clear that Fellaini wasn't the quality of player we needed to improve our midfield and help take us to the next level. The fact that we paid so much for him just adds insult to injury.
Deary me...
He said if. We're not Everton. We're sure as shit not building a team round that useless lump of shite. But you can build a team around him easier than you could Cleverley.
Oh, I did get the if. Just the thought of Manchester United building a team around Merouane Fellaini. I tried to describe it but it's just... literally mindblowing?
I just tried to think about it and it did remind of me thinking about spacetime.
I think the overall vibe here is on transfer deadline day, with a few minutes to go we should have turned to Everton and said "keep your afroman, we've just signed McCarthy". Martínez wouldn't have been happy. feckers, they took us to the cleaners.
Is there a pleasure in insulting your own players ? I'd understand if he was a biter ala Suarez, a racist, a diver ala Young. It's fecking weird to me and it's not even about being "top red" or anything like that.
It's bizarre, especially as he's been pretty tame and hasn't done much wrong since he came here.
Young deserves his abuse though, my god, he does.
I don't see him as a United player. I'm not suddenly going to worship him because he plays for United. Couldn't stand him at Everton, why does that change now? I don't like Rooney, but he least he has a positive impact on our games.
Jesus, let's drop our best midfielder to play two who aren't anywhere near as good. Sounds fecking brilliant to me.
Yes.
I never thought I'd utter these words, but I agree with you, Liam. I couldn't stand Fellaini at Everton. He annoyed me no end any time I watched him play. I hated how uncoordinated he looked, and was baffled by the praise he was getting when he looked for all the world like an oafish midfielder playing as a target man because he's a big, elbowy, awkward character. Also, he's a dirty bastard and his punch, elbow, headbutt run-in with Shawcross (I think, maybe Huth?) was fecking disgusting.
Cleverley by country mile, it's not just the yesterday game it's 16 years of my watching EPL week in week out.
Both his best and his worst are still better Fellainins bests and worsts.
Both his best and his worst are still better Fellainins bests and worsts.
I didn't mean you'd have to go from previous hatred when he was at Everton to worshiping him now that he's a Utd player. I just found it weird that you would insult a player who plays for your team when he hasn't done anything insult worthy so far at least. The pb on the caf is that posters often interpret posts to the extreme, you go from black to white. I'm not a fan of Fellaini and even cringed at the thought of signing him when those rumors started emerging.
He's been wank so far and looks like a microphone. So microphone headed piece of wank isnt really an insult.
Well I didn't quote you did I ?
I believe he has. As TN said above, that was insult worthy. The whoel episode was disgusting. Sometimes a lot of us will lose our cool and do something rash. He did it three times in one fecking half! He's dirty. But he's dirty without compensating for it in any way.
I don't like him and don't think I ever will.
Right now you would say Cleverley due to him being more in form than Fellaini but in the long term you would have Fellaini. He's done more as an individual in his career than Cleverley. Has Cleverley ever been one of the best (or if you don't feel Fellaini was, then one of the most effective) players in the league? No, Fellaini has, albeit in a different position to the one he is going to be used in for United, although if he plays as a more advanced of a 2 man midfield so he can pressure high up the pitch and win the ball he will be just as effective for you.