Club Sale | It’s done!

[Sviken]

Bloomberg reporting Qataris are interested. Take serious note of this folks, that isn’t a speculation shits and giggles publication.

It seems to me that Qatar are trying to ditch PSG and go for United. It's a much lucrative prize for them and in a much more popular league.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

Bloomberg reporting Qataris are interested. Take serious note of this folks, that isn’t a speculation shits and giggles publication.

Is that for a full takeover of the club or a minority stake as reported this morning? I’ve hardly been paying much attention to this thread as these things take time to be ironed out and fully completed.

 

[Sushi Kagawa]

Qatari's were always going to be interested but can see them seriously considering Liverpool too. Even spurs would be a good investment as they have the best stadium in the country

 

[Messier1994]

What I would do if I were the QSI wanting to buy an entire share is to take over full control of all shares of Manchester United plc. I would do a reverse split of all outstanding shares so that QSI get a minimal amount of votes (when it’s wholly owned you can do what you want with these things). Say 1000 shares reaching holding 0.1 votes.

Then I would create a new share class of Series C shares with 10 votes each and issue 101 series C shares to a trust or several stake holders. A Series C share is never entitled to any dividend or other financial right and can at any time be redeemed for 0.1p each. The QSI would never at any point with the C shares outstanding exercise control of the club. They couldn’t order the club to “toss a game against PSG”. This isn’t a problem in practice anyway. Should the trustees, independent directors or someone else ever create a problem — extremely unlikely, but you want more power if you spend 10bn — they can more or less over night redeem all series C shares from the trust, issue new series C shares to someone else who should be more reasonable, and take it from there. I mean in practice, they pick up the bill, they will control things anyway. This is how many clubs in 50+1 countries are run. The members “control” the club on paper, an owner does it in practice.

 

[oneway]

I think I might be finished as a supporter of it a Qatar type owner.

I really can’t stomach the idea of it let alone get excited etc

You will get excited when you see a brand new stadium and trophies, it will take time but eventually most people who make these statements will come back, Utd is like a drug you won’t come off it.

 

[Messier1994]

Smart money would be to invest in Spurs or Lfc. The prestige would be to own us.

I still feel the Qataris would be the best bet. There will be ways around the whole owning two clubs such as United and PSG.

Yeah, and while I am not certain, my best bet is that QSI are pretty scared of how PSG will fare under the new FFP rules. They lost 300m and must break even soon. If they don’t they will instantly be sanctioned according to set rules, and if they don’t comply with the rules the year after the sanctions will get stricter and stricter before they will be disqualified from European tournaments.

Sure — we have status and the fan following. But what we have — more than anyone else — is potential for legit earnings. With legit earnings — you will be able to spend more than anyone else. Our earnings are up there with anyone else and we have been run like sheit for 17 years and aren’t in the CL. Imagine if we win the league/CL and get that price money, get ”fake” sponsor money from QSI and have an excellent youth academy that results in us selling. Players for 50-100m a year.

For like Newcastle — there is a long long way to get anywhere close to us in earnings. City cheated like heck, but that was under the old rules. It’s definitely not as easy anymore — and remember that City was darn close to being kicked out of the European tournaments.

So we have another, usp, our legit earnings.

 

[Messier1994]

Plus, what is a minority stake in a private company worth? If full is the 6bn being mentioned, 49% isn't worth just under 3bn because it comes without control. There's no way the Glazers have an interest in disposing of a minority interest like that.

Great point and I 100% agree, but I think these minority investments always comes with some kind of shareholders agreement ensuring a minority owner certain things. What does QSI want? Control over tours? Sponsorships. Etc etc etc. Those things would be governed by that agreement.

A US hedge fund might be ensured to be selected to lend money to the club when the stadium is built at a certain interest rate. Stuff like that.

 

[Godfather]

The underlying rules are a lot more flexible. Red Bull in principle control both Salzburg and Leipzig, for example.

If QSI owns 49%, and King Something of Qatar owns the other 51% — it should not be a problem, as long as QSI is independent from Qatar (which is a requirement in itself, so we can assume that).

You could assign certain powers to an independent trust. You do that in some incentive schemes for tax reasons. A company sets up a trust and transfer shares to the trust while claiming that this result in them no longer controlling the shares. The trust has an administrator who has an assignment to handle the shares in the employees best interest. The administrator always does what the company asks in practice, in theory there might be situations were the trust couldn’t comply (if ordered to do something with the shares that clearly wasn’t in the employees at interest).

We would need to have more insight into UEFAs decision regarding Red Bull to speculate how far this can be taken. But ultimately the rule is supposed to ensure the integrity of the sport. To avoid a F1 situation were the driver of a team is ordered to let another driver of the same team past. In practice, this is not hard to achieve, nor really a risk.

Here is the rule:
—
To ensure the integrity of the UEFA club competitions (i.e. UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League and UEFA Europa Conference League), the following criteria apply:

1. No club participating in a UEFA club competition may, either directly or indirectly:
   1. hold or deal in the securities or shares of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   2. be a member of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition;
   3. be involved in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition; or
   4. have any power whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of any other club participating in a UEFA club competition.
2. No one may simultaneously be involved, either directly or indirectly, in any capacity whatsoever in the management, administration and/or sporting performance of more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition.
3. No individual or legal entity may have control or influence over more than one club participating in a UEFA club competition, such control or influence being defined in this context as:
   1. holding a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights;
   2. having the right to appoint or remove a majority of the members of the administrative, management or supervisory body of the club;
   3. being a shareholder and alone controlling a majority of the shareholders’ voting rights pursuant to an agreement entered into with other shareholders of the club; or
   4. being able to exercise by any means a decisive influence in the decision-making of the club

Thanks thats very insightful. The last point is quite broad. A trust could already be qualified under it I assume. But getting someone else on board might already be enough

 

[TheReligion]

Haven’t the Qataris been selling/looking to sell PSG shares?

Could it not be feasible they are going to minimise their ownership of PSG so they can fully take on United?

 

[Attila]

Would be devastating if Qatar goes for Liverpool instead

 

[AlPistacho]

It seems to me that Qatar are trying to ditch PSG and go for United. It's a much lucrative prize for them and in a much more popular league.

Reports they’re interested in either United, Liverpool, Spurs … also keep an eye on West Ham. A London club, stable, in a recently developed part of London. Big stadium. Probably the club that a takeover would offer one most rewards.

 

[AlPistacho]

Haven’t the Qataris been selling/looking to sell PSG shares?

Could it not be feasible they are going to minimise their ownership of PSG so they can fully take on United?

Who would want to take on the PSG wage bill?

 

[mazhar13]

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[LawCharltonBest]

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To the Dubai thread

 

[crossy1686]

Makes perfect sense. The world cup was a successs for them and United is one of football's and the world's modern cultural gems, and is quite good value if that's the end of the market you are shopping at.

Worth noting Bloomberg were the very first I believe to break the Glazers putting the club up for sale too.

This one just makes so much sense. Beckham being involved. Avram being out there for so long. So much sense that nothing probably happen!

Genuinely depressing that. They cannot buy us outright if it's the same people as PSG, so I dress to think we might be getting a Glazers+ package..

They could only by a minority stake right? Worst case that

Definitely, first real news in ages.

The info is that Qatar either is looking into investing in a club or buying a full club and we are one of the clubs considered. It’s not that they have chosen us. But up until now we didn’t even know if we were seriously being considered by them, they could have made their minds up ages ago that they wouldn’t bid for an expensive PL club. We know that they did not submit a bid for Chelsea.

It seems to me that Qatar are trying to ditch PSG and go for United. It's a much lucrative prize for them and in a much more popular league.

Is that for a full takeover of the club or a minority stake as reported this morning? I’ve hardly been paying much attention to this thread as these things take time to be ironed out and fully completed.

Just wanna back this up by saying that the news appeared on the Bloomberg terminals that institutional investors and hedge fund use (not accessible to the general public). It's solid info for people to trade millions and billions of dollars off the back of. Bloomberg terminal doesn't exactly do a gossip column, its solid news.

I think it makes perfect sense for the Qataris to be interested, especially after the WC. They got multiple offers (of up to $4b) for a stake in PSG over the course of the tournament. If they do firm up their interest, expect a partial sale of PSG and full purchase of United.

I'm not saying this will definitely happen but that rumour isn't just a rumour, and anyone tweeting that the Qataris aren't interested probably got on the phone to their press office and asked for an official statement. "Not interested" is the line you would expect from an institution that also wants to sell something for profit at the same time they're buying.

 

[BluesJr]

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Bad news.

 

[crossy1686]

Bad news.

It's bollocks. The Qataris have spoken to Tottenham in recent days, there's no way they haven't enquired about United or Liverpool either. Whomever this guy is, I guarantee he called their press office for a statement and got told that. He's not even bothered to say where his info comes from, he's just said they're definitely not interest, and then chucks Leeds into the bracket also.

He's also the only guy in the world it seems currently saying this. He might be right in the end but this very much feels like "I want to be the first to piss on this for the coverage"

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Because having an owner like that doesn’t mean you have to agree or defend what they do, or what history they have. Your interest is the club. The club isn’t guilty by association. It’s a football club. The interest is in the sport I couldn’t care less who the owners are or what they do. We can’t control any of it. This is the only way to compete, that’s the way it is.

I agree with this, but at the same time totally understand that others feel differently.

 

[VP89]

It's bollocks. The Qataris have spoken to Tottenham in recent days, there's no way they haven't enquired about United or Liverpool either. Whomever this guy is, I guarantee he called their press office for a statement and got told that. He's not even bothered to say where his info comes from, he's just said they're definitely not interest, and then chucks Leeds into the bracket also.

He's also the only guy in the world it seems currently saying this. He might be right in the end but this very much feels like "I want to be the first to piss on this for the coverage"

I get what you mean but this guy is the chief reporter for The Times.

Hes not going to naively go from the Qatar press office. If he only went by then he'd caveat that they were approached and dismissed any claim.

Likely he corroborated from more than one source.

 

[crossy1686]

I get what you mean but this guy is the chief reporter for The Times.

Hes not going to naively go from the Qatar press office. If he only went by then he'd caveat that they were approached and dismissed any claim.

Likely he corroborated from more than one source.

He may have some sources but he doesn't have the same sources Bloomberg have. Give it a week and it will filter down to the mainstream media and we'll hear more then, right now all you're going to hear is a lot of "not interested".

 

[VP89]

He may have some sources but he doesn't have the same sources Bloomberg have. Give it a week and it will filter down to the mainstream media and we'll hear more then, right now all you're going to hear is a lot of "not interested".

I agree re. Bloomberg. They are in the know.

 

[Red the Bear]

He may have some sources but he doesn't have the same sources Bloomberg have. Give it a week and it will filter down to the mainstream media and we'll hear more then, right now all you're going to hear is a lot of "not interested".

Any news from Bloomberg terminals?

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

Bloomberg does a lot of 'wire' news reporting along with doing their own journalistic reporting. Sorry, could not tell from posts above how this was reported.

 

[VP89]

Any news from Bloomberg terminals?

From Bloomberg :

Qatar Sports Investments chairman Nasser Al-Khelaifi recently held conversations with Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy over the possible purchase of a stake in the London-based club, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting. QSI is also considering both a full takeover or a stake in rivals including Manchester United or Liverpool FC, added the person, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

A spokesperson for QSI declined to comment. A Tottenham spokesman denied a meeting took place regarding the sale of equity in the club. A Manchester United spokesperson declined to comment. A Liverpool spokesperson did not respond to a request to comment. QSI’s deliberations are ongoing and may not lead to a deal.

QSI has decided to consider at least one investment in the EPL after hosting what the country views as a successful World Cup. The move is both a hedge against investments in less high-profile leagues like Portugal, and due to the EPL’s continued growth and global profile.

Any potential deal — either an outright takeover or a minority stake — would further cement Qatar’s strategy of investing in sports assets, in part to boost the country’s profile and also to invest its vast wealth from natural resources.

It is unclear whether QSI have held deal talks with other EPL clubs, and any potential bid is currently at an early stage. CBS Sports first reported the meeting between QSI and Tottenham.

(The key bit for me below)

UEFA rules prohibit two teams owned outright by the same group to enter into one of the European competitions but there are currently no rules to prevent one team in a competition having a minority position in another in the same competition.



In other words - if its QSI its a minority stake for us.

 

[Rightnr]

From my dealings with investing when rumours are involved, rumours from Bloomberg usually means a high degree of certainty. They're usually gold standard for trustworthiness.

It might not pan out but it won't be because it was never a thing, more likely that they just couldn't close a deal.

 

[Red the Bear]

From Bloomberg :

Qatar Sports Investments chairman Nasser Al-Khelaifi recently held conversations with Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy over the possible purchase of a stake in the London-based club, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting. QSI is also considering both a full takeover or a stake in rivals including Manchester United or Liverpool FC, added the person, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

A spokesperson for QSI declined to comment. A Tottenham spokesman denied a meeting took place regarding the sale of equity in the club. A Manchester United spokesperson declined to comment. A Liverpool spokesperson did not respond to a request to comment. QSI’s deliberations are ongoing and may not lead to a deal.

QSI has decided to consider at least one investment in the EPL after hosting what the country views as a successful World Cup. The move is both a hedge against investments in less high-profile leagues like Portugal, and due to the EPL’s continued growth and global profile.

Any potential deal — either an outright takeover or a minority stake — would further cement Qatar’s strategy of investing in sports assets, in part to boost the country’s profile and also to invest its vast wealth from natural resources.

It is unclear whether QSI have held deal talks with other EPL clubs, and any potential bid is currently at an early stage. CBS Sports first reported the meeting between QSI and Tottenham.

(The key bit for me below)

UEFA rules prohibit two teams owned outright by the same group to enter into one of the European competitions but there are currently no rules to prevent one team in a competition having a minority position in another in the same competition.



In other words - if its QSI its a minority stake for us.

Thank you.

It would be strange to spend all that money just to get a minority share in United, im assuming they may ditch psg if that's the case.

 

[VP89]

Thank you.

It would be strange to spend all that money just to get a minority share in United, im assuming they may ditch psg if that's the case.

They might. But I think the article hints PL investment is just a hedge because the other leagues don't get enough attention.

So there's a chance it's kept minority. Who knows.

 

[Red the Bear]

They might. But I think the article hints PL investment is just a hedge because the other leagues don't get enough attention.

So there's a chance it's kept minority. Who knows.

That would be the worst case scenario I'm afraid.

Either way e should find out soon enough.

 

[Harry190]

Any news from Bloomberg terminals?

It'll cost ya. Those things are expensive.

 

[AlPistacho]

Just wanna back this up by saying that the news appeared on the Bloomberg terminals that institutional investors and hedge fund use (not accessible to the general public). It's solid info for people to trade millions and billions of dollars off the back of. Bloomberg terminal doesn't exactly do a gossip column, its solid news.

I think it makes perfect sense for the Qataris to be interested, especially after the WC. They got multiple offers (of up to $4b) for a stake in PSG over the course of the tournament. If they do firm up their interest, expect a partial sale of PSG and full purchase of United.

I'm not saying this will definitely happen but that rumour isn't just a rumour, and anyone tweeting that the Qataris aren't interested probably got on the phone to their press office and asked for an official statement. "Not interested" is the line you would expect from an institution that also wants to sell something for profit at the same time they're buying.

But this came out on Bloomberg news. Bloomberg terminal is more used for quick financial updates that affects markets, or researching companies, equities and a whole bunch of other stuff.

 

[Messier1994]

From Bloomberg :

Qatar Sports Investments chairman Nasser Al-Khelaifi recently held conversations with Tottenham Hotspur chairman Daniel Levy over the possible purchase of a stake in the London-based club, according to a person with knowledge of the meeting. QSI is also considering both a full takeover or a stake in rivals including Manchester United or Liverpool FC, added the person, who asked not to be named because the discussions are private.

A spokesperson for QSI declined to comment. A Tottenham spokesman denied a meeting took place regarding the sale of equity in the club. A Manchester United spokesperson declined to comment. A Liverpool spokesperson did not respond to a request to comment. QSI’s deliberations are ongoing and may not lead to a deal.

QSI has decided to consider at least one investment in the EPL after hosting what the country views as a successful World Cup. The move is both a hedge against investments in less high-profile leagues like Portugal, and due to the EPL’s continued growth and global profile.

Any potential deal — either an outright takeover or a minority stake — would further cement Qatar’s strategy of investing in sports assets, in part to boost the country’s profile and also to invest its vast wealth from natural resources.

It is unclear whether QSI have held deal talks with other EPL clubs, and any potential bid is currently at an early stage. CBS Sports first reported the meeting between QSI and Tottenham.

(The key bit for me below)

UEFA rules prohibit two teams owned outright by the same group to enter into one of the European competitions but there are currently no rules to prevent one team in a competition having a minority position in another in the same competition.

In other words - if its QSI its a minority stake for us.

I think it’s a little ambiguous. I don’t think QSI even remotely is considering ditching PSG over night. So if they are considering a “full takeover” of any PL club — it must be something along the line with what RB Leipzig and Salzburg have done.

 

[Messier1994]

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Odds on him speaking to Tottenham?

 

[Coops73]

Thank you.

It would be strange to spend all that money just to get a minority share in United, im assuming they may ditch psg if that's the case.

I think if they are interested in United, they’ll be part of a consortium not too dissimilar to Newcastle. PIF own 80% while PCP Capital owns the rest, perhaps QSI would take 40ish% and the rest buy another 1 or 2 consortiums, effectively giving QSI control and allowing them time to sell more of PSG so that in time they will have a minority stake in PSG and increase their ownership of United.

Of course the same could be said of Liverpool and to be honest with a stadium that has been and is currently being re invested in and not having to fork out the sort of money needed for Old Trafford/Carrington it looks a more sound investment, (not that I know what I’m really talking about)

That being said with all the pics of Avram in Qatar, the Saudi tourist board pulling out of the shirt sponsorship, then this “leak” that Qatar wanting to invest in PL could also be a “hurry up” to the Glazers to accept whatever offer is on the table or we’re moving on.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Great point and I 100% agree, but I think these minority investments always comes with some kind of shareholders agreement ensuring a minority owner certain things. What does QSI want? Control over tours? Sponsorships. Etc etc etc. Those things would be governed by that agreement.

A US hedge fund might be ensured to be selected to lend money to the club when the stadium is built at a certain interest rate. Stuff like that.

Agree. They will get naming rights and tour privileges for sure.

Interestingly, Old Trafford cricket ground - next door to the football one - is now sponsored by Emirates. That could be nice little tool for any anti-Qatar protestors.

 

[Messier1994]

I think if they are interested in United, they’ll be part of a consortium not too dissimilar to Newcastle. PIF own 80% while PCP Capital owns the rest, perhaps QSI would take 40ish% and the rest buy another 1 or 2 consortiums, effectively giving QSI control and allowing them time to sell more of PSG so that in time they will have a minority stake in PSG and increase their ownership of United.

Of course the same could be said of Liverpool and to be honest with a stadium that has been and is currently being re invested in and not having to fork out the sort of money needed for Old Trafford/Carrington it looks a more sound investment, (not that I know what I’m really talking about)

That being said with all the pics of Avram in Qatar, the Saudi tourist board pulling out of the shirt sponsorship, then this “leak” that Qatar wanting to invest in PL could also be a “hurry up” to the Glazers to accept whatever offer is on the table or we’re moving on.

Yeah, and big business doesn’t have to work any way different than small business. There can be a lot of posturing. QSI meeting with Tottenham, one of the few clubs not up for sale, could definitely be a negotiating tactic if you want.

Another thing that could actually be seen as boosting the credibility of the Bloomberg report is — we just lost out on Felix and the fan base is fuming. Could be that the club wants a little leak to draw attention.

 

[crossy1686]

But this came out on Bloomberg news. Bloomberg terminal is more used for quick financial updates that affects markets, or researching companies, equities and a whole bunch of other stuff.

It was on both.

 

[crossy1686]

Any news from Bloomberg terminals?

If you want Bloomberg terminal news, follow this bot on Twitter. They've been trying to shut it down for years: https://twitter.com/DeItaone

 

[oneway]

Agree. They will get naming rights and tour privileges for sure.

Interestingly, Old Trafford cricket ground - next door to the football one - is now sponsored by Emirates. That could be nice little tool for any anti-Qatar protestors.

So no one protested against the sponsorship because it brings in much needed money, why would you want to protest against it now.

 

[Sly1]

Thank you.

It would be strange to spend all that money just to get a minority share in United, im assuming they may ditch psg if that's the case.

In this case,this will be my pick:
They may first purchase a minority stake in Man Utd while still holding majority stake in PSG. They would then give themselves some years(say 3 - 5 years) in selling further more stakes in PSG while progessively buying More shares in Man Utd. So after the said period of time (3-5 years),QSI would stand a chance of owning majority stake in Man Utd while having minority stake in that of PSG.

This could also be said about other premier league clubs such as Tottenham and Liverpool.

Other interested parties/consortia may also follow same or similar path to own us or other clubs.

 

[We need an rvn]

How would any of these ownerships work with regards to UEFA's integrity rules? Pretty sure there's a rule that says no two clubs can directly or indirectly be controlled by the same entity