Club Sale | It’s done!

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Wibble

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Did you have a servant or house maid in your house? I'm only asking because something like the bold is quite normal throughout the world where you have servants and I wonder if you are just not familiar with the process of it all.
We did very briefly as the house they gave us was ludicrously big but she transferred to another expat family when we pulled the pin and left. Locking a fridge in case someone "steal food" especially when they leaves all the household valuable on open display is screwed up beyond belief. And of course we wouldn't have even considered it.
 

shamans

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Yeah, I meant the poorer immigrants. "Ex-pats" (in brackets because its a ridiculous term but you know what I mean) in Dubai are treated like there are several steps above the rest of the immigrants. That is a complex discussion in itself which is probably left out of this.

The wages disparity I was referring to is no where near an equivalence to the west. You're quick to make these sort of topics binary when it suits you, but they are nothing of the sort. There is often a massive delta between the two which is where the actual discussion lies. Not everyone from western countries is looking at it from an elitist view-point (we're all biased, sure..), and I think it's important to remember that or we're basically all wasting our time talking about it.
Confused at what you're referring to. I was talking about general wage disparity. You make more money in the west in general .

If you talk about immigrants, they are making more money than their home countries -- India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc I'm talking about the poorest immigrants. Still not sure what you're getting at here though so I can't answer you. As for elitist mindset, I never claimed its everyone but it's there and this and many other Qatar/Middle east threads are proof of that
 

Freak

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I am not at all a fan of their running of Paris. Demanding players be played against a managers wishes and just overall arrogance. They leave a bad taste.
This is one of my biggest worries football wise if the Qatar ownership goes through - forcing players on the manager, demanding them to be played etc etc. We need to support ETH in HIS decisions, not impose anything on him.
 

shamans

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I’m really torn with this takeover.

We are a socialist club at our heart
and this takeover seems completely against our club traditions politically speaking.

Polar opposite and it’s really hard to take as a long running fan we are in such a place to just keep pace at the top of the game.

I’m not a fan of Qatar’s meddling at PSG for example. We cannot have that here. The manager must reign supreme in squad handling and players they want.

It’s in one way exciting but also pretty stomach churning at the same time. Conflicted this week with it all.
That's a whole different can of worms but how are we a socialist club. We're a mega corp with a stock market price and shareholders.
 

Castia

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Debt gone, unlimited funds in the bank, new stadium/ facilities is what we want I don’t give 2 fecks where that money comes from.

Bring on Qatar
 

Tarrou

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Confused at what you're referring to. I was talking about general wage disparity. You make more money in the west in general .

If you talk about immigrants, they are making more money than their home countries -- India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc I'm talking about the poorest immigrants. Still not sure what you're getting at here though so I can't answer you. As for elitist mindset, I never claimed its everyone but it's there and this and many other Qatar/Middle east threads are proof of that
I was referring to when you wrote something like “gasping at wage disparity in the ME when it happens in the west too”.. or something along those lines

anyway, doesn’t matter
 

Son

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Go on then Karl Marx, tell us why are we a socialist.
Course we are a socialist club. Northern England and from Manchester. Manchester is a notoriously socialist city and our club represents it more than any other.

Even today our golden boy Marcus Rashford etc. It’s socialist values and left leaning through and through. Always has been hopefully always will be.
 

Son

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That's a whole different can of worms but how are we a socialist club. We're a mega corp with a stock market price and shareholders.
It’s pretty obvious we are. Most of our matchgoing fans and the local area is for one. It’s built into the DNA of our club and the city it comes from.
 

Kinsella

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Did you have a servant or house maid in your house? I'm only asking because something like the bold is quite normal throughout the world where you have servants and I wonder if you are just not familiar with the process of it all.
:lol:
 

Escobar

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Course we are a socialist club. Northern England and from Manchester. Manchester is a notoriously socialist city and our club represents it more than any other.

Even today our golden boy Marcus Rashford etc. It’s socialist values and left leaning through and through. Always has been hopefully always will be.
You seriiusly need to google socialism
 

VP

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expats are generally the poorer people in the middle east. What's your measure of women's rights then? It's also not how just western women feel. In general most women living in Qatar love the laws of the country
I'd say women's rights should start with women not requiring permission from men to do things, wouldn't you?
 

stw2022

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The reporters that have been told information are the ones who have simply reported a bid is expected

The ones that want to appear like they've been told information too are making up shit about investment intentions, transfer budgets, signing targets etc
 

caid

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Did you have a servant or house maid in your house? I'm only asking because something like the bold is quite normal throughout the world where you have servants and I wonder if you are just not familiar with the process of it all.
:confused:
Bizarre
 

ThomasEmil

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Why are you all discussing Qatar, when the worlds richest man says he wants to buy us.
Who cares about oil in middle-east, when u get offered a SpaceX ride to work?
 

bringbackbebe

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Why are you all discussing Qatar, when the worlds richest man says he wants to buy us.
Who cares about oil in middle-east, when u get offered a SpaceX ride to work?
I'd take Qatar, or even Idi Amin any day over that fella. It'll be too much of a distraction from football.
 

devilish

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The idea that we need to be careful of propaganda but accept that women love living in Qatar is mental.

https://amp.theguardian.com/global-...ed-as-children-qatari-women-tell-rights-group
Just because religion and belief is very weak in the UK that doesn't mean that it applies everywhere. I can speak about my country who is one of the most Catholic conservative country in Europe. The church's grip was so strong that during the 60s it allowed the archbishop to basically excommunicate the labour party with labour voters being stopped from attending mass or being buried on holy grounds simply because it wanted a separation from religion and state. No one dared lifting a finger towards that injustice including the local governor and the British. That's because no one dared going against the local church not even the empire.

My grandparents had very different backgrounds. My grand father, a staunch labourite, worked in a thriving family business which made him in constant contact with foreign people. That contributed to make him quite open minded and well educated. My grand mother's father worked with the archbishop which made him as conservative as can be. Thus I was exposed of both point of view. I've met women of my grandparent's age (and even as young as women in their 40s) who believe that the good old ways were better, that women has no business in areas such as politics and high management and should stay at home bearing children. To this very day voters voting women in parliament was so shockingly low that adjustment measures were needed to facilitate women to enter parliament. That despite the majority of eligible voters in parliament are indeed women. Which is ironic really considering that the best current Maltese politician is actually female ie President of the European Parliament Roberta Metsola

I happen to have been born in a country who switched its mentality rather quickly in certain arguments such as gay rights (today Malta is at the forefront on that matter while the country I was raised in was hugely homophobic). From my experience countries will only change mentality when they are ready to do so. Forcing it either directly (war etc) or indirectly (insults, boycotts, sanctions etc) will only increase their hostility. Also note that changes aren't consistent and one can advance on one area and still be stuck in another area. Malta for example has a more stringent abortion rules then Saudi.
 

Rojofiam

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He's absolutely embarrassing, I've been reading this thread for the past 10 hours and I can't believe some of the shit this guy has posted since then...if his account wasn't from 2010 I'd totally believe that he's being paid to write those things.
 

Tarrou

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Why are you all discussing Qatar, when the worlds richest man says he wants to buy us.
Who cares about oil in middle-east, when u get offered a SpaceX ride to work?
wait he’s actually said it? I just assumed it was bollocks
 

Pickle85

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In general most women living in Qatar love the laws of the country
How good of you to speak on behalf of most women living in Qatar. That seems totally legit and absolutely not a shining example of the issue at hand.
 

11101

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I really hope it's not going to happen. The Glazers are a case of better the devil you know, I'd take those leeches all day over becoming yet another sportswashing project to legitimatise a barbaric regime. We dont crave success, we are not City or Newcastle, we know what it's like to win the right way. We don't need this.

Can't be good for PSG either. Are the Qataris going to bother with them when they have a bigger club in a better league to play with?
 

Dannn411

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A commitment to develop all areas of the club and to wipe out all debt = perfect bid no matter where its coming from. Glazers would also be mad to reject. Nobody else is going to come anywhere near Qatar's bid so they better take the offer.
 

Abdullah7

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I'm not exaggerating nor using sterotypes at all, but talking from personal experience. In our small compound 2 households didn't allow their maids to go out alone (I actually suspect none of the Emirati familes alowed them out unsupervised. They either kept them with them when they went out or dead locked them in the house. One even had a lock on the fridge that was locked when they were out.



I have the proof of my own direct experience. And friends in Dubai have many similar experiences.



So why do cover-ups happen all the time? Qatar listing thousands of health workers as suffering death from heart attacks beggars belief and is obvious bullshit.

I remember one in Dubai (albeit many years ago) where a dry dock wall collapsed. The death toll was eventually reported upwards to just under 30 (ish) but a friend who worked in the hospital counted/saw reported about 120 bodies and another friend of a friend ran the local newspaper and was told not to report anything other than what he was told to report. This was the editor who later only got 7 years for murdering his wife with a hammer (rather male centric at best I'd say). https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...tor-sentence-dubai-manslaughter-a9220466.html



Drivel? Or direct personal experience. And you are missing the point. That someone is raped isn't (sadly) the shocking thing but the issue is that a councillor was ordered to give out such private and confidential details and was sacked and deported when she (obvioulsy) refused. Expats get sacked and deported at the drop of a hat with no realistic expectation of legal protection.



I don't think anyone would think to have to have it stated in a contract that they were allowed to speak.



The problem of the law is precisely because it is based on religion. And just because other legal systems result in falsly imprisoned people (often not due to the law itself but how it was administerd - police and prosecutors for e.g.) that doesn't mean anything for the legal system in question.

And the debt story is 100% true. An entirely innocent and unconnected person imrpisoned for someone else not fulfilling a contract. The expat most likley to pay was arrested and had to pay up to get out.

But it is the systemic human rights issues and subjugation of women that most influences my desire not to want any sporst washing ownership.
The house holder is responsible for their safety, food and shelter. If he's provided that then where is the abuse. They know the culture before they agree to sign a contract. If they wanted to be out unsupervised they should have not accept the Emirate's contract and went with the Kuwaitis were they have more of freedom. They have a choice before coming to the Arabian gulf. It's not slavery or imprisonment.

As for the dry dock story. It's a corrupt individual and can't be based as the norm. Governments dose not tolerate that and act in an opposite way to it. they encourage the society to be more Islamic and honest worthy influencers. One corrupt individual dose not change this massage that we hold morally before anything els. You can't just draw conclusions out of thin air based on that.

As for your friend of a friend story. I could say what about Oj Simpson ? would you say that the U.S. judicial system is a male centric entity?

the councillor. Again a corrupt individual and you base it as the norm. It doesn't happen frequently. Just like Jeffrey Epstein abused his corrupted web of individuals to get away with things. It's a detest subject and we have people who look for those corrupted personal to prosecute them legally.

What about your own Prince Andrew, why is he getting away from being prosecuted? based on the obvious evidences shown in a Netflix series.

As for you innocent friend Look up this show in Netflix it's called 'The Innocence Files'. A great watch of the u.s. judicial system.

It's not sport washing. It's bring us together as human beings. The purpose of hosting the world cup is this simple massage.

My tripe shall put United where they belong. Tamim is one of us he is a supporter of this great club.
 

Wumminator

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My tripe shall put United where they belong. .
Worryingly apt.

just to put some further context - @Abdullah7 before has justified Kashogg’s murder by the Saudis and also specifically mentions he has no atheist or gay friends. He has been celebrating the Saudi government on here for years and doesn’t get why we were so upset when they took over Newcastle.
 
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Wumminator

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Lock the thread again.
Why?

This has been THE thread over the last few days. I’ve rarely seen something so illuminating. We’ve got people saying that Qatar isn’t that bad because people chose to enter a work force where they can’t be left unsupervised, having servants treated horribly is quite okay and it’s acceptable to believe that gay people will be punished when they die.

THIS is what people need to see. It’s all well and good saying “football is just escapism” but your escapism is going to be paid for by appalling viewpoints on human rights and dignity.

In this very thread you have people arguing that women should be controlled by men because they’re happy. That beheadings are okay from potential owners (this was another thread tbf) because it can’t be proven.

THIS is what sportswashing is. Some people will feel okay and not bothered because they love United and want them to do well. Others will love United and struggle to see such horrendous people having control of the club.

There is a price tk be paid with Qatari owners. Sentences like “if they want to be let out unsupervised they shouldn’t have taken the contract” and “servants are common across the world” is part of that price. Face up to it and admit that if you want the Qatari owners, you accept that cost. But don’t ignore the issue
 

11101

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The house holder is responsible for their safety, food and shelter. If he's provided that then where is the abuse. They know the culture before they agree to sign a contract. If they wanted to be out unsupervised they should have not accept the Emirate's contract
Sorry but :lol:

Surely one of the great Caf quotes.
 

BuzzKillington

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I genuinely think we could have won a title with ten hag under the glazers. Think we will definitely will now.
I agree, which is why this oil money takeover is pointless and probably damaging in the long term. Whatever we win beyond the point of them taking over will be tarred with the same brush as any of city’s titles.

The stadium is the long term issue, but I’d rather give up naming rights for OT for ten years or so to fund its renovation than go down this route.

Edit: I still want the Glazers gone, but I’d be happier with a consortium who are competent and able to clear the debt and allow us to spend our own money, even if they’re not as flush with cash.
 

stevoc

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Why is the US always brought up as a counter point to criticism of non-western countries? Like everyone in the so called "west" sees them as their gods or whatever.
Because instead of defending a particular country or regions misdeeds it's much easier to deflect and bog a discussion down with ''but whatabout America?''.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Whataboutism is the defense of someone who has no defense.

‘US did this’, ‘UK did that’, yes but those who criticise the Gulf states are hardly jingoistic flag waivers are they?
 
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