I agree. I took part in it and the results reflect the opinion of the real-life United fans I know here in Manchester. That's not to say it represents the views of all fans in Manchester and certainly doesn't reflect the views of our fans on Twitter... many of whom reply to every United story asking for Mason Greenwood back. There are a lot of opinions out there, it's a very complicated issue, but suggesting the poll is part of some kind of racist conspiracy is, well, pretty fecking daft. Here we are.
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I'm losing track of time these days but I could've sworn I voted on it weeks ago.
You can only imagine Newcastle's owners are truly gutted they hadn't just waited a year or so for the far sweeter prize of us, or even Liverpool!
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What if the loans are not on the club but on INEOS? INEOS takes care of the loans while United is a PR entity to show competence for the other business; kind of like the Mercedes F1 team, sort of.
Either way some level of compromise is going to be had here. Either in finance or morality things are going to be difficult.
Every poll is hijacked by opposition fans. Like when Fergie was over 50% for the sack in the late 90s in the MEN paper.
Non local supporters are worth less to Manchester Uniteds local community, as we dont live there. We are not the season ticket holders, the fans singing in the stadium, or the ones visiting the pubs in the local Manchester area on matchday. We dont contribute to the local economy, nor do we march in the streets in Green and Yellow to protest the people who threaten to take over the club when we dont feel they meet our shared values as human beings. The fans in Manchester protested by their thousands from 2005.
"Fans fear the American does not have the best interests of the club at heart and they are urging the board to reject his bid." wrote MEN in 2005. This notion has unfortunately become correct. They did not have the best interest of the club at heart, it was always an investment with annual return. Today the takeover bid comes from a regime with a very different way to view a human rghts being to exist in freedom than the rest of us. They still dont have the clubs best interest at heart.
Its helpful if we, everyone online, who reads comments like the one you are increasingly angering yourself over, and put it into a greater context than the length of the tip of our noses.
He is not saying that foreign supporters are not valuable. Of course they are. But we cant sit here with a straight face and argue that our individual inputs carry the same significance as the fans that sing the Champions League hymn at matchday, or the tens of thousands of angry fans who took to the street and collectively made the clubs back down from a unprecedented move that would have ruined the game as we know it.
The local fans and their ability to impact is always going to matter more, than anything I write online, or the jersey you buy to support the club. That does not mean it does not matter, and that is the important thing to consider when you form an opinion. The world does not deal in absolutes. The same way you cant argue a complicated issue in a tweet due to the nature of nuance where many truths can be correct, it just depends who reads them.
The same way what I wrote above is true, its also not true, because the day you travel to the stadium, take part in the matchday, spend your money at a local hotel, sing the songs and cheer the lads on, you are just as big a part of the local club that very same day.
IF anyone gets very angry at the mention of the word worth, its worth remembering that it does not actually reflect you as a person, although I am fairly certain the tendency is to take the worst meaning we can attribute and run with it. For example being disgusted by the notion that our contribution is worth less. But it factually is, so what is left to be angry about? If not for a perceived insult to yourself as a person? That is on the reader, not the messenger.
I travel to Manchester now and then to attend games, sometimes I will get a fan memorabilia to bring home. I will buy my ticket, spend some money out and about, and then go home. My contribution to the local club starts and ends with my coming and going. Everything else is meaningful, and meaningless. Every day I carry value as a fan, as one of 500 million. When I go to Old Trafford I will carry value as one of 74,310.
Only an idiot thinks Qatar is the only way to do that.
If you're going to extrapolate ownership based on that then Qatar would be terrible owners for us. They've handled PSG like an absolute circus.
I know I would log myself out..
Money over principles. Fair enough.
If INEOS profits drop, whos to say they won't start borrowing money from United to pay for itself again? that's the worry.
What is a real life United fan and how does the athletic insure the measures are put in place in their poll
Again if we have a poll on the cafe let’s see what it says.
I do not believe Ratcliffe comes on top in any poll no matter what region.
Qatar have won the media war. The telegraph which Ratcliffe was clearly using to leak a bid haven’t gone to bat for him at all. These stories about him having to borrow have been twisted into putting debt on the club which is totally disingenuous. Keegan has been acting as Qatar PR saying how much they’re going to invest in the club and area - we’ve had nothing yet from Jim other than him wanting to stick in a clause around CL qualification and paying a different price. The only way he wins this is by the fans rejecting Qatar or state ownership and there’s been no pro PR campaign to achieve that - I find it really odd.
That poll doesn’t give a Radcliffe option.
Do people generally believe that Ratcliffe is a legit bidder and not simply an attention seeking chancer?
Don't even think Ratcliffe believes that. The guy submitted a bid for Chelsea after the deadline had passed ffs.
He should come out and say that. If he was to say no debts will be placed on the club and put an offer in I’m pretty sure the support behind him would be immense.
I just don’t think he’s very serious about it at all.
Would be nice to avoid the Qataris as we can more than manage without such huge backers, but it looks inevitable.
Probably. It’s got a good Brexit feel about it though. Which has shown to be very successful. Let’s just ignore the fact he’s a Chelsea season ticket holder.
Why do people get so annoyed with polls that don't agree with them?
I think the maybe wishful thinking here can be that as a company that cares about public relations (as opposed to the Glazers) INEOS would not want to create negative press by hurting the club; it would be counter productive to the idea of having a club like United for PR reasons. Just saying, I have no idea how they do things.
Yeah I do. I don't think he'll win the bid though.
It's been said in many articles.
Also think they have to be careful what is and isn't said due to legal issues.. there is a reason we haven't heard a peep from any of the supposed bidders.
There is one side in this debate that has gone absolutely crazy over the last few days. From attacking human rights charities as groups desperate for PSG to maintain power to criticising journalists for reporting facts. The accusations of racism and generally bad faith arguing towards people who genuinely care for the club is baffling to me.
Because most people view the gulf as one entity and are genuinely not outraged by the crime but by who does it. Add to that a very limited, ignorant awareness, of what is actually going on in each country. Tbf often their perceptions are influenced by a media with its own agenda.
1) Qatar is a relatively neutral country. It’s not bombing or invading anyone. It minds its own business and invests in other countries. It’s one of the biggest givers of charity in the world.
2) The main criticisms of Qatar also apply to every other country, especially those whose media are the most vocal opponents of Qatar. Julian Assange says hi from Belmarsh prison where he’s been for 5 or more years. For exposing US war crimes.
Saudi under Bin Salmon is completely different.
1) Anti government voices are killed
2) People protesting their homes being destroyed to build new cities/roads are put in prison or killed
3) The war against Yemen is no different to Russia Vs Ukraine. Probably worse from an airstrikes point of view.
So Qatar is nothing like Saudi. It genuinely speaks to people’s ignorance (or something else )when they equate the two as being similar.
There is nothing we can do anyway. Support how? The Glazers are in control and that is that. We can only watch. If they place a debt on the club, they, INEOS, will be hated and I hope, that is not what they want.
Really dont like Saudi news. Qatar or SJR for me. Saudi bid risks our future if we have to compete against PIF
I was referring to people, as in human beings, who I, also a real person, know in my actual physical life. These people, in my real life, are supporters of Manchester United and we have had conversations, in person, that reflect the opinion of that particular poll. As I said, these are just people I know in real life, in Manchester, who support Manchester United and is a small sample size that will likely not replicate the opinions of Red Cafe.What is a real life United fan and how does the athletic insure the measures are put in place in their poll
Again if we have a poll on the cafe let’s see what it says.
I do not believe Ratcliffe comes on top in any poll no matter what region.
The main criticisms of Qatar being that - women are not allowed to be free, gay people are not allowed to exist and that migrant workers are treated horrendously with hundreds dying, apply to other countries as well?
I do half agree with the support having no real impact. But you could argue strongly that we’re at this stage because of fan action to remove the Glazers.
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We’re going to rip everything up just when we’ve got our shit together.
He wants to bid 4bn for a 1-2bn discount, on the back of fan sentiment etc and hopefully backlash against the middle east. Probably would pay lipservice for a few years then flip it if he won it, but mostly just wants the profile/slow news cycles.
We all have jobs, some of us for huge companies. If that was the price, so many other bidders would be interested. But they don't live in fairy land where bids for a few billion less are accepted, so they don't waste their time. If you made a fire sale for the club at 4bn, it'd be like the costco line at 7am when they sold the sony OLED for £600. Nobody else is wasting their time, because thats not the price. Hell if the price was 4bn I could probably get it off JSC and moonlight as Man Utd chairman for a season or two. We could do management and transfer votes by poll on redcafe.
Yet Ratcliffe keeps briefing that this is his bid etc etc....
Whoever the owner is, we need a better transfer structure. We can't go by Ten Hag recommendations alone. I'm not sold on the likes of Frenkie, we need a proper committee to identify and decide the talent for future despite who is our manager.
If I'm not mistaken, ineos is a public company and thus accountable to their shareholders. Putting themselves on the hook for 6bn worth of loans without using the club as collateral does not seem as if it would be acting in the best interest of the shareholders
Thats the same guy who said "death is a natural part of life" when pushed on death of migrant workers in Qatar, FYI
https://theathletic.com/3982422/2022/12/08/qatar-world-cup-migrant-worker-death-2/
Arnold is easily replaced.
I do not think any capitalist businessman will buy United without any strings attached. Sure, the debt might be in INEOS for example, but then likely there will be dividends from United that will go to their parent company. And it is very unlikely that INEOS/Ratcliffe will give money to United (which we probably might need if we want to compete with City/Newcastle).
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PRatcliffe is a joke at this stage.
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