I mean for more and more people around the world that's what it is. I mean it's still local sports, but plenty of people probably said the same when all the sky money came in, when players started getting 250,000 a week that it became a bit soulless.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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For 17 years we’ve been fighting to push out the Glazers, never accepting them as owners of our club but suddenly now oil wealth is involved there is nothing we can do. It’s rank hypocrisy, and I’m sure if the fan base rose against the Qatari bid it would fail. Never going to happen though cos MbaaappeeeeeeePeople didn't just "accept it" when the Glazers took overbig difference between not walking away and rolling out the red carpet. Although I admit, a state wealth of 330bn can make it easier.
Come on man, it’s Al Thani - be respectful at least!
You mean because the majority of fans don't care.
House of Thani, Game of Thrones, Capi de tutti capi, you chooseCome on man, it’s Al Thani - be respectful at least!
Some fans will do anything for a bit of Thani
I’ll choose capi de bara thanks!House of Thani, Game of Thrones, Capi de tutti capi, you choose
Finally playing some great football and still in four competitions. Scary thought but the Glazers would be crazy to sell now. I’m certain they think in another 5/10 years the club will be worth over 10b
He’s probably right in the sense that the majority of fans just want the owner with the most money, regardless of the source. Whether that’s because the years under the current ownership have made United fans much more agreeable to it than they otherwise would’ve been, or because that’s just what comprises modern football fandom (particularly for global fans who just by virtue of where they were born are likely to have less of a connection to the particular history and heritage of the top European clubs)…we can only speculate. It’s probably a combination of both.
There does seem to be some limit to the acceptability of state ownership though. If, for argument’s sake, an offer came in from Russia or China then I’d say the vast majority would be strongly against it. (Although I suspect some of the protestations would just be performative as Wumminator’s trawls illustrated)
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Love it that the mods are split on this.
What about a hybrid of crowdfunding/fan ownership. (Don’t laugh too hard at least I’m trying.)
I think most supporters would love fan ownership but we all think there would never be enough money. Also clubs like Farcelona have set a terrible example - but we’re not them. Firstly, we have the biggest fan base in football and secondly we don’t have to do it how others have.
How much do we actually need? With the infrastructure sorted doesn’t FFP mean a bottomless pit of money doesn’t really help us?
Let’s say £10b does everything we need and leaves a sizeable war chest.
The way I see it we’d need to find 10,000 people who’d put in a million quid each. It could probably be less some would do more. The likes of Ratcliffe and Sheikh Jassim could put in a couple of hundred million between them - if they love the club as much as they say they do.
And the ordinary supporter? We can invest too. (There’d need to be a minimum value to keep out the saboteurs)
Here’s the rub. However much you put in you only get one vote. (Though more money would mean you own a bigger proportion of the club). Season tickets holders would all get a vote (maybe more?) without putting more money in.
Why would the multimillionaires be interested? Because who from that world wouldn’t want to be able to say they’re part of it. If we have hundreds of millions of fans there must be plenty of wealth. They could have some kind of exclusive memberships and bask in the kudos.
Before you all shout me down. Just think - why not?
If the Glazers sell it could be a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Imagine if our entire fanbase mobilised. Imagine the reaction of our favourite rivals. Imagine if there was break from bickering on the caf and everyone actually got behind something. (OK that last point is a bit far fetched).
People will say it can’t be done but that's never stopped us before.
I didn't say that's "just" what Manchester United is. The "go to Manchester" thing would maybe make sense if I wasn't 15-20 minutes walk from OT - I've posted pictures here before. I'm also not dismissive of people's concerns/issues with a potential take over - I'm just not particularly fond of making others feel bad about things they have little to no control over and/or sitting around in a circle lamenting a potential takeover when this was always a very real possibility.
Plenty of match going fans share similar sentiment:
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there's nothing inherently wrong with being a gold digger, by the way.
People do differ on topics around here.
With Avram and Joel owning 33%, they would only need to buy out their sister Darcy’s 18% to retain control of the club. At the family’s valuation it would only take about 1bn to buy her out. I’m guessing that it’s a realistic and manageable debt load for the brothers.
This is the nightmare
This is the nightmare
how would they get the $1bn though? The only way they could afford that is to either sell shares themselves (taking them under 50%), or increase the debt massively (which the club is already struggling to maintain)
is just doesn't seem like a realistic possibility
also, Qatar are likely happy to outbid the Glazers own valuation if need be - which is another sticking point. And that's before you even consider they need money for the stadium.
honestly, this entire thing about some of them wanting to stick around is a negotiation tactic. It's textbook - but as soon as you apply some logic to it it falls apart.
the longer the Glazers leave to sell, the fewer buying options there will be. As the serious money will go after Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal etc... This is their golden opportunity to get way more than the book value.
Can mods give points and ban other ?
Not even. They could simply buy an appropriate fraction of Bryan, Kevin, Darcy, and Kevin’s shares to get them there. Bryan and Darcy probably want no part of United anymore as the former runs the Bucs and the latter has all kinds of other interests other than Sport. Kevin is probably also in the same category as his primary interest is commercial real estate. Seems it’s only the Joel and Avi - the two sons most closely affiliated with United who would be amenable to an arrangement where they retain control through some form of restructuring.
Let me one up you…they could do an equity swap with their siblings….Joel and Avram’s Tampa Bay Buccaneer’ interests for their siblings‘ Man Utd shares.
Or better still, they can all feck off.
I just don't think they will stay -- they are just dropping this nugget of info to ensure they maximise the final price. Nobody can be that tone deaf.
The possibilities are endless, which is why its important to not take the idea that the Glazers may try something that allows Joel and Avi to continue too lightly and blow it off because we think its simply a negotiating tactic to WUM the Qataris into bidding more.
That's not how it works. Any shares owned by the Glazers have 10x the voting power of any non Glazer shares, they'd only need about 10% ownership to have total control
But the amount of investment needed he next few years to stay competitive against Newcastle, City, Chelsea, arsenal, Liverpool and Tottenham as well as on the stadium and infrastructure is far beyond them. Anything short of a super league makes it not very profitable
It is a bit funny how in this thread a few people attempt to assert with confidence what "most fans" want in regards to the ownership question. There is no tool to even begin to measure the balance of opinion among the fanbase on this topic, but people will try to do so because they think doing so will lend weight to their own arguments.
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You have absolutely nailed it,was speaking to my cousin at meal today and he is in that group of supporters who prefer Ratcliffe
Not going to rise against it because I'm intrigued what they can do,might be different if Ratcliffe wasn't about ROI and more of an Abramovich
Anything but the US vultures. We’ll be bankrupt within 10 years if that happens.
Since there's a few fans for whom the moral implications of a Qatari buy-out would see them stop following the club, so for those that do support the Qatari bid without any reservations what do you do with this hypothetical:
t's not beyond the realms of possibility that many of our first teams setups would be strongly against such ownership. Let's say EtH (or Rashford, whatever) is one of those that is morally-outraged by the prospect of a successful Qatari bid and if/when it happens, he resigns. What then?
t's not beyond the realms of possibility that many of our first teams setups would be strongly against such ownership. Let's say EtH (or Rashford, whatever) is one of those that is morally-outraged by the prospect of a successful Qatari bid and if/when it happens, he resigns. What then?
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Once, the debt has been removed, trophies start flowing in and plans to rebuild OT are set in motion these groups will become irrelevant.
I think they'd rather cut their ballsacks off than give up shares in an NFL franchise, which is highly profitable without spending a dime on "transfer fees" or anything of the sort.
The Denver Broncos sold for a record US$ 4.65bn, which is still way less than the current asking price for Utd. If they truly believe that in 10, 15 years time, the club valuation would be around 10 bn sterling, it's hardly a stretch to imagine they would be unwilling to do that swap.
People seem to just assume that they completely neglect us, based on the state of the club, but there has been enough reports to show that everything financial at least has to be approved by them directly, down to the most inconsequential thing like a few perks for first team players. If they are that tight fisted with a few quids, they won't easily give up control of the club if they believe there are still more gains to be made.
What about that 3rd American bid?
It isn't even a bid but they'll finance one?
It isn't even a bid but they'll finance one?
a double up in 10/15 years time is a poor return
Love the bits about fans not loving to day the least Qatar potential ownership being irrelevant.
As if the ones who can't wait for it are deciding who is relevant and who's not.
As if the ones who can't wait for it are deciding who is relevant and who's not.
For that valuation to go to 10 bn they are going to have to put in a atleast around a 1 bn or more just for the stadium and facilities and they don't have that money and given they tried and failed to attract minority investment, i don't think anyone's willing to give it to them.
Only problem is they now have to pump a significant amount of money into the club just to keep us competitive. Not even factoring in the need for a new stadium and infrastructure which they have neglected for more than a decade. That will eat into any future valuation they think is possible, especially without the super league. You can see why they feel the need to sell or at the very minimum get investment, which won't be in the form of more debt
With an NFL franchise they don't need to spend a dime to be profitable. Even whether or not the team is successful doesn't have too much of an impact on the bottom line. Its all cyclical anyways and a poor performing team will likely not stay that way through the draft process every off season. Any new stadium that needs to be built will also likely be paid for by the state/government as is common.
We aren't talking about owning Utd vs other form of investment, it's owning Utd vs owning Tampa Bay Buccaneers. If the former is projected to grow faster than the latter, an equity swap makes sense.
Owning sports team is more about prestige than anything else anyway. Had they sold us for, say, 2 bn pounds, way back in 2010-11 when there were rumours of Saudi circling, that money would've likely tripled or quadrupled by now just putting them into tech stocks, but that's not how they operate.
I think it’s fanciful in the extreme.
Didn’t Rashfords agent meet with PSG not too long ago and ETH was on a shortlist for PSG.
When people think of these scenarios there is a very real world example out there in fact three.
City, Newcastle and PSG. There isn’t a single case of a manager or player not going to or quitting those clubs for the same reasons.
I've yet to see that ever happening in football.
If reports are to be believed Elliott is offering them exactly that. Fans backlash aside, and let's face it, they've never seemed much troubled by it, unless when it starts eating into their bottom line, capital injection for a minority stake is ideal for them to keep the gravy train rolling. Probably banking on the fact that given how well EtH is doing, he could do a Fergie for them and any animosity will soon subside if we are back winning stuffs.
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