Club Sale | It’s done!

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buchansleftleg

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I'm taking the fact that we have'nt had any briefs yet from the Glazers about bids being "too low " or being rejected out of hand, to be a very positive indicator that we are there...or there abouts in terms of completing this sale process. Would e greatif the Glazers were on the way out by the end of March!
 

Moston Red

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Are there any squeaky clean billionaires out there with 8 billion spare to buy and redevelop a football club?
 

Tincanalley

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Buying a Premiership football club is just like purchasing a Choc Ice. You need to go to shop. Get the attention of the one behind the counter. Then clearly point to the desired item, fumble in your pocket for change...
 

stevoc

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Nothing to do with this topic. But as it’s been going on.

The media used the 6500-25000 dead migrants figure. You choose which one. It varies according to the paper you read. To portray that these are the migrants that died on the job, or even while building stadiums. As has been proving. But the truth really cannot overcome propaganda. The stats actually referred to . 6500 = South Asian migrants. 25000 = All migrants. That died in Qatar of any cause over a 10 year period. Qatar is 80% migrant population.

Also it speaks of peoples own ignorance and racism when 1) they assume all South Asian migrants are labourers 2) it doesn’t even occur to them that Qatar also considers westerners as migrants.
Is workers having to live in hovels and work in appalling conditions propaganda as well?
 

Woziak

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Good post, in my opinion. Sir Jim is still in the game, I would say. There are other factors which are rarely mentioned, touched on here. Things are going to get 'interesting' now.
SJR is very much in the game and should
be taken far more seriously, if Avram and Joel want to a deal, he is the obvious choice and as long as he has his feet under the table with 51%, he can then make a play for the other 18% later however I’m sure that Joel and Avram percentile is about 28% so he would only own 41% if he bought the other 4 siblings out for Say £3bn and then he paid the debt through Ineos and became part of Trio of owners where the other two brothers could make things difficult if they chose not to agree with his decision as CEO, not ideal but not out of the question either!
 

stevoc

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“Workers on “free visas” enter the country on a work visa under a local sponsor, but must find their own jobs. The scheme is illegal.” This is actually in the article.

Not sure how that’s a government thing. Did you even read the article you posted?
Are you saying it's not the responsibility of the Qatari government to enforce Qatari law?
 

Woziak

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I'm taking the fact that we have'nt had any briefs yet from the Glazers about bids being "too low " or being rejected out of hand, to be a very positive indicator that we are there...or there abouts in terms of completing this sale process. Would e greatif the Glazers were on the way out by the end of March!
Exactly most of the Press and Media is hyperbole speculation, no one apart from The Raine Group, SJR and company, The Glaziers and SJ group no anything whatsoever, no news could indeed be good news.
Finally a sensible, rational well thought out post
 

Wibble

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They’re tourist cards, agents are deceiving them into thinking they can be transferred into work visas. Now they are stuck in a black market and can’t get jobs or proper jobs. It’s sad but it’s not a “Qatar Government” thing.

Really confusing why people can’t see that article should really be about international criminality
A black market that the government created to get cheap Labor in before the world cup and can disown now. If they really disapproved they would crack down on the internal sponsors, which they haven't.
 

TrebleChamp99

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There is a lot of conjecture in suggestions the Jassim bid is from Qatar. You're right there is no proof. What's more there seems a district change in approach to United, less open, than in other Qatar purchases that cannot be explained with proof. If indeed someone thinks Qatar is purchasing United. There is historical precedence where benefactors have purchased clubs which go largely ignored, old uncle Jack or RA. They're not on the level of the united sale, even after taking into account time variation of money, and there seems plenty of myths, which with a little research e.g. reading annual reports etc can be busted. e.g. QIA owning the majority of QIA which is false, Jassim/HJB being a close relative of the Emir. A prominent comment from some is that HJB had roles in running the country and QIA. He (HBJ) was removed immediately from positions of power in 2013 by the current Emir and hasn't been given power back. I'm not sure how people square the position that Jassim, whose father who was removed from power and never allowed back is currently being backed by the Emir. That is particularly questionable given the size of the family, and the distance from the Emir to Jassim. It is also just as questionable to think QIB might have been set up to buy United, that sure is some far ahead wishful thinking/planning.

That leads to, if not the Qatar state, where is the money coming from, frankly I have zero idea. It's naïve to think it's definitely coming from the state, I trust the process will know. I do have concerns, one being a comment from HBJ, where it is reported that he labelled United's operating activity to marketing (what new marketing?), and I have questions about how such wealth was gained. Equally I have concerns about INEOS. Some have said both bids don't seem entirely clean, it's hard to know.

One of the best posts in this thread thank you.
 

AlPistacho

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A black market that the government created to get cheap Labor in before the world cup and can disown now. If they really disapproved they would crack down on the internal sponsors, which they haven't.
A bit of mental gymnastics to suit your agenda there. I suppose by your logic, if the British government really disapproved of illegal traffickers they’d crack down and none would exist.
 

Oranges038

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Stay on topic. Also please note media lost all credibility about migrant deaths after exploiting the ignorance of the British public, with headlines that did not match statistics.
Whatever about migrant deaths and sportwashing.

Does that same media ever tell the ignorant British public how many billions of pounds worth of weapons and munitions that the UK send to the middle east every year?
 

TrebleChamp99

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People want to hope it will be infact a cover for QSI or QIA because if it’s not they will come for our players as a matter of urgency.
 

Wibble

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There is a lot of conjecture in suggestions the Jassim bid is from Qatar. You're right there is no proof. What's more there seems a district change in approach to United, less open, than in other Qatar purchases that cannot be explained with proof. If indeed someone thinks Qatar is purchasing United. There is historical precedence where benefactors have purchased clubs which go largely ignored, old uncle Jack or RA. They're not on the level of the united sale, even after taking into account time variation of money, and there seems plenty of myths, which with a little research e.g. reading annual reports etc can be busted. e.g. QIA owning the majority of QIA which is false, Jassim/HJB being a close relative of the Emir. A prominent comment from some is that HJB had roles in running the country and QIA. He (HBJ) was removed immediately from positions of power in 2013 by the current Emir and hasn't been given power back. I'm not sure how people square the position that Jassim, whose father who was removed from power and never allowed back is currently being backed by the Emir. That is particularly questionable given the size of the family, and the distance from the Emir to Jassim. It is also just as questionable to think QIB might have been set up to buy United, that sure is some far ahead wishful thinking/planning.

That leads to, if not the Qatar state, where is the money coming from, frankly I have zero idea. It's naïve to think it's definitely coming from the state, I trust the process will know. I do have concerns, one being a comment from HBJ, where it is reported that he labelled United's operating activity to marketing (what new marketing?), and I have questions about how such wealth was gained. Equally I have concerns about INEOS. Some have said both bids don't seem entirely clean, it's hard to know.
What is naieve is believing it must be ok because "the process" will know.

The whole point is to hide the true ownership sufficiently so that ownership of PSG doesn't prevent the purchase of United.

If the Glazers knew/found out they would keep it very quiet as they want their 6 billion quid.
 

Real Name

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I estimate around 70-80% of people who object to the Qataris on human rights grounds are virtue signalers.

Only 20-30% (possibly much less) are consistent and highlight/protest human rights issues in other areas of society.

The others bring it up to make themselves feel better (oh look, I'm such a morally superior person) or do it to score cheap points (rival fans). They pontificate about how awful it all is online while munching on their lunch from Harrods (Qatari backed) after their daily morning reading of the Independent (Saudi owned with a Russian editor who's father was a former Russian KGB agent)
Just got back from Harrods to read this. You got me, along with all the other moral police.
 

Wibble

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Yeah true. I would reply further but I best start the 200 mile journey to Harrods now if I want to make it there for lunch. Shouldn’t have wasted that time this morning reading the paper really.

Don’t you think it’s best to shout about 5% of injustices in the world than none at all? Especially if it directly applies to something I spend a large amount of my time involved with? Why on earth would I have a discussion about Qatari involvement in Harrods, on a United forum, in a thread about United ownership.
But what about ......
 

AlPistacho

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Whatever about migrant deaths and sportwashing.

Does that same media ever tell the ignorant British public how many billions of pounds worth of weapons and munitions that the UK send to the middle east every year?
Only to gloat… and with a sense of pride.
 

jm99

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SJR is very much in the game and should
be taken far more seriously, if Avram and Joel want to a deal, he is the obvious choice and as long as he has his feet under the table with 51%, he can then make a play for the other 18% later however I’m sure that Joel and Avram percentile is about 28% so he would only own 41% if he bought the other 4 siblings out for Say £3bn and then he paid the debt through Ineos and became part of Trio of owners where the other two brothers could make things difficult if they chose not to agree with his decision as CEO, not ideal but not out of the question either!
As long as any Glazers stay, their shares have 10x the voting power of anyone else, so they only need 9.1% of the club to have total voting rights. No-one on their right mind is buying out the other Glazers for 3bn plus, and still basically not getting a say on how the club is run
 

cyberman

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Don't be deliberately obtuse.
To be fair the words UK government and immigration doesn’t give them any brownie points in this discussion. I’ve read they’re moving immigrants out to boats if not to Rwanda now?
 

IRN-BRUno

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Reading the following article about the turmoil Malaga have faced while under the ownership of one of the Al-Thani familly makes me wonder if they are the right people to own a club like Man Utd:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65042578

The claims of them agreeing to a 400m refurbishment of the local Marina then being unable to provide the funds, falling out with club partners, failing to appear when the dispute with the club partner ended up in court, and the club being relegated with unimaginable debts are quite alarming.
What relation is this guy to Sheikh Jassim?
 

Solius

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wont be much news which Raine are working through the bids
Hopefully that's good news then. If the valuations weren't acceptable in some way to them then surely they'd just reject purely based on the number.
 

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What is naïve is believing it must be ok because "the process" will know.

The whole point is to hide the true ownership sufficiently so that ownership of PSG doesn't prevent the purchase of United.

If the Glazers knew/found out they would keep it very quiet as they want their 6 billion quid.
It seems you don't quite get my post, the process will know more than i will ever know. It's not the whole point, that has been dismissed given there is already owners of multiple clubs. Not to worry if INEO owns 3 clubs. Better 3 than 2 right?
 

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There is a lot of conjecture in suggestions the Jassim bid is from Qatar.
Here's an opinion from Qatari state media that suggests very strong links between the bid and the state
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/20...ited-bid-qatar-signals-global-sporting-intent

Jassim’s bid has not come as a surprise to experts who say it aligns with his country’s ambition to be seen as a sporting powerhouse.
His interest in Manchester United suggests that Qatar is embarking on the next stage of this ambition, according to Ross Griffin, an assistant professor at Qatar University whose research interests include the portrayal of the Arab world in Western media and the relationship between sport and postcolonial society.

“Qatar’s ambition [in sport] is breaking up into two branches,” he said. The first will continue to focus on Qatar hosting sporting events such as the Asian Cup in 2024 and the Asian Games in 2030 while the potential purchase of a Premier League football club would be part of the second branch.
 
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Tincanalley

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What an absolute steaming heap this post is. :houllier:
Indeed. This thread though shows how influential Redcafe is in the harsh world of 'out there' and the importance the bidders attach to the views of supporters and fans. One of the reasons, perhaps, why the mods took a while before posting the poll. Clearly when you research United's online fanbase, you soon discover this place, which has arguably some of the most diverse and representative views among fan forums. Then your high-end PR team go to work. That is not to say, of course, that all pro-Quatar posters are shills. Or that a load of our 'fanbase' are not kids who only ever experience football on a computer screen. Or some ilk of selfish escapists who could not give a toss about the morals or ethics of a state bidder (or any other qualities in an owner; remember all the apparent Glazer shills). There is clearly an element though, which is intentional, calculated and deliberate. An awful lot of newbies with oddly detailed 'knowledge'.
 

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More from Al Jazeera..
In terms of what there is to gain for the state of Qatar, Griffin said the answer is simple:

“Qatar gets the association with one of the most glamorous football clubs in the world, a powerful brand, a social media army of millions and a worldwide presence that you can’t put a price tag on.”
 

LawCharltonBest

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Perhaps no news is good news for the early part of this week

I would imagine that the feedback will be given to the bidders in the next day or two. If the offers were nowhere near and things clearly weren't going to happen I think we'd be hearing something, silence would suggest they're at least being weighed up
 

stevoc

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So the U.K. governments throughout the years are guilty for every murder that has taken place on these shores?
What? What does that have to do with what we're talking about?

You have claimed migrant workers being funneled into Qatar isn't a 'government thing' eg not the governments problem because the scheme used to bring them in is illegal under Qatari law. Whose responsibility is it to enforce that law?

If the Qatari government really wanted to stem the flow of migrants being brought into the country to be exploited they could do that no problem. But they don't, so you have to ask yourself why don't they stop it?
 
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stevoc

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Low paid workers in the U.K. live in palaces?
Are you capable of having a conversation on difficult topics like this without constantly trying to deflect with whataboutisms?

No there are no camps in the UK where tens of thousands of migrant workers live in squalid and cramped conditions. As observed by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and numerous independent journalists in Qatar.
 

BarstoolProphet

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A bit harsh saying that is the opinion of state media. The article also doesn't state that at all. I try to follow the news in the region (specifically UAE) but this reads more like an opinion piece than actual research. Quotes are from two individuals not tied to the government. Not saying the quotes are untrue though, as Jassim probably will have the backing of the government in doing the deal (unlike the peripheral Al Thani who bought Malaga for real estate investment purposes) but a bit rich saying this is a state media briefing and the headline you created out of it.
 
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