The PL is becoming the Super league. Teams such as Brighton and West Ham can afford to buy internationals from Brazil, Germany and Argentina. It will be very expensive to get us back to winning the PL and the CL. Super rich owners have changed the dynamics of the game.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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If there was a thread for uneducated opinions and people getting their knickers in a twist when people don't agree with their opinion, it's this one.
so you’re predicting a pretty modest return then
around similar to current inflation levels, or less? Depends on price obviously
I would expect we’ll be worth a bit more personally
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But those figures are incorrect, minus Ronaldo our playing wage bills stands around 205.
In all honesty I don’t see how we don’t end up being bought by the most filthiest of rich bastards. We’re the club every sugar daddy has been longing for.
Yeah I have been reading Marks' book on market cycles. SM Caen to be our feeder club, off we go!
What on earth are you on about?
(a) There is not one example in this thread where anyone have said that they do not care about for example human rights or climate change if someone is willing to give money to the club.
(b) It Is however a fact that who the Glazers sell, is not up to us to decide. The Glazers will sell their shares to whomever pays the most — and as usual we, the fans, have to deal with the consequences of that.
(c) I am not OK with the Saudi’s owning this team. But we could end up with Saudi ownership even if I am not OK with it. Right?
So how should I feel when a player bought with Saudi money scores a goal? Should I stop being a fan of the team? You tell me. What is “right”?
I know how I will feel, I will celebrate that goal because football is good. Manchester United is good. We the fans, the community, we are good. The world will not become a better fan if we cease to exist.
(c) What you are talking about have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with sportswashing.
Sportswashing is a term used to describe the practice of individuals, groups, corporations, or governments using sports to improve reputations tarnished by wrongdoing.
We are not the wife of a mafioso who condemn what he is doing but still spends the money. We didn’t chose to marry the Saudis. We didn’t become fans of a team owned by the saudis. We were here first. We at most are the citizens of a district ‘taken over’ by drug dealers. Do we pack up and leave or take up the fight?
The numbers are right from the official income statement of Manchester United PLC.
So what you're saying is basically that the official financial report is incorrect without delivering any arguments or evidence.
I don't say that what you're saying has to be wrong. But without any reliable factual basis or at least a comprehensible argumentation to back your opinion the discussion is feeling really tiresome. I'm sorry.
And I don't think that CR37 is leaving without any claims for compensation. So IMO you can't just subtract the CR37 salary from the expenses and believe that this is a reliable calculation.
He wants the Glazers to leave it up to the season ticket holders over which bid they choose…
What could possibly go wrong?
The man is clueless. He has a habit of making these grand statements and it’s completely unnecessary. What he’s saying here is he wants oil money, he just can’t say it
He is talking idealistic bollocks as usual. Look forward to the day when he sells Salford he asks the fans to pick who the winning bid is regardless of price. Not convinced he wants oil money though - season ticket holders will want Ratcliffe I think.
This is why I do not understand why so many here were against the Super League. What's happening in the PL is far worse than the supposed SL concept. It's gotten to the point were virtually all big clubs in the league are going to be owned by states and it absolutely disgusts me that this has been allowed, but what can you do? You either sink or swim. Even United and Liverpool, two of the most iconic football clubs and recognized brands in the world, have no choice anymore, they genuinely can't compete with this shit.
when is the statement from? Is Pogba included? Lingard? Mata? Matic?
What date is the statement, that’ll likely give you some idea as to why it differs from the reported current playing wage.
And yes, it’s been confirmed by several sources now that Ronaldo left by mutual consent with zero compensation; which was obvious regardless once he broke contractual terms with his interview.
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There's some naivety to think whoever buys the club wouldn't need to 'structure' the purchase somehow. If it isn't a state owned/oil baron that is. You can probably count the number of super wealthy businessmen who have £6bn on the hip to buy the club outright on the fingers of one hand that's going to be missing some fingers.
Even the super, super wealthy their net worth is usually tied up in estimated value of assets they own rather than sitting in the bank
Even the super, super wealthy their net worth is usually tied up in estimated value of assets they own rather than sitting in the bank
Spot on. I was here before the Glazers, and I'm still here afterwards. I'll be here before any new owner, and hopefully after they leave.
This is my team. Until the team/club begin to do things that deter me away from them, then I'm here...irrespective of who the owner is.
The problem with Super League was that you could swim, but never sink!
Many here were opposed to the SL in its closed format. It was an attempt by the biggest clubs to make themselves richer
Yes I’ve read that in multiple sources, they both wanted out
A) Maybe not, but many, many posts in here is in the realm of «its the only way we can compete» and «we fans have nothing to say for or against so i dont care» and “ if you can’t beat them, join them». All fair I guess - but still evidence that sports washing works.
B) Of course. No denying that. How you care/react is the relevant factor here. Not much you can do anyway, but there is a possibility/choice of being either vocally sad/outraged/negative against petrostates owning the club, or the “well, I have given up anyways, at least we get our share of the petrodollars. Can’t beat them - let’s join them” approach. With the latter being a prime evidence that sports washing works.
Also - yes. You should of course celebrate every time a united player scores a goal, no matter who our owners are.
C) I don’t know how you fail to see that moving a reputation from outrage and horror to ignorance and “I don’t care anymore - let’s win some trophies” is improvement, and the essence of sports washing.
Thanks a lot for sharing this with us, honorable Mr mitchmouse.
I think Mr Neville addresses an important point.
I also think that it will be a very relevant success factor to make sure that the next owner of the club shows his face.
People at least need to know who the responsible persons are going to be - different from what we've experienced with the Glazers.
Secondly, I think what he says about a "Manifesto" is also very important.
Future success in this highly competitive surrounding will only come if sporting, financial and philosophical/cultural factors are in harmony.
I'll give you some examples from the world of successful businesses to showcase what I'm talking about:
Apple Inc & Corporate Culture
The success story of Apple derives from a unique corporate culture.
They know who they are and what they want because they have defined intrinsic values that they follow. They have a concept.
"1. Creativity and innovativeness. Apple pursues the business strategy of product differentiation with the focus on the design and functionality of products and services. An effective implementation of this strategy in practice requires a high level of creativity and innovativeness from employees at all levels. Accordingly, in order to encourage their employees to be more creative and innovative, the company attempts to develop relevant working environment. Creative design of Apple Campus, informal dress codes and creatively designed working space can be mentioned to illustrate this point."
Src: https://research-methodology.net/apple-organizational-culture/
Tesla Inc
The success story of Tesla is to a large extent influenced by Elon Musk being a public face and identification figure.
This makes the whole company as well as its products favorable for the broad customer base.
So there are high profile examples that (in my opinion) furnish clear evidence for specific strategies that make businesses successful.
In my view is not much reason to doubt that applying those factors to Manchester United should be expected to work as well.
That’s why it’s very likely we’ll be bought by a consortium, the cost of borrowing is too high to load loads of debt on the club and meet FFP demands and progress on/off the pitch. That’s one of the reasons Glazers have to go because the debt we have at moment is more than enough.
The club isn’t on a position to be squeezed anymore, Glazers have taken all the meat off the bone. The next owners have to come in with intention of investing and growing the club otherwise they have no chance of getting anything out of their investment.
How is it spot on? He’s in denial about sports washing, and arguing a point no one has made.
To be clear:
One can hate the owners, be vocally against everything they stand for, while still supporting the club. Basically what most of us do today.
Giving up and giving in is what I’m not OK with.
Indeed. And I think most prefer local rivalries. I'd ratherbsee us play the likes of West Ham and Southampton every week than Barca, Real et al. The fear is it will kill the PL eventually. Europe competition was always then icing on the cake but domestically competition where it's always been at. Perhaps global punters think differently.
Because the proposed ESL would change too much about the game. With no relegations/promotions, it would turn into a weird, incestuous thing where unless a team can actually win the title, it's largely irrelevant how their season goes. Pretty soon, any club that isn't a candidate for the trophy would begin to speculate in spending as little as possible because there are no real consequences. The numbers that were laid out indicated that it would cost more to remain competitive than you get back from finishing, say, 5th or so. In that case, why not just spend nothing and languish in the bottom half, raking in the guaranteed income offered to all clubs in the league? Imagine if we took the current season's PL and said these are the clubs that will remain forever in the top flight. Why would Wolves ever spend money again? Clubs like that spend money in order to remain in the league, not because they think they have any chance of rising up and becoming actual competitors. Take away relegation and you take away their reason to exist.
Even if that should prove not to happen after all, it would just be dull to watch the same few clubs from each major footballing nation, with no opportunity for anyone to fall out or anyone else to ever join the competition. One of two things would happen: either the entire pyramid of the sport collapses or football will be split up into two completely separate games where you follow either the traditional league or the ESL, with no overlap whatsoever; and since the former would be utterly incapable of competing financially with the ESL clubs, the top flights of even countries like England and Spain would quickly regress to a level more akin to the Danish or Albanian leagues. Whatever the case, it would be an absolute disaster for football as a whole.
The ESL could work if it replaced the CL as an actual seasonal structure that includes last season's best teams from each league. But that's not what they proposed.
I think the club could survive, even thrive in short to medium term. I think we're probably at or nearing the limit though that we can do that under current ownership. I've never bought this idea the owners have seen us as a cash cow to milk and asset strip. Yes they've taken dividends but they're proportionate to those paid under the PLC relative to revenues and turnovers at the time.
I've never really bought into this idea that X money going into shareholders pockets was fine by X amount going into the owners pockets was ever something worth getting the bed sheets and permanent marker over.
I do think though the Glazers know their current strategy isn't going to work long term. They can currently afford to invest in first team at current market values and spending expectations. In five-ten years? Probably not. The investment needed in stadium would need come through borrowing. This is another factor.
They either act now or they cross their fingers and hope for best but that approach risks the slowing of increase of the value of he asset.
How exactly was super league better? If esl went through we would be like an american franchisee, doesn't matter if we win or lose, the rat haired cnuts still get paid, current structure means they have to actually atleast spend to get top 4 or their own share gets a hit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but sportswashing is for the reputation of the buyer? To help them improve their image?
I'm not sure how supporting the club would help with their sportwashing?
If anything, as you've alluded to, by them purchasing us, they'd get even more scrutiny.
We've shown with the Glazers that we will put you on the front news for all the wring reasons. So a big risk for whoever takes over.
I'm not too sure what you meant with your last paragraph? I've not understood it. Apologies.
Are you clued up on whether MLB is “a level playing field“?
Yes, and you can see the washing in progress when (some - not all) the fan base starts turning from mocking City, PSG, actively shouting against horrific human rights practices etc, to just accepting the same fate for us.
My last paragraph was to underline the point that you can still support the club, no matter who owns it. Just as we do today with the glazers.
Marks is the man, and I always read his 'memos' you refer to. I doubt they play with something like United, but we can hope it goes something this way instead of oil money, in my humble opinion.
But he did leave without compensation. This is a known fact.The numbers are right from the official income statement of Manchester United PLC.
So what you're saying is basically that the official financial report is incorrect without delivering any arguments or evidence.
I don't say that what you're saying has to be wrong. But without any reliable factual basis or at least a comprehensible argumentation to back your opinion the discussion is feeling really tiresome. I'm sorry.
And I don't think that CR37 is leaving without any claims for compensation. So IMO you can't just subtract the CR37 salary from the expenses and believe that this is a reliable calculation.
Absolutely, good post. Nobody is rocking up to our Mayfair office with a suitcase full of used bank notes.
Likewise, a stadium or training ground rebuild would likely be financed, and would be partially funded by sponsorships, advertising and naming rights sales. This notion that somebody will fork out the whole cost of buying and developing the club from their own pocket is blatantly incorrect.
They only have interest in human rights violators
I’m completely clueless on such matters but surely if the glazers bought the club with debt forced on the club then they will have to pay that debt back out of any profit from the sale?
Nope it'll just transfer over as its company debt, not in the glazers name.
They'll just have to take that into consideration when agreeing a price
Right thanks. I understand the leeches nickname now.
Very true, well put.
Thanks, your points make more sense when you put it this way.
What I don’t like at all however is the view point that we should feel “guilt”, be ‘ashamed’, if you get what I mean? The outside world going ‘well, I recon we can live with those hooligans still supporting their club, but they should at least be ashamed for it’.
Feck that. That is not what SAF thought us. We have good values. Pitch at the Caf how we should get a player who made a racist remark 14 years ago, and you will hear about it. The right statement, the biggest statement, we can make is to not change.
I get the jist it's the younger generation who want oil state buyers so we get all the shiny new players, training ground and stadium in one fell swoop, they're very mistaken as that won't happen all st once.
I also said to a few yesterday that we don't need an oil state to buy us to make us competitive, just the right people in the right positions, an owner who doesn't take money out of the club and backs the manager. If we form a team capable of challenging for a prolonged period (like Liverpool) then there's no need to be oil backed.
The infrastructure is going to be upgraded no matter who purchases us but it won't be done overnight like most want it to be.
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