Club Sale | It’s done!

[Castia]

Has something stopped Qatar to come up with a creative bid to take over control? Would anything stop him from still investing in the club if he picked a similar structure as Ratcliffe, to have full ownership over a couple years but full control now?

Nothing but his own lack of business sense or their actual desire has stopped it. The Glazers cared about 1 thing, and it's the thing that Qatar supposedly has unlimited amounts of. Them failing to get the club is just a complete failure on their part and shows nothing but good business sense from Ratcliffe. Should we feel bad for Qatar here? You should be pissed at Qatar if you wanted them because they've clearly dropped the ball.

Yes because its a completely different bid that will pay off the debts and build a stadium....why would he do all that with a 50% stake? Invest billions into making United compete again for the Glazers to walk away with even more money? oh and ill pay all your debts off whilst I'm at it?

Notice we know nothing about Jim's plan? because ill tell you for certain he isn't paying off the debt and investing into the facilities with just a 50% stake that will be certain.

 

[AlPistacho]

Is this new Qatari bid just going to delay things even further now or can we expect some form of news soon as to who the preferred bidder is?

A month or two ago, I would have been intrigued with this new bid but now not really bothered if it succeeds or not as just want this never ending circus to end. Don’t really care if it’s Qatar or INEOS that wins, just as long as we get this thing over and down with.

Based on his previous responses to improved bids from Jassim. Ratcliffe response is likely to offer Glazers more power, perhaps voting rights or no need to leave after 2-3 years.

 

[MarkoDolohov]

It seems like there are only two pictures of Jassim.
The one above and the other where he stands besides his Squidward-looking younger family member wearing United shirt.
Maybe he is an AI generated person and doesn't actually exist?

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Here are some other photos for what its worth. Just seems to be a pretty private individual.

Qatar's 5th bid is still lower than Ineos' 3rd one? Who's "not serious" and "broke" now?

Qatar have come out of this looking pretty shoddy tbh

 

[Rightnr]

What’s to say we don’t continue on the same trajectory under Jassim? He’s struggling to put together a bid that would even be accepted, not the greatest start to ownership now is it?

Let me begin by saying this is a flawed comparison but I'll make it just because I think it's not that unreasonable.

The Qatar bid stands for a new start. No debt, promised investment and overall expressed ambition for the club to get back to past glories. It's not a guaranteed success, nothing in life is. But we've tried the Glazers models and in my opinion this is more of the same (I mean they're staying on FFS).

The Jassim bid for me is basically the EtH versus Poch. EtH was a bit of unknown quantity but there was clearly intent there to go and get success, even if it wasn't proven in a bigger club like United.

Ratcliffe's bid is more of a Poch. Proven failure in the past with other clubs (albeit smaller ones in smaller leagues) where you're hoping against hope things will turn around. They didn't for Mourinho, they didn't for LvG and we were right to go for the supposedly untested EtH because he promised a new direction.

I might be wrong but it's very clear to me it'll be more of the same with Mr 'The Glazers are nice people', so I opt to state my opinion now clealry, so that later on I refer to it and not take nonsense of the captain Hindsight variety.

 

[Cassidy]

Me: I’ve already been offered 300k for my house, would you like to make a counter offer?

Jassim - yes I will offer you the princely sum of £270k and will invest £50k in it once I’ve bought it!

Me: erm no

Jassim - OK, how about £280k and will invest £50k in it afterwards

Me: erm, still no

Jassim - final offer £290k but I need an answer by this Friday (P.S. the £50k still stands!)

Me:

If the other bidder has not offered 300k then thats obviously smart negotiating.

 

[Berbaclass]

The base price of the shares INEOS is offering to buy. Basically the glazers won’t get less than what INEOS values the club, but they could get more.


who said anything about double?

We don't know any details about the prospective terms

 

[jm99]

I can't tell if people posting the AI generated stuff are serious or joking. The guy was on the board of Credit Suisse til 2017 and is chairman of the Qatari Bank, was it all a ploy to create an AI generated guy years before the technology existed and credit suisse are in on it?

 

[bosnian_red]

Is INEOS’ bid actually better than Jassim’s? I actually agree with what the tweet from the Sweedish Ramble page said, from a Net Present Value standpoint Jassim’s offer clesrly looks likes the better one.

Swedish ramble added posts after where the rumored numbers were actually less. There are multiple factors. If it is close, then yes, 100% up front is better. It is not clear that the offers are similar of if they are still a bit off. It also depends on if Glazers are optimistic about future value. It is also dependent on if the Glazers got annoyed/stopped taking Qatar seriously after Qatar failed to do a serious bid after the 3 rounds, and gave 2 offers after they stopped accepting offers. That's just shit business.

 

[gajender]

Are you saying that SJR is buying Manchester United to fill his pockets? The man that owns a petrochemical company that absolutely dwarfs Manchester United in revenue, profits, the works... A club which is currently running on empty is going to make SJR a profit off its name?

I doubt, very much.

Both the Bidders making offers for United would definitely want to make money off United in the Long run , Ways to make money might be different but end game for both would be the same .

 

[Crackers]

That's not accurate.

Of course it's not, United isn't worth 300k.

 

[Rightnr]

Another thing most people with zero financial background would fail to get about the all-cash deal is time value of money.

If the Glazers get a chunk of their money 3/5 years into the future (and that's not guaranteed because it sounds like an option), then discounting back to the present day would basically put the bids on equal footing.

It is only if you believe that United's value would materially rise over the next 3/5/10 years that you would take this risk. But why would it, apart from a Super League or change in TV rights, both of which look unlikely?

 

[Nick7]

We don't know any details about the prospective terms

They’re literally call and put options. We know how call/put options work.

 

[Speedicut75]

With SJR reportedly having multiple offers on the table. Which one do we think is likely to be the one accepted (should he win)?

• Full 69% of Glazers share
• 50.1% with Joel and Avram holding approx 18% between them
• 50.1% with all 6 Glazers holding approx 18% between them

Just had a thought: would the 51% option mean that the Glazers get a seat on the board? Or is that at the discretion of Brexit Jim?

 

[El-Manos]

From a glazer’s point of view, SJR bid is better .
From a Manchester United’s point of view - Jassim is the clear winner.

It’s obvious who’s going to win this, those bastards don’t care about the club.

 

[Nick7]

Another thing most people with zero financial background would fail to get about the all-cash deal is time value of money.

If the Glazers get a chunk of their money 3/5 years into the future (and that's not guaranteed because it sounds like an option), then discounting back to the present day would basically put the bids on equal footing.

It is only if you believe that United's value would materially rise over the next 3/5/10 years that you would take this risk. But why would it, apart from a Super League or change in TV rights, both of which look unlikely?

It’s been said numerous times that the Glazers do believe the value will rise in the near to medium future. So what’s your point?

 

[Berbaclass]

They’re literally call and put options. We know how call/put options work.

Which we don't know the specifics of...

 

[Nick7]

Which we don't know the specifics of...

This is like talking to a fecking wall. Go look up what call and put options are.

 

[Berbaclass]

This is like talking to a fecking wall. Go look up what call and put options are.

I know

 

[MUFC OK]

Another thing most people with zero financial background would fail to get about the all-cash deal is time value of money.

If the Glazers get a chunk of their money 3/5 years into the future (and that's not guaranteed because it sounds like an option), then discounting back to the present day would basically put the bids on equal footing.

It is only if you believe that United's value would materially rise over the next 3/5/10 years that you would take this risk. But why would it, apart from a Super League or change in TV rights, both of which look unlikely?

The Tv rights deal will be renewed in 2025 and the next one will likely absolutely dwarf the next one.

Likes of Amazon, Apple etc are tipped to have a bidding war which will blow sky out of the water.

 

[Blood Mage]

The way I see it Joel and Avram are desperate to remain at the club in some capacity, possibly for egotistical reasons, and that's why Ratcliffe will win the bid sadly.

 

[L1nk]

Just had a thought: would the 51% option mean that the Glazers get a seat on the board? Or is that at the discretion of Brexit Jim?

As far as we know the shares will be purely monetary based and not involve any decision making or board duty from the Glazers, until we get an official confirmation though we can't say 100%. Regardless they won't have any control over Ratcliffe.

 

[DevilsOwn]

The 1b is investment. Stadium, players etc. Not debt.

Ahh, so thats what, approx $5.8Bn for the shares + $650Mn of long term debt?

Me: I’ve already been offered 300k for my house, would you like to make a counter offer?

Jassim - yes I will offer you the princely sum of £270k and will invest £50k in it once I’ve bought it!

Me: erm no

Jassim - OK, how about £280k and will invest £50k in it afterwards

Me: erm, still no

Jassim - final offer £290k but I need an answer by this Friday (P.S. the £50k still stands!)

Me:

The only difference in this case being, you want to sell the house and the only Other bidder says:
I will give you 300k, but 200k now and 100k in 2-3-4 years!

 

[MTF]

Another thing most people with zero financial background would fail to get about the all-cash deal is time value of money.

If the Glazers get a chunk of their money 3/5 years into the future (and that's not guaranteed because it sounds like an option), then discounting back to the present day would basically put the bids on equal footing.

It is only if you believe that United's value would materially rise over the next 3/5/10 years that you would take this risk. But why would it, apart from a Super League or change in TV rights, both of which look unlikely?

Yes, but it was reported that the future purchases of their shares would be via options contracts, right? So they can give Ineos a Call option but at a higher price than the deal they close today. So for example you could have a call option at 30% higher than their deal price today, and that offsets the time-value of money.

That was my understanding from FT reporting I think it was. And the Glazers could have Put options that would allow them to force SJR to buy them out in the future, but presumably at a similar price to the deal.

Also, the Glazers that don't want to sell definitely do think the value of the club will still rise above market returns in the next few years. Unless it is all a hardball play to extract maximum value now.

 

[bosnian_red]

Yes because its a completely different bid that will pay off the debts and build a stadium....why would he do all that with a 50% stake? Invest billions into making United compete again for the Glazers to walk away with even more money? oh and ill pay all your debts off whilst I'm at it?

Notice we know nothing about Jim's plan? because ill tell you for certain he isn't paying off the debt and investing into the facilities with just a 50% stake that will be certain.

It's 51% with a plan to take full ownership in 1-3 years. Are you deliberately ignoring that? Jassim could've done the same. He takes full control. He still agrees a future full ownership scenario.

There is nothing stopping him from doing the same deal, there is nothing stopping him from investing into the club that he would have full control of. It is 100% wrong to state anything different. Be annoyed at Qatar for failing to follow up on their fake ass promises.

If he wants to take over the club, you do what you can to get control. Why is he scared to have a multi stage takeover? Nothing about human rights issues or the fear of it falling through if he doesn't get in asap?

 

[Rightnr]

It’s been said numerous times that the Glazers do believe the value will rise in the near to medium future. So what’s your point?

Hm, not so sure that's really what they believe but what they've briefed.

Do they think the value of the club would rise by more than 1.05^x years or 16% in 3 years, 27% in 5 or 62% in 10 years (and this is using base rates for discounting)?

And would it be more than other comparable assets? If we believe everything that's been put to the press, why is Ratcliffe not the face of United yet?

 

[simmee]

This is like talking to a fecking wall. Go look up what call and put options are.

What's the strike price for the put and call options?

 

[Speedicut75]

As far as we know the shares will be purely monetary based and not involve any decision making or board duty from the Glazers, until we get an official confirmation though we can't say 100%. Regardless they won't have any control over Ratcliffe.

Thanks for the info.
I'm relieved but with all this "horse trading" Brexit Jim is doing, I hope he's smart enough, even when considering the optics of the thing, to keep the gruesome twosome at arms length.

 

[Rightnr]

The Tv rights deal will be renewed in 2025 and the next one will likely absolutely dwarf the next one.

Likes of Amazon, Apple etc are tipped to have a bidding war which will blow sky out of the water.

Why would it? This has been briefed a couple of times previously and domestic rights have stagnated for the last couple of auctions.

Amazon have also pulled out of the tennis and generally tech has been streamlining as of late. Not sure TV rights growth is as lucrative as it was previously. What might be a game changer is if clubs get the rights to stream themselves or the PL starts its own streaming platform.

 

[Nick7]

What's the strike price for the put and call options?

No idea I’m not involved in the negotiations. Very slim chance the call option is less than the base price INEOS are offering for the 51%. If it was, that bid would be thrown out.

 

[Berbaclass]

No idea I’m not involved in the negotiations. Very slim chance the call option is less than the base price INEOS are offering for the 51%. If it was, that bid would be thrown out.

 

[SaboTaj]

Swedish ramble added posts after where the rumored numbers were actually less. There are multiple factors. If it is close, then yes, 100% up front is better. It is not clear that the offers are similar of if they are still a bit off. It also depends on if Glazers are optimistic about future value. It is also dependent on if the Glazers got annoyed/stopped taking Qatar seriously after Qatar failed to do a serious bid after the 3 rounds, and gave 2 offers after they stopped accepting offers. That's just shit business.

With the sums of money they’re talking about, the presumed cost of capital will have to be very low for Jassim’s offer to not be better than Ineos’ at present value.

 

[Marcelinho87]

From a glazer’s point of view, SJR bid is better .
From a Manchester United’s point of view - Jassim is the clear winner.

It’s obvious who’s going to win this, those bastards don’t care about the club.

Neither is obvious, SJ could just be talking shit to appease the fans... Nobody knows the outcomes just fanciful thoughts and peddled as facts.

 

[Nick7]

Go on then. Have you looked up what call and put options are?

 

[glasgow 21]

Another flag. Why would they be communicating via intermediaries?

the only flag you need to worry about is the white one when we are fighting for europa league place when oil money has been pumped in elsewhere…….. But, but , but SJR got the master bedroom with ensuite while what's left of Glazers get bedroom NO. 2 next to the loo.

 

[Catt]

Granted I havent followed this closely as you guys, but am I the only one who is of the opinion Jassim's bid is not state backed? It's seeming to me he alone is not very wealthy compared to other football club owners and this is why Ratcliffe's bid hasnt simply been blown away.

I wouldn't give a feck about this Jassim buying another club tbh, there is no way a takeover by him would lead to having the funds clubs like PSG, City etc have. IMO of course

Tend to agree. Don't think Jassim is rich enough. This Qatar business seems a bit sus tbh.

 

[Water Melon]

Jassim is calling the Glazer's bluff. Now even Ineos know that their competitor is ready to quit. Best of luck to the leeches dealing with Ratcliffe who knows that he has no competition in front of him.

 

[Berbaclass]

Go on then. Have you looked up what call and put options are?

Have you?

 

[Nick7]

Have you?

So you haven’t. Good to know. Have a good day.

 

[VP89]

So you haven’t. Good to know. Have a good day.

You too my friend

 

[Reapersoul20]

Qatar needs to bid 10 billion and just blow SJR and his evil pro-Brexit machine out of the water. How do we contact Jassim to let him know he needs to do this? Does anyone have his email? Will I ask chatGPT? I heard SJR is only going to sign British players, and only ones who vote tory :'(