'Jim' is not buying United. Not even 25% of it.
Ineos is, and it is borrowing money to do it.
Given they need a loan to buy 25%, how do they buy the entire club in 3 years.
Or spend 2 billion on infrastructure?
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
- Start date
- Status
Ineos is, and it is borrowing money to do it.
Given they need a loan to buy 25%, how do they buy the entire club in 3 years.
Or spend 2 billion on infrastructure?
BEN JACOBS.
I remember reading his tweet before the video aired. You can dig out all correspondence and video appearances yourself, but United mupeteers don't know shit.
Also without sounding condescending, a 14 year old with half a business brain could tell you 25% stakes aren't thrown in for shits and giggles without a route to full ownership. Most business acquisitions are done this way. Mupeteers nor Ben Jacob's said anything ground breaking.
Also. 25% isn't the random figure some think it is.
It puts Ratcliffe in a strong position from the start. Able to block special resolutios, challenge the the variation of share classes in court and is also just below the threshold for mandatory takeovers.
With United, 25% of the club would be around 40% of the voting rights, so again, hardly a position of weakness.
It puts Ratcliffe in a strong position from the start. Able to block special resolutios, challenge the the variation of share classes in court and is also just below the threshold for mandatory takeovers.
With United, 25% of the club would be around 40% of the voting rights, so again, hardly a position of weakness.
There's the Athletic article and there's been several tweets in this thread about it. There's also a video from someone who claims to have a source inside Ineos but that could be unreliable, I'm n
Yeah I know it's Ben Jacob's. I went through his Twitter and couldn't find anything. I'm asking you to provide me the tweet.
You can't find it then.
Have you seen the board structure of INEOS? it's basically Jim and his two mates
Let's assume for a second that he can afford it (although I seriously doubt it, most of his worth is tied up in his ownership of INEOS) - as you said he wasn't willing to spend enough to match the Glazers valuation, so what's going to change? If their valuation goes down, then it's almost certainly terrible news for the club, as something would have to have gone wrong. If it doesn't go down then it's the same amount he wasn't willing to pay before, what could change to make him willing this time around?
INEOS don't need a loan to do anything, they just make more money having £1.5bn in active assets than it costs them to borrow £1.5m.
We’ll see mate. I really hope you are right. At the moment I’m feeling pretty dejected at the thought of the Glazers staying around in any Capacity.
It would just be nice to hear what the hell the plan Jim has for the club, because so far there's very little to be hopeful about.
You misunderstand.Have you seen the board structure of INEOS? it's basically Jim and his two mates
Ineos is a legal entity, and it is Ineos buying the club.
Jim Ratcliffe is as likely to dip into his personal wealth as the glazers. So it is completely irrelevant.
Our owners will be either the glazers or Ineos. Ineos cannot buy the club and pay for infrsatsructure over th enext few years. And they need a billion just to clear our debts.
Glad we are not being sold to Qatar, because that would have been the end of the road for me.
But reading these early reports, it seems like this was the next worst outcome that could have happened. Just off the top of my head, we don't know the following:
- what sporting control INEOS would have with only a 25% financial stake,
- what the timeline is for a full takeover, and whether it is proposed or guaranteed
- what this means for infra investment, FFP, and transfer budget
- what this means for the current debt of the club
- the source of current and future capital for majority takeover, and whether that saddles the club with more debt
We'll have to wait and see what the answers are to assess whether this was good for the club, but knowing the Glazers, the answers won't be made available any time soon, or be something the fans would like.
I feel for ETH and some of our players, another manager and group of players who have been set up to fail.
But reading these early reports, it seems like this was the next worst outcome that could have happened. Just off the top of my head, we don't know the following:
- what sporting control INEOS would have with only a 25% financial stake,
- what the timeline is for a full takeover, and whether it is proposed or guaranteed
- what this means for infra investment, FFP, and transfer budget
- what this means for the current debt of the club
- the source of current and future capital for majority takeover, and whether that saddles the club with more debt
We'll have to wait and see what the answers are to assess whether this was good for the club, but knowing the Glazers, the answers won't be made available any time soon, or be something the fans would like.
I feel for ETH and some of our players, another manager and group of players who have been set up to fail.
Yeah I totally get it. I'm optimistic but ultimately we have to wait and see.
This is my worry. If he isn’t willing to pay now, why will he be willing in the future when the figure could potentially be even higher for a full buy out?
I may be missing some context in this conversation, but your final statement is a little crazy. Minority investment happens all the time, the idea that it's only a vehicle for full ownership just isn't true. I'm sure Ratcliffe wants a path to full ownership, but he can't afford it outright and so isn't in a particularly strong position to demand as such.
Sheikh Jassim reportedly put a 6th bid "double the market value" so around $7.2-7.4 billion which is around £6 billion. The Athletic reported they wanted £6.4 billion. We know the 2 that did not want to sell.
I was just wondering if David Beckham may have been aware that Jassim/92 Foundation were going to prepare another offer.
It did feel that something was going to come fruition after bloomberg's report.
I wanted a clean break but I hope this offer is what it says, a road to kicking all them out.
Jim won't announce his plans after midnight on the weekend, so we might as well all take a break from this topic for the time being.
What happened now is the club informed Jassim that they intend to go with Jim, allowing Jassim to graciously withdraw his offer instead of technically losing out. Then the bid from Jim needs to be ratified in a board meeting before Jim can even consider speaking publicly about his plans for the club.
Even then I bet he will hold a lot of cards close to his chest, plans with Ineos towards Glazers that either can't be made public due to NDA's or doesn't make sense to make public before they are actioned on.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Ben Jacob's say the bid was high enough to get their foot in the door for full control down the line. The next day some mupeteers tit comes out and says Ratcliffe's bid has a route to full control.
The show says NOTHING of inside information. It's rehashed bullshit, and it makes tits out of people dumb enough to believe it.
Not can't. Just didn't think it was worth my time. You're lucky I gave two minutes, the shite of United mupeteers isn't worth that. Can't believe they actually fool people
Can someone explain to me one thing that I can’t wrap my head around, if Man Utd needs money to stay afloat and Ratcliff is buying shares, how is Man Utd benefiting if the money to buy the shares goes to individual glazer siblings for the 25%, how is the money going to help reduce the debt and rebuild infrastructure?
Ratcliff won’t invest anything until he is majority owner, so how is this helping the balance sheet of Man Utd?
Ratcliff won’t invest anything until he is majority owner, so how is this helping the balance sheet of Man Utd?
I don't think it's anything to do with willing, personally, and more that he simply can't afford it. If he could, he'd have bid enough. This is a vanity project for him, as we aren't a good business proposition - struggling under the weight of our debt, decades behind in terms of infrastructure, competitors with bottomless pits of cash and no desire or need to balance the books. I just struggle to see how any of that changes given these developments.
Minority investment happens all the time but acquirers looking for control often start with a minority state to get their foot through the door. That practise is very common.
Ratcliffe's minority stake could easily have been assumed as such by anyone with a remote understanding in finance.
It isn't. We're probably fecked for several more years. That is unless he has some great plan we don't yet know about. But I doubt it.
Not answered - sorted, and completely.
It’s a ‘yes or no’ situation.
We’ve just lost a real deal bidder that publicly pledged to completely and immediately clear the debt and sort the stadium.
Absolutely no less should be expected from Brexit Jim. Not one iota less is acceptable.
‘Will you clear the debt with immediate effect?’ - it’s yes or no.
‘Will the stadium be sorted immediately?’ - again, it’s simply yes or no.
Nothing less than that should be accepted by fans given what was offered to our club by Jassim.
Don’t let your standards be slowly lowered again.
Very difficult to get excited about a minority stake deal but if it brings any kind of change then I suppose it's better than nothing
Big thing for me is, where is the money going to come from for a stadium refurb ?
Fair enough. I won't reference that channel again unless they are proven correct about the timeline.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Ben Jacob's say the bid was high enough to get their foot in the door for full control down the line. The next day some mupeteers tit comes out and says Ratcliffe's bid has a route to full control.
The show says NOTHING of inside information. It's rehashed bullshit, and it makes tits out of people dumb enough to believe it.
Not can't. Just didn't think it was worth my time. You're lucky I gave two minutes, the shite of United mupeteers isn't worth that. Can't believe they actually fool people
Edit: to be fair they did kinda double down on what Jacob's seemed unwilling to confirm. Whether that's just them grifting or actually having some info remains to be seen.
Hardly inspiring, but it is what is is, so I wish our new overlords every success. They look suspiciously like the old ones, but maybe this time it'll be different
Spot on. Don't know what people are smoking. I don't really care about the Qataris, but this 25% shit achieves nothing. The debt remains and so do the Glazers. Horrible for the club.
Sorry to be rude about it. It just annoys me when they con people man!
Ineos is the company with a logo that looks like a distended butthole, yes?
The pro to INEOS owning a significant share is I think they’ll give much more of a shit than the Glazers. INEOS pin a lot of their global appeal and reach through sporting excellence (a la Red Bull) so they won’t tolerate being associated with some fecking circus team especially one that has such an intense limelight on it, unlike the Glazers who don’t give a feck as long as dividends are rolling in.
This will be their jewel in the crown for their sporting portfolio so I hope they‘ve got an arrangement to have significant decision making in the day to day running of the on-pitch stuff.
They better come out with statements of their intentions, especially since the Glazers have put the fans on the ‘pay no mind’ list for almost two decades.
This will be their jewel in the crown for their sporting portfolio so I hope they‘ve got an arrangement to have significant decision making in the day to day running of the on-pitch stuff.
They better come out with statements of their intentions, especially since the Glazers have put the fans on the ‘pay no mind’ list for almost two decades.
What plan does he have? Who cares he made a deal with the Glazers which save them to keep the club.
As far as I'm concerned Jim is a complete enemy of this club. He just gave the Glazers s lifeline.
Feck the glazers and feck a thousand times Jim Radcliffe.
Well this would be a disappointing outcome. Hope there is no truth to it. Ridiculous even
No worries! Didn't think you were rude.
It's clear what Ratcliffe's aim is, yes, but what isn't clear is how this smaller investment leads to him buying us out. He can't afford to buy the Glazers out at their current valuation, hence this minority stake. This means that the Glazers' valuation would need to decrease. The latter would only happen if the club is struggling (worse than we have been) on the sporting or commercial side, which isn't good news. It's also actively a deterrent against Ratcliffe investing directly in the club, as that'll increase our value and therefore make his takeover more difficult.
Don't get me wrong, given that he's the only option I'd love for this to have a direct path to him ridding us of the Glazers altogether, I just can't see how it would happen given how if he could afford to buy them out he would be doing so.
That’s my worry too mate. I was pro Qatar because they were going to remove all of our debt. A debt free Manchester United can financially compete with any club on earth.
Factor in a state of the art stadium and training ground and we would have been financially secure without the need for sugar daddy cash injections.
I don’t see anything changing under Ineos and that’s assuming they even obtain 100% of the club. Personally I don’t believe they will.
It’s a fecking shit show. I’d personally rather see the whole thing fall through and in a year or two a buyer come forward that can genuinely afford the club.
feck the Glazers.
If Jim and the Glazers have a difference in opinion on what the club is actually worth then a deal like this makes sense. (The following is mainly my thinking.)
The club absolutely needs investment now, so him buying a sizable minority share, with provisions of sporting control, and I'm certain that any further possible investment will have provisions that Ineos investment increases the value of the club, thus that should be offset in the final purchase price later. Or some sort of arrangement like that.
But back to the difference in opinion of total value. Glazers believe the club will be worth more than it currently is in 2-3 years if certain things pan out (some sort of super champions league with saudi teams, some catalyst that makes the sport much more popular in the US or whatever). They don't want to sell it all now cause they think they're right around the corner from a bigger payday.
Jim doesn't agree with them that the value will increase as much as they think, so he isn't willing to pay their premium price now. But he does want to own the club, and is willing to buy a stake that will let him get control of what matters to him, control of sporting decisions and a vehicle for further control through investments. Then in a few years they'll see who is right, if Glazers are right then Ineos will need to pay more than planned to own everything. If Jim is right then they pay closer to the valuation he thought it would be.
But ultimately the club is better off due to some investment likely happening now. It's a happy middle of the road solution where hopefully the short term problems are taken care of, while long term estimations can play out.
Microsoft just bought Activision with a plan to control market but here buying 25% is a "good first step"
Feel bad for anyone emotionally invested in this whole "takeover". Glazers dont want to sell, its been clear for months.
Now we watch Jassim buy another club to rock it in our faces.
Feel bad for anyone emotionally invested in this whole "takeover". Glazers dont want to sell, its been clear for months.
Now we watch Jassim buy another club to rock it in our faces.
What investment though? Surely that entire 25% stake will go straight into the Glazers pockets?
To me this just means more years of uncertainty for Utd fans. More years of owners that can't compete in the new reality the is the Premier League today.
Don’t want a “road” to kicking them out, I’ll be in my fecking box by the time they’re gone at this rate. We have another decade of this shit ahead of us. Jim is taking us all for fools.
- Status