If you get to 30 deaths a day (which is still tragic of course) then allow people to attend large events like football then it will quickly shoot up again to current numbers, surely?
Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th
- Thread starter Tarrou
- Start date
I'm a healthcare professional from Hong Kong and it seems to me many Western countries and media try to play the threat of COVID-19 down deliberately. I have recently seen multiple nonsense articles like this (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/...t-from-the-spanish-flu-of-1918-heres-how.html). It's understandable that they don't want to create panic (the last thing we want really), but it's also unwise to underestimate the virus and give people false hope that things are getting better and things are returning normal soon.
In Hong Kong, we suffered a lot from SARS in 2003 and we learnt pretty much from that experience. This time, we have become hypervigilant from day 1. We only have a death toll of 4 but we stay at full alert and we never call it a great news. Even we only get a dozen cases (only few are local) a day, we all wear surgical masks in public areas, some even wear protective glasses.
Theoretically, the spread of the virus is not going to slow down until at least 50-60% of the population have immunity. Immunity is acquired either by infection or vaccination, either way I don't see it happen any soon. Boris Johnson's herd immunity plan may be the quickest way to solve the crisis but it would create plenty of ethical issues and burdens to the healthcare system. I understand people want their life and entertainment back but let's face it, it's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.
In Hong Kong, we suffered a lot from SARS in 2003 and we learnt pretty much from that experience. This time, we have become hypervigilant from day 1. We only have a death toll of 4 but we stay at full alert and we never call it a great news. Even we only get a dozen cases (only few are local) a day, we all wear surgical masks in public areas, some even wear protective glasses.
Theoretically, the spread of the virus is not going to slow down until at least 50-60% of the population have immunity. Immunity is acquired either by infection or vaccination, either way I don't see it happen any soon. Boris Johnson's herd immunity plan may be the quickest way to solve the crisis but it would create plenty of ethical issues and burdens to the healthcare system. I understand people want their life and entertainment back but let's face it, it's not gonna happen in the foreseeable future.
You're making it sound like doomsday for the "null and void" situation.I agree the "null and void" phrase sounds a little eerie and undermines the enormous effort of everyone involved in the season thus far. The word "curtailed" or "ended abruptly" or something similar should be used instead. Now, on to the main point:
Why do you argue prize money will not be paid out at all? That is a ridiculous statement. Why would season tickets have to be refunded in full? What is the basis of that assumption? Almost 75% of the season has already been played out. The broadcasters have already recouped about 75% (of course, this is not as straightforward as linear arithmetic, but anyway) of the total revenue from this season. Why will they be entitled for a full refund from the Premier League? Clubs should also refund season ticket money only proportionate to the number of games remaining (Cashley and Levy may refuse to do so, but that is another story.) Why would anyone be entitled for a full refund?
Yes, in an ideal situation everyone wants the season to be completed, but when you cannot do that in exceptional circumstances, the Premier League, like any other large business enterprise, has to choose the option that provides the best long-term financial outlook. The upcoming 2020/2021 season is much more lucrative than the current one and the Premier League has to ensure the new season completes without disruptions. Nobody really knows about the second wave of SARS-CoV-2, so let us not start making assumptions about its impact on the new season.
Mathematically speaking, no team has won the league, no team has been relegated and no European places have been decided. So, terminate the season, void the season's current league standings, distribute TV money equally (see below) among teams (yes, the big teams won't like it), and start the new season afresh. I don't think there will be a lot of transfer activity, so the core of most teams will remain the same next season.
(p.s. TV money is divided among teams based on several factors like merit money, facility fees, domestic TV revenue and central commercialisation. By equal distribution, I only mean the part attributed to merit - i.e., league standings).
There may be lawsuits from teams in the lower tiers who were denied promotion, but they pale in comparison to the storm of lawsuits that will follow if you relegate the bottom three clubs based on current standings, or allocate European spots based on current standings. That is unthinkable.
There is not a single solution that will please everyone - the idea is to find one with least legal, social (including public health) and economic ramifications. Terminating this season and steadfastly getting on with the next, whenever it is safe to do so, is the best option among all bad ones.
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Lots of reports saying Bundesliga 1 and 2 are restarting on 9 May. Will be officially announced next week. Some teams training in groups of eight now.
We'll see if it's possible, my guess is the despite the planning covid-19 won't play along. They'll need to continually test all the players and everyone else involved in putting the games on, if players, whole squads or the officials go down with it, what will they do then?
Don't see how they can avoid that if the players have contact with their families or anyone else for that matter.
Why not? Germany appear to have a good control on the spread and are tremendous at testing, add to that football players are so far from risk being part of risk groups.
Zlatan's training with Hammarby currently. BCD shouldn't be an issue in Germany.
So they are going to take much needed health care resource away from the front line to ensure these football matches are covered?
I reckon this timeline would be the best and most realistic:
Now - Spring 2021: zero football, we don’t attempt to re-start even behind closed doors and wait for vaccine/treatment/whatever makes it reasonably safe. If teams are different than now due to transfers/contract situation, be it. It won’t really be much different from a mid season transfer window.
Late Spring/Early Summer 2021: play the remainder of games left this season to finish all competitions, hold Euro 2021 straight after to give people some joy.
Early Autumn 2021: transfer window
Winter 2021/22: new season starts and runs until November to allow window for Qatar World Cup at the end of year
So you basically cancel one full season of PL but finish this one. It will be too difficult to hold full season in 2020/21 anyway.
Now - Spring 2021: zero football, we don’t attempt to re-start even behind closed doors and wait for vaccine/treatment/whatever makes it reasonably safe. If teams are different than now due to transfers/contract situation, be it. It won’t really be much different from a mid season transfer window.
Late Spring/Early Summer 2021: play the remainder of games left this season to finish all competitions, hold Euro 2021 straight after to give people some joy.
Early Autumn 2021: transfer window
Winter 2021/22: new season starts and runs until November to allow window for Qatar World Cup at the end of year
So you basically cancel one full season of PL but finish this one. It will be too difficult to hold full season in 2020/21 anyway.
"Much needed"? Have you seen how well Germany are coping?
If it's start to kick off over there and the health service starts to look strained = no football.
Interesting nuance. We are certainly not in the same fortuitous situation in the UK, so don’t see a May restart for football as being feasible for the PL. We can’t even give our frontline NHS staff life preserving PPE yet we have people in this thread chuntering on about behind closed doors and null and void.
If this happened then I’d guess that 70% of teams outside the PL would have folded and probably 40-50% of PL clubs too. In short, finishing the current season would not be possible as there would be hardly any teams left to play the fixtures. Add to this the lower league players out of contract this summer having to seek alternative employment even at clubs which might be able to survive with furloughing.
so more likely IMO for your scenario would be current season voided, reduced cup with group stages tournament with whatever clubs are left in business and look to consolidate into 2-3 divisions in September 2021.
Apparently all teams will be provided with Corona rapid tests. Every player will be tested every three days and should a player become infected, only that player will be sent into quarantine, not the entire team as has been the case up to now.
How would playing football behind closed doors get the economy back going
There's absolutely no chance there will be 12-15months in limbo like that.
And it'd be mad to try and re-create the end of this season.
The smarter money is on continuing to monitor things, getting to June or so, realising this season is a write off and some sort of awkward points per game situation.
Yep, I get that. But they have to have emergency services and resource on hand at every match, in case an accident occurs. Seems inappropriate to have this in place for something as inconsequential as a football match when swathes of the population are being hospitalised and dying. The whole debate is just plain unseemly.
I can't help feeling that you're conflating different country's handling of the covid situation to reach a mean average. You're applying Italy or UK breaking points with Germany's medical situation for some reason.
Perhaps. For clarity, in the current UK climate, I cannot see how restarting PL football in May would be feasible or appropriate. Better?
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Private hospitals can help deal with the crisis in Germany.
The UK doesn't have many private hospitals because they are stuck with the outdate NHS model.
The UK can't have football till August at the earliest.
Yep, agree with you. I don't think anyone disagrees with the state the UK is in. We urgently need a cure (not vaccine, that comes many months later) and reliable serology test kits.
And this is the important point, the potential waste of resources that are needed elsewhere. From a personal perspective, I normally ride on the road 100 odd miles a week. Now, under our current rules I can still do that however, I don’t, I sit on my patio on a turbo trainer instead. I hate it but I do it, not because of fear of catching CV19 but because if I am out on the road and have an accident that requires an ambulance, A&E etc etc I am using resources up on something that I did that wasn’t essential, those same resources could be ensuring someone else gets their husband/wife/child/parent back home.
Torypool,Abu Dhabi FC, Glazers etc don't even pay the St John Ambulances for their services.
They can go feck themselves till the crisis is over IMO.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mi...-footballers-urged-support-first-21848005.amp
EXCLUSIVE St John Ambulance provides all of the Premier League's volunteer first aiders - but CEO Martin Houghton-Brown says the charity needs £6m on top of the government's charity bailout in order to bounce back
That really is fecking diabolical.
For prize money to be paid out the season has to be finished in some way. You cannot void the season and pay out prize money. It's laughable to even suggest this.
In the result of a void what you are essentially saying is that these matches didn't happen. Yes we all know that around 75% of the matches were played but by voiding the season you are removing this, opening the club's up to full refunds. This is exactly why the word curtailed is being used. Curtailed will mean finished in some way though.
The reality is, Fifa and UEFA have accepted that the season will need to be extended. The Premier League and Football league want to finish the season.
The only people talking about scrapping it now are bitter opposition fans and some ex players to fill column inches.
As I've said before, Liverpool's position is safe. They are 1/100 to finish in their current league position. They have dropped 5 points from 87 and were obviously going to win the league months ago. The League is really not about Liverpool now, it's the only position that is nailed on not to change. As United fans you can take comfort in the fact that this season has been overshadowed first by VAR and now by Covid19 is that not enough?
Will be interesting to see what happens. Germany is obviously in a better position dealing with this than most (all?) other European countries so I guess that's why they can plan for a restart whereas it's madness right now to put a timeline on the Premier League... or Serie A or La Liga, etc.
People will quickly get use to it, especially seeing as it's not forever. I reckon at some point potentially season ticket holders will be allowed back with the social distancing still intact.
I spent years watching Mount, Hudson Odoi, James, Fik and Tammy play in low/no crowds, another few months won't hurt.
Scotland are waiting for Dundee FC to make their vote to determine the finishing of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th divisions of Scottish Football. If they vote in favour then all leagues below the SPL are finished for the season. If that happens they are looking at ways they can restructure the leagues to make it fair in terms of promotion and demotion. Dundee United definitely deserve to go up to the SPL - they are 14 points ahead and have been relatively unchallenged. I like that Shankland fella too.
Shameful.
One thing that it coming out of this pandemic more than anything is some of the disgraceful lack of thought, care and funding for some of the most essential members of our society.
After the second world war lots of things changed for the better, hopefully we can use this pandemic as a chance to reset and to build a better society.
How come? What have I said that you disagree with?I really wonder how this guy is still here!
IMHO you've been irritating United supporters since your first posts and you received many replies on the same note as mine.
You are very wise in sprinkling your posts with pseudo-niceties towards United but then you always manage to insert the real point of your posts i.e. ''How great thou art oh mighty Liverpool'' -
just a small example:
As I've said before, Liverpool's position is safe. They are 1/100 to finish in their current league position. They have dropped 5 points from 87 and were obviously going to win the league months ago. The League is really not about Liverpool now, it's the only position that is nailed on not to change.
As United fans you can take comfort in the fact that this season has been overshadowed first by VAR and now by Covid19 is that not enough?
This is my opinion.
Yeah, this would effectively destroy a huge chunk of football.
Are they voting for current positions to be final?
With you on this. I've already made a habit of ignoring his posts. Passing of his clear bias as some great intellectual debate, which is more often than not, garbage. I take solace in the fact that he has limited amounts of posts a day.
It will be difficult for any govt to underfund the nhs after covid19. The fact that there was prep for such a scenario a few years ago and still they have made a mess of it tells you how much the Tories value the nhs.
From testing to PPE to ventilators it’s a shambles. 1000 people died yesterday and the headlines on the bbc website were about Johnson being able to go on short walks. The media are playing along and not holding the cnuts to account.
I hope you’re right about an opportunity to reset priorities after this but with the Tories in power it could be more of the same. Another decade of austerity won’t cut it now that people have seen how much govt can intervene.
It seems like you’re so engulfed by the idea that Liverpool “have to win the league, no matter what,” your reasoning is completely muddled to feed that narrative. I still don’t understand your logic of why broadcasters will be entitled full refund and not approximately 25% (or whatever similar settlement happens amicably between the two parties) if this season were abruptly terminated ! You can choose whatever word/phrase you want (null and void, curtail, terminate, whatever), it makes no substantial difference in the court of law. From a purely monetary perspective, I think it is silly to be entwined in such trivialties like what word or phrase was used to end this season.
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Well that isn't/wasn't my intention. I have been following this forum for years and started posting in March 2019. Many of my real life friends are United fans and I enjoy the rivalry between England's biggest clubs.
I have hardly mentioned Liverpool in my last few posts bar the most recent one. I was trying to make the point that when you look at the current table, Liverpool are the only team that are almost certain not to change position. All the other places are wide open and there is still all to play for.
I was also pointing out, as many of my United friends have, that this season won't be remembered for Liverpool winning it even if it does resume. Chances are it would be behind closed doors with no celebration in the city etc, I didn't think this was a bad thing to write on a United forum?
Very much a "read name..scroll past" jobI really wonder how this guy is still here!
While thousands of people are dying everyday because of virus I don’t think people will want to protect football at all cost. Lower league clubs will struggle with all the testing and monitoring required to make the games go through and they will be pretty screwed without gate income anyway.
Not at all. In a weird way this season has almost been an anticlimax because Liverpool have been so far ahead for the whole season, and haven't been threatened at any point.
The reason I suspect this, and clearly other club owners and boards do also is because in a null and void scenario you are essentially removing all record of the games that have been played. There is no such thing as a part void. you can have a part payment or part refund, but not a part void, it is all or nothing. You are opening clubs up to financial ruin. The first team I actually think of is Aston Villa who have spent a fortune on players based on a budget of a Premier League season being concluded.
I saw that the s*n newspaper chose to ignore the 900+ deaths in the uk and celebrate Johnson coming out of intensive care yesterday and describe it as a good friday! It's staggering! If Corbyn and Labour had overseen this mess, the newspapers and bbc would have been laying in to him day in day out and forced the public to turn against him and stop Labour ever getting in power again. The tories will have the perfect excuse for another decade of austerity now and will blame it on covid 19 and even bundle any damage caused by a no deal brexit as a result of covid 19.
Do they teach maths to Liverpool fans? You may be ‘nailed on’ to win the league...but you haven’t. If the season continues, ok. But they can feck off being given a sympathy trophy.