Could they void the PL due to the Coronavirus? | No | Resuming June 17th

Sandikan

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FA cups are the easiest, it's an easy void since there's majority of it aren't even played yet.

A final between A and B is an easy void, because statistically speaking it's a 50-50 chance
They could probably play a one off game. It's rounds and rounds of games that's the issue
 

DoubleDinhos

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Why would that happen? That Competition was played to its completion. Yes it is within this Season, but it got finished.

The other Competitions are ongoing and not complete.
Because the poster seemed to be arguing that different competitions run by different organisations are some how inextricably intertwined and you can't finish one without the other. Which makes no sense, if Europe can't be finished how does that have any relevancy to the league season being finished. And if you're arguing that than surely you're arguing that City's cup run isn't valid because the tournaments it occurs around haven't been completed.

Note: I do believe every competition should be completed, especially because Europe can be held back longer than the league can. However the idea that if one can't finish we should necessarily end all of them is a bit of stretch.
 

Sky1981

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Could have maybe chosen some different words given Amiens was a very famous WW1 battle with loads of deaths. Tad dramatic.

But I get his point. And likely the first of many as impossible to please everyone.
The court should just tell them to feck off to be fair, there's no entertaining these bullshits at times like this
 

Dr. StrangeHate

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So if no football happens and the league positions are decided by a PPG or current standings. Does that mean Liverpool title count goes to 19 or will it be 18+1* with *=season incomplete due to a pandemic?
 

romufc

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CL it makes more sense to finish this one over starting the next. Not like a lgue in term sof amount of games.
They mentioned points per game, it doesn't change the table much in CL and relegation. What i did notice is that Bournemouth Villa and Norwich going down but Watford and West Ham surviving on goal difference. That seems very harsh.

If the UK introduces the 14 day quarantine period for all arrivals, then it effectively rules out any English clubs taking part anyway.
France have the same thing so will be interesting to see how they overcome this.
 

njred

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What about Sheff United? Spurs? Arsenal? United were in for two trophies and a European spot too. Plenty of winners and plenty of losers really. This is why isn't going to fall apart as no one will agree on anything.
I agree there but the bottom line is they are going to keep those standings unless they play.
 

Sky1981

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Release of performance obligations
Parties may look to release themselves from their obligations if the contracts in question contain a force majeure clause or under the doctrine of frustration.

Force Majeure

A force majeure clause provides that both parties will be released from their obligations under a contract if an act, event or circumstance occurs which is beyond the reasonable control of the parties that makes performance of the contract impossible. However, where such clauses are broadly drafted or unclear, there is a risk of protracted disputes and costly litigation.

The Premier League has contracts with its member clubs to provide the opportunity for those clubs to play in the division. Whether and how the Premier League season resumes seems likely to be a source of consternation. Should the Premier League decide to cancel the remainder of the season due to Covid-19, the likes of Liverpool FC, who currently sit at the top of the table in their bid to win a first League trophy for over 30 years, would want to continue or be awarded the trophy based on their current position. But taking the status quo could also relegate clubs, with considerable financial consequences, without giving them the chance to turn their fortunes around. Stakes are also high for the teams looking for qualification for European competitions.

These clubs may argue that such cancellation or premature determination is a breach of the Premier League’s obligations to its member clubs to facilitate the 2019/20 season. If the contracts between the Premier League and its member clubs contain a force majeure clause, and the definition of force majeure includes references to “disease” or “pandemic”, this may cover Covid-19 as an unforeseen event releasing the Premier League from its obligations.

However, the threshold is high and extremely fact-specific. For example, the Royal Moroccan Football Federation was not able to appeal the fine imposed by the Africa Football Confederation for its refusal to host the Africa Cup of Nations tournament in 2015 due to the Ebola virus, since this was not considered a force majeure event. In this case, performance was considered to be only “difficult”, rather than “impossible”.

Frustration

If there isn’t a force majeure clause in a contract, the common law doctrine of frustration may release parties from their contractual obligations where there is a frustrating event. A frustrating event is one that is unforeseen, not caused by either party, and which renders performance of the contract impossible to fulfil.

Stakeholders may consider whether the Premier League deciding to suspend or cancel the rest of its season is a frustrating event due to the “purpose” of the contract between a member club and the relevant stakeholder no longer being possible. Similarly, clubs that pay rent to landlords or councils for use of their stadiums might argue that the cancellation of the Premier League (being the foundation of the contract) would release the club from its obligation to pay the remainder of the season’s rent.

However, parties should consider their legal position carefully before relying on such arguments. Generally, frustration will not apply where an event is contemplated by a force majeure clause and the doctrine typically applies in only extreme scenarios.
https://www.linklaters.com/en/insig...covid19-what-next-for-contractual-obligations

EDIT: UK Court of Law should be careful, allowing these kinds of suits to go through would meant precedent unprecedented. And unless they want the whole country start suing each other they, in my opinion should just categorized corona as "force majeure" and be done with it.

Arguing on how to restart is fine, but when clubs are looking for monetary gain because the FA decided to put safety first (for once) some common sense should prevail.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Liverpool are so lucky that the Fa cup and CL is turned void, but the league title will be theirs.
If they void competitions they have to void them all. Nobody will credit them with number 19 if there are rules changes or the season is drastically altered. I certainly won't. Its still 18 unless they win it properly for me.
 

Riz

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They mentioned points per game, it doesn't change the table much in CL and relegation. What i did notice is that Bournemouth Villa and Norwich going down but Watford and West Ham surviving on goal difference. That seems very harsh.



France have the same thing so will be interesting to see how they overcome this.
Another touted solution is ppg per home and away fixtures to compensate for the fact that not all teams have the same number of home/away games remaining. On that metric West Ham go down...
 

Sky1981

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Another touted solution is ppg per home and away fixtures to compensate for the fact that not all teams have the same number of home/away games remaining. On that metric West Ham go down...
Is it harsh? I think it's fair, it is based on theirs and their competitor's performance. Wasn't ideal but hardly not fair.

Just like PPG will correctly relegate norwich, and gets Liverpool their title. More right than wrong PPG
 

RobinLFC

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https://www.linklaters.com/en/insig...covid19-what-next-for-contractual-obligations

EDIT: UK Court of Law should be careful, allowing these kinds of suits to go through would meant precedent unprecedented. And unless they want the whole country start suing each other they, in my opinion should just categorized corona as "force majeure" and be done with it.

Arguing on how to restart is fine, but when clubs are looking for monetary gain because the FA decided to put safety first (for once) some common sense should prevail.
"Be careful to set dangerous precedents!"

...

"Just label it as force majeure and be done with it!"

Right.
 

Sky1981

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"Be careful to set dangerous precedents!"

...

"Just label it as force majeure and be done with it!"

Right.
You really don't think Covid 19 is a force majeure?

Seriously? So any joes and janes can just sue because they felt they lost something? Oh wait, maybe I can sue the government because I don't think it's fair I can't go out to walk my dog? Or can I now sue them because I lost my driving job because they won't allow me to get outside?
 

VeevaVee

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Just in case anyone needed reminding how up their own arse scousers are right now. It’s like they’re too thick to realise it’s comments like this that are the reason no one likes them, not because of ‘how good they are’.

 

Zexstream

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Lets face it, the League must be finished to appoint Liverpool the title, I can see football coming back for two matches, then they
Don't blame them.
I read somewhere that it is written into the league's rules about abandoning a season , thus they knew what the rules were so they can't really complain when those rules go against them.
 

Adisa

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Lets face it, the League must be finished to appoint Liverpool the title, I can see football coming back for two matches, then they

I read somewhere that it is written into the league's rules about abandoning a season , thus they knew what the rules were so they can't really complain when those rules go against them.
Yes, their FA have the power to unilaterally end the season but you have to feel for them.
 

RobinLFC

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You really don't think Covid 19 is a force majeure?

Seriously? So any joes and janes can just sue because they felt they lost something? Oh wait, maybe I can sue the government because I don't think it's fair I can't go out to walk my dog? Or can I now sue them because I lost my driving job because they won't allow me to get outside?
It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what's in the contract. Given the specific circumstances though, no, I don't think Covid-19 would meet the force majeure threshold. Merely rendering an obligation more difficult or expensive for one party certainly doesn't imply force majeure - would've been another story if the government had banned professional sports for an extended period of time though, but they didn't. It's still *possible* to let games take place.

You don't seem to have an understanding of contract law, and your examples are completely off the mark and pointless in that respect.
 

Sky1981

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It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what's in the contract. Given the specific circumstances though, no, I don't think Covid-19 would meet the force majeure threshold. Merely rendering an obligation more difficult or expensive for one party certainly doesn't imply force majeure - would've been another story if the government had banned professional sports for an extended period of time though, but they didn't. It's still *possible* to let games take place.

You don't seem to have an understanding of contract law, and your examples are completely off the mark and pointless in that respect.

Ok

As long as Liverpool wins the title? Your stance on this matter is absolutely biased, I understand coming from your perspective as 28 years in waiting Liverpool fan, I really do. But to claim this is not a force majeure and the show must go on is bonkers. And I'm the one who doesn't understand contract? Sure mate, sure. Let's just see how that lawsuit going eh? we can sit back and find out in the real world how it's going
 

romufc

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It doesn't matter what I think, it matters what's in the contract. Given the specific circumstances though, no, I don't think Covid-19 would meet the force majeure threshold. Merely rendering an obligation more difficult or expensive for one party certainly doesn't imply force majeure - would've been another story if the government had banned professional sports for an extended period of time though, but they didn't. It's still *possible* to let games take place.

You don't seem to have an understanding of contract law, and your examples are completely off the mark and pointless in that respect.
Well it depends what "extended period of time" means, because we are now 7 weeks into a lockdown and no sport returning for another 3 weeks. So a ban of 10 weeks when the season is meant to finish by the latest end of June as per the PL.

So in a 9 month PL schedule, 3 months suspension is = 1/3. It depends what contract law will classify as extended.

Finally, there will be some industries claiming this as Force Majeure i.e construction and airlines. If they are able to convince the courts it is force majeure why not in football?
 

RobinLFC

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Ok

As long as Liverpool wins the title? Your stance on this matter is absolutely biased, I understand coming from your perspective as 28 years in waiting Liverpool fan, I really do. But to claim this is not a force majeure and the show must go on is bonkers. And I'm the one who doesn't understand contract? Sure mate, sure. Let's just see how that lawsuit going eh? we can sit back and find out in the real world how it's going

So if you can't come to work because of Covid 19, I can sue you. Because you can come to work? can't you?
"My stance"? I'm talking for a contract law POV and not from a football POV, which I've abundantly made clear by now that I don't care anymore that it gets resumed or not since the title has already lost all meaning and glamour. I'm talking facts - if the PL cancels the season and doesn't have the legal backing from a force majeure clause, they're gonna get sued and they're gonna lose.

So yes let's just see how the lawsuit goes. Neither you nor I have any impact on how it will go, but if they have legal ground to sue, then they'll win, no matter how repulsive or immoral you think it is.
 

RobinLFC

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Well it depends what "extended period of time" means, because we are now 7 weeks into a lockdown and no sport returning for another 3 weeks. So a ban of 10 weeks when the season is meant to finish by the latest end of June as per the PL.

So in a 9 month PL schedule, 3 months suspension is = 1/3. It depends what contract law will classify as extended.

Finally, there will be some industries claiming this as Force Majeure i.e construction and airlines. If they are able to convince the courts it is force majeure why not in football?
Bolded part: it does not depend on what contract law classifies as "extended", it depends on the terms of the contract. If it's stated that a season should be finished by the end of June, every day without football will be a day that we get closer to a force majeure qualification.

Last sentence: force majeure takes into account the circumstances and will depend from industry to industry. In certain sectors it'll be a piece of cake to establish force majeure given there will be an absolute impossibility due to (travel or trading) restrictions by the government, yes. Easily. Doesn't mean that will transfer to football right away, it doesn't work like that.
 

Klopper76

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Sky1981

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Bolded part: it does not depend on what contract law classifies as "extended", it depends on the terms of the contract. If it's stated that a season should be finished by the end of June, every day without football will be a day that we get closer to a force majeure qualification.

Last sentence: force majeure takes into account the circumstances and will depend from industry to industry. In certain sectors it'll be a piece of cake to establish force majeure given there will be an absolute impossibility due to (travel or trading) restrictions by the government, yes. Easily. Doesn't mean that will transfer to football right away, it doesn't work like that.
Corona isn't a force Majeure, not furlough payment no chute payment, no financial plan because it's not impossible to continue working, just more difficult.

Right?
 

romufc

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Bolded part: it does not depend on what contract law classifies as "extended", it depends on the terms of the contract. If it's stated that a season should be finished by the end of June, every day without football will be a day that we get closer to a force majeure qualification.

Last sentence: force majeure takes into account the circumstances and will depend from industry to industry. In certain sectors it'll be a piece of cake to establish force majeure given there will be an absolute impossibility due to (travel or trading) restrictions by the government, yes. Easily. Doesn't mean that will transfer to football right away, it doesn't work like that.
I understand the first part and none of us know what the PL contracts look like, that will come out once the lawyers of teams start arguing the cases.

The second paragraph though is confusing because I would assume Force Majeure in contract law would have the same definition across all contracts. Surely it cannot be based on profession / industry.
 

RobinLFC

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Corona isn't a force Majeure, not furlough payment no chute payment, no financial plan because it's not impossible to continue working, just more difficult.

Right?
Not even gonna bother to actually respond to that. Like I said, you seem to have zero understanding about force majeure and contract law. That's fine, just don't come up with ridiculous examples.
 

Andycoleno9

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Another touted solution is ppg per home and away fixtures to compensate for the fact that not all teams have the same number of home/away games remaining. On that metric West Ham go down...
But that ppg is not fair either. One team played all top teams and have 0 points per game from that. Other team have most of those games to play meaning that they had easier schedule. Look at us and Chelsea. We have by far better schedule than them but we would lose 4th spot on ppg.

I know that big money is involved but finishing this season means:
1) Players health is in danger. Not just virus, they are out of shape now. Training at home is nothing. You need weeks of trainings on the pitch and with pro staff to get in shape.
2) Ruining next season
3) Ruining next Euro
4) Playing on empty stadiums

Canceling season and allowing players to prepare properly for next season is the best solution. But but but Liverpool, not fair etc.....
 

RobinLFC

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The second paragraph though is confusing because I would assume Force Majeure in contract law would have the same definition across all contracts. Surely it cannot be based on profession / industry.
Of course it can. The definition might be the same but the effect or application depends on the circumstances.

A trader in Lombardy who cannot fulfill his usual (short term) contractual obligations because of trade restrictions imposed by the government = little problem relying on force majeure most probably.
A trader in Lombardy who concluded a trade contract at the end of March with obligation to deliver goods within two weeks not fulfilling his obligation "because of Covid-19": won't be able to rely on force majeure most probably.
Me ordering something online and UPS not showing up "because of Covid-19": no chance at force majeure.

All contracts, might even be contracts with exactly the same force majeure clauses, but it will have a different application to each specific circumstance.
 

romufc

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Of course it can. The definition might be the same but the effect or application depends on the circumstances.

A trader in Lombardy who cannot fulfill his usual (short term) contractual obligations because of trade restrictions imposed by the government = little problem relying on force majeure most probably.
A trader in Lombardy who concluded a trade contract at the end of March with obligation to deliver goods within two weeks not fulfilling his obligation "because of Covid-19": won't be able to rely on force majeure most probably.
Me ordering something online and UPS not showing up "because of Covid-19": no chance at force majeure.

All contracts, might even be contracts with exactly the same force majeure clauses, but it will have a different application to each specific circumstance.
I know different legal systems will have a different meaning. The Force majeure clause in this country refers to a suspension of 30-90 days, which we are getting close to. Yes, I get that it depends on the PL contract what specific points are written to be part of force majeure i.e act of god, act of govt, pandemic etc...

We are only speculating.

However; I am sure within the contracts there will be clauses about players health and cramming games in 3 weeks might jeopardise that.

It is about to get all messy I think.
 

Finn MacCool

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