thepolice123
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Jesus Christ.......
Ninth. 5x league, 2x Supercup, 1x CL, 1x Super Cup.His fifth game of the season and he's already on 13 goals...mental.
Personally I wouldn't count Super Cup games any more than I would count the Charity Shield.Ninth. 5x league, 2x Supercup, 1x CL, 1x Super Cup.
Has 10 in 5 games in La Liga though.
Ah right, my bad. Thought it was too good to be true.Ninth. 5x league, 2x Supercup, 1x CL, 1x Super Cup.
Has 10 in 5 games in La Liga though.
It counts IMO, but that's another discussion I supposePersonally I wouldn't count Super Cup games any more than I would count the Charity Shield.
I'm with you on the first part, but penalties are another matter entirely. They're more misleading than they are informative if you're trying to glean information quickly from a goalscoring chart.There is nothing 'surprising about it. No body can score so many 'decisive' goals.
To stop this tediousness for once, I went through previous record holder's 14 goals in 2011/12 -
-3rd, 4th in 5-0 win
-1st(pen),2nd,4th goal in 4 -0 win
-2nd (penalty) in 2-3 win
-3rd in 3-1 win
-1,2,3,6,7 in 7-1 win
-1,2, (both pens ) in 3-1 win
So going by 'logic' of some posters on here, that's about 6 'meaningful' goals out of 14 which contained 4 penalties, another stat some people like to disparage.
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La Liga is arguably the best league in the world so it doesn't matter I guess. They have also been by far the top scorer in CL consistently anyways.I am a huge Ronaldo fan. But do he and his little buddy score so many goals because the Spanish league has more easier defences to play against than other leagues?. Would he and his little buddy score as many in the EPL or Germany?
If we pay him enough money, he'll come. I think it's as simple as that.This could have already been a done deal since last year, similar to his final year with us after the Moscow CL win.
We take Falcao on loan to keep him out of the reach of other clubs for year. In exchange Ronaldo joins us next year whilst we give Real a free run at Falcao.....conspiracyThis could have already been a done deal since last year, similar to his final year with us after the Moscow CL win.
If that was the case, why isnt every offensive player scoring at will? And why are raul ronaldo and messi CL top scorers?I am a huge Ronaldo fan. But do he and his little buddy score so many goals because the Spanish league has more easier defences to play against than other leagues?. Would he and his little buddy score as many in the EPL or Germany?
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You just have to look at how easy Di Maria is finding it in the Premier League to realise that it's not as great as it's cracked up to be. Messi and Ronaldo would have no problems here.I am a huge Ronaldo fan. But do he and his little buddy score so many goals because the Spanish league has more easier defences to play against than other leagues?. Would he and his little buddy score as many in the EPL or Germany?
For what it's worth, it was already made so public that it was going to happen he was bound to know about it so it was no doubt more of a measured reaction than anything.
You can almost see him not giving a feck
Not entirely true. Gerd Muller in 1972/73 played 6 games and scored a decisive goal in 4 of them (an equaliser in a draw v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win against Omonia, and both goals in a 2-1 win v Ajax). It is true that despite the incredible volume of Ronaldo's goals in the CL, the significance of most of those goals was surprisingly low. When you look at it that way it's entirely fair to argue that he wasn't even one of their two best/most important players throughout the tournament because his influence outside of the goals in the vast majority of those games wasn't particularly significant.There is nothing 'surprising about it. No body can score so many 'decisive' goals.
To stop this tediousness for once, I went through previous record holder's 14 goals in 2011/12 -
-3rd, 4th in 5-0 win
-1st(pen),2nd,4th goal in 4 -0 win
-2nd (penalty) in 2-3 win
-3rd in 3-1 win
-1,2,3,6,7 in 7-1 win
-1,2, (both pens ) in 3-1 win
So going by 'logic' of some posters on here, that's about 6 'meaningful' goals out of 14 which contained 4 penalties, another stat some people like to disparage.
Fair enough. My main issue is that this 'meaningful' goals stuff was not brought forward when others like Messi were creating or breaking such records. I went through Messi's best tally above and his was even more of a flat track bully performance.Not entirely true. Gerd Muller in 1972/73 played 6 games and scored a decisive goal in 4 of them (an equaliser in a draw v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win against Omonia, and both goals in a 2-1 win v Ajax). It is true that despite the incredible volume of Ronaldo's goals in the CL, the significance of most of those goals was surprisingly low. When you look at it that way it's entirely fair to argue that he wasn't even one of their two best/most important players throughout the tournament because his influence outside of the goals in the vast majority of those games wasn't particularly significant.
I don't follow Ronaldo/Messi debates very closely but I'd be very surprised if someone didn't try and discredit his record at some point. It's not like it's an argument that was created purely for Ronaldo. I've no idea whether Ronaldo was any more decisive than Messi in his best goalscoring season, but I do think both of their seasons show how the record is nothing more than a personal accolade and not necessarily evidence of an outstanding contribution to the team. Neither Messi nor Ronaldo were the most influential players in their teams in either season and it wasn't either player's best season. Ronaldo in 07/08 scored the winning goal against Sporting x2, Roma, Lyon and the opening goal in the CL final which at a glance seems to be more influential than Ronaldo's goals last year...and he managed that despite scoring less than half as many goals.Fair enough. My main issue is that this 'meaningful' goals stuff was not brought forward when others like Messi were creating or breaking such records. I went through Messi's best tally above and his was even more of a flat track bully performance.
Regardless Ronaldo was an important part of Real's CL campaign, despite his poor show in the final. He plays a very important role in Real's forward line. Their whole strategy against Bayern for example was partly based on the threat he providers on the counter
you werent outraged with the "messi has to make it on a cold monday night at britannia stadium" eitherFair enough. My main issue is that this 'meaningful' goals stuff was not brought forward when others like Messi were creating or breaking such records. I went through Messi's best tally above and his was even more of a flat track bully performance.
Regardless Ronaldo was an important part of Real's CL campaign, despite his poor show in the final. He plays a very important role in Real's forward line. Their whole strategy against Bayern for example was partly based on the threat he providers on the counter
Back then Galatasaray and Omonia were rubbish teams, so that example is hardly convincing. Alone by his presence on the pitch Ronaldo influences games for it opens spaces for his team mates and gives courage to them that they can beat any team. Take the game in which Ronaldo didn't take part - away to Dortmund. Real were rubbish and lucky to go further in the competition. Ronaldo is so much more than scoring "meaningful" goals. To measure Ronaldo's and Messi's influence only in terms of goals and assists isn't a great idea, IMO.Not entirely true. Gerd Muller in 1972/73 played 6 games and scored a decisive goal in 4 of them (an equaliser in a draw v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win v Galatasaray, the opening goal in a win against Omonia, and both goals in a 2-1 win v Ajax). It is true that despite the incredible volume of Ronaldo's goals in the CL, the significance of most of those goals was surprisingly low. When you look at it that way it's entirely fair to argue that he wasn't even one of their two best/most important players throughout the tournament because his influence outside of the goals in the vast majority of those games wasn't particularly significant.
i see. so ronaldo's 17 goals record isnt importantBack then Galatasaray and Omonia were rubbish teams, so that example is hardly convincing. Alone by his presence on the pitch Ronaldo influences games for it opens spaces for his team mates and gives courage to them that they can beat any team. Take the game in which Ronaldo didn't take part - away to Dortmund. Real were rubbish and lucky to go further in the competition. Ronaldo is so much more than scoring "meaningful" goals. To measure Ronaldo's and Messi's influence only in terms of goals and assists isn't a great idea, IMO.
I hope you can see indeed because I'm afraid you are blinded by your love for Messi. I didn't said that Ronaldo and Messi shouldn't be judged by their stats, I said that their contribution shouldn't be judged ONLY by their stats. There is some difference there for those who can seei see. so ronaldo's 17 goals record isnt important
then saying that of his 17 goals most of them werent decisive isn't important
heheWhich 14 year old fangirl hacked marcos' account this time?
Ronaldo>Messi
yeah, well, lets talk about the world cup ...I hope you can see indeed because I'm afraid you are blinded by your love for Messi. I didn't said that Ronaldo and Messi shouldn't be judged by their stats, I said that their contribution shouldn't be judged ONLY by their stats. There is some difference there for those who can see
Marcos, I'm trying to be pretty objective in my estimation. When Messi was in his peak I wrote several times that he is better than Ronaldo and even better than Maradona and Pele. IMO, he was the best ever. Right now, Ronaldo's better though. That's my opinion.yeah, well, lets talk about the world cup ...
Spot on.Football is much more complicated than the way @Marcosdeto presented it, just because many of those goals he scored weren't decisive, it doesn't mean Real Madrid would have won the CL without him. Killing off an opponent is also important and who is to say that without his goals, in certain matches, the opposing team wouldn't have overturned the result. Basically it's impossible to say what would have happened one way or the other, the only thing that is sure is that scoring 17 goals is a great record, he surpassed Messi statistically wise in one season. The rest are pointless conjectures.
Just busting your balls, man. I don't really care that much anyway, they're both fantastic players with different qualities. Whoever can't admit that are fooling themselves.hehe
they shove you up your face that he scored 17 goals, then you point out that most of his goals didnt make a difference, then that record is not important because ronaldo influences the game in a different way
funny
That wasn't the point anyone was trying to prove though (well, I can't speak for marcos ). I think I originally brought up the whole decisive goals thing (I made the same point for Messi too by the way) in this post, https://www.redcafe.net/threads/cristiano-ronaldo.348358/page-334#post-15763433, in response to some people stating that Cristiano "single-handedly" won RM La Decima... when there is ample evidence that it was NOT a one-man show. In fact comparing it statistically with the previous season it's clear that, even though he scored more goals than anyone ever in a single CL campaign, his contribution to the team remained about the same (scored/assisted 50% of RM's goals in 2012/13 v 51% in 2013/14), so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the rest of the team stepping up is what made a more significant difference than Cristiano's record-breaking 17 goals; ie. the difference between going out in the semi's as previously or playing the Final and winning -- which was reinforced emphatically in the Final itself by Ramos, Di María and Bale.Football is much more complicated than the way @Marcosdeto presented it, just because many of those goals he scored weren't decisive, it doesn't mean Real Madrid would have won the CL without him. Killing off an opponent is also important and who is to say that without his goals, in certain matches, the opposing team wouldn't have overturned the result. Basically it's impossible to say what would have happened one way or the other, the only thing that is sure is that scoring 17 goals is a great record, he surpassed Messi statistically wise in one season. The rest are pointless conjectures.