[Oranges038]

think it makes the most sense to keep ddg for one more year while we build the philosophy that ETH wants around him, then replace next season with a modern goalkeeper. Think with all the holes the delta between ddg and the "modern" gk isnt as big as some of the other positions we desperately need to upgrade. Need a whole new midfield really, figure out a CB tandem moving forward, find real fullbacks, and sort out attackers. Just dont extend ddg and once things are shaping up as a whole for the squad then you replace him

This is just like Joe Hart and City when Pep came in, Joe Hart wasn't as good as DDG by any stretch but he had the same limitations.
Not comfortable enough on the ball, his short passing and composure just weren't up to scratch and he wasn't comfortable playing behind a higher line.

How can ETH succesfully implement a higher line and a more possession based game, when one of the players who is crucial to that being a success is proven to be either incapable or unwilling to play the way that system requires?

 

[RedDevil@84]

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Just.. why? Why do so before ETH comes in with a chance to evaluate whether he fits his style or not

A 2 year contract starting today for 150k?

 

[glazed]

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Just.. why? Why do so before ETH comes in with a chance to evaluate whether he fits his style or not

This has got to be bullcrap. There's no way DdG survives two years of ETH unless something has gone seriously sideways.

 

[SAFMUTD]

People calling him a problem like we were playing like City or Liverpool, he's a great shot stopper with poor distribution. I can think of other 9 starters I would change before changing him. He's the least of our problems currently.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I can think of other 9 starters I would change before changing him

But Rangnick wants 10 new players

 

[SAFMUTD]

But Rangnick wants 10 new players

And I want 23, but cant have them all

 

[FerociousCorgis]

This is just like Joe Hart and City when Pep came in, Joe Hart wasn't as good as DDG by any stretch but he had the same limitations.
Not comfortable enough on the ball, his short passing and composure just weren't up to scratch and he wasn't comfortable playing behind a higher line.

How can ETH succesfully implement a higher line and a more possession based game, when one of the players who is crucial to that being a success is proven to be either incapable or unwilling to play the way that system requires?

meh i think we have much more holes to fill than pep did then. Our midfield has nobody id want to see as a starter next year. Same with our fullbacks at this point. Cbs id have faith in varane to figure it out but for me id move on from maguire. Then our attack is essentially an aging ronaldo and sancho....and thats about it. So a lot more to fill than i think pep did back then


and lets be honest, ddg is 10 times the goalie joe hart ever was

 

[Giggsyking]

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[CloneMC16]

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Just.. why? Why do so before ETH comes in with a chance to evaluate whether he fits his style or not

We did it with Bruno. The club doesn't care.

De Gea mistakes thread this season

Not sure how he constantly gets lapped up. I think it doesn’t help that the commentators seem to moan his name extra loud when he makes a save. You could arguably make one of these threads for almost every season he’s been here

Our fans do the same thing. Every time he makes a save, they get massively overrated. I go on Twitter and see a bunch of people saying he's our PoTS and nobody is coming close. They say if he wasn't in goal, we'd be 10th. They make it out as if if he wasn't playing, we'd have nobody in goal. Another good keeper would make 90% of the saves he makes, and stop some of them from even progressing to a shot in the first place.

There are too many goals there where he refuses to leave his 6 yard box. He could have stopped some of them if he was more proactive.

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That's the problem. A lot of us can see that his style of goalkeeping is an issue, but we have so many other areas to fix. I think we're going to get at least one more season of De Gea in goal. If he signs a new contract, we're probably stuck with him for another 3 years.

More lack of proactivity.

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[AjaxCunian]

Is Handanovic really the best kicking keeper in football?

He lumps it up to the likes of Dzeko, this does matter.

De Gea mistakes thread this season

Not sure how he constantly gets lapped up. I think it doesn’t help that the commentators seem to moan his name extra loud when he makes a save. You could arguably make one of these threads for almost every season he’s been here

Hilarious, but true (moaning). Promote this guy mods.

 

[bosnian_red]

Also you never know with the contract. Who is to say it isn't with a pay reduction and a role change? Maybe he's ok with fighting for his place long term even without the guarantee of being a starter? As of now, he is a better goalkeeper than anything we have, and will remain so until we try to replace him. We will likely try to do that in 2023. Its up to the manager to pick the best option at that point. Maybe De Gea is fine with switching to a 2nd goalkeeper role in the case of Ten Hag preferring someone else. We literally don't know any details or even if it's true.

 

[-Supreme-]

if reports are true then I think we are only looking to activate his 1 year optional extension till 204

 

[Oranges038]

meh i think we have much more holes to fill than pep did then. Our midfield has nobody id want to see as a starter next year. Same with our fullbacks at this point. Cbs id have faith in varane to figure it out but for me id move on from maguire. Then our attack is essentially an aging ronaldo and sancho....and thats about it. So a lot more to fill than i think pep did back then


and lets be honest, ddg is 10 times the goalie joe hart ever was

You are missing the point. Pep got rid of Hart, but he also had to upgrade the entire backline, to make his system work to full effect.

The first thing he did was get rid of the player who influences playing out from the back and playing higher the most. And that is the keeper.

 

[Idxomer]

You are missing the point. Pep got rid of Hart, but he also had to upgrade the entire backline, to make his system work to full effect.

The first thing he did was get rid of the player who influences playing out from the back and playing higher the most. And that is the keeper.

And he had some terrible fullbacks at the time but made Hart redundant first.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

You are missing the point. Pep got rid of Hart, but he also had to upgrade the entire backline, to make his system work to full effect.

The first thing he did was get rid of the player who influences playing out from the back and playing higher the most. And that is the keeper.

u seem to be missing the point though as well that he had a better base to work with than we have here, at least based on what im remembering. At this point so long ago i cant really remember that city team previously. My point is that i can see the logic in ETH coming in to improve things around ddg this year, then bring in the true one next year if need be. What i wont understand is if we extend DDG contract. If there is an inexpensive keeper that they think they can unearth for this year im all for it though as well. I dont believe it makes much sense to blow a good chunk of the transfer budget to replace ddg if it means that new keeper is still passing to players like AWB, shaw, Mctominay, Fred, slow ass molasses maguire and we are constantly losing possession and giving up easy goals.

 

[Oranges038]

u seem to be missing the point though as well that he had a better base to work with than we have here, at least based on what im remembering. At this point so long ago i cant really remember that city team previously. My point is that i can see the logic in ETH coming in to improve things around ddg this year, then bring in the true one next year if need be. What i wont understand is if we extend DDG contract. If there is an inexpensive keeper that they think they can unearth for this year im all for it though as well. I dont believe it makes much sense to blow a good chunk of the transfer budget to replace ddg if it means that new keeper is still passing to players like AWB, shaw, Mctominay, Fred, slow ass molasses maguire and we are constantly losing possession and giving up easy goals.

He inherited a team with a solid spine but he made the decisions to suit how he wanted to play. He got rid of or replaced most of the players, I can remember only Kompany, Silva and Zabaleta really left of their own accord.

Central to that was getting the keeper right, just like Klopp did with Allisson, just like Cech at Chelsea, just like VDS and Schmeichel at Utd in the past.

I genuinely don't see how ETH could come in an implement his style from the off with a keeper who is the opposite of what he wants in his his team. If the club persist in offering him a new long term deal and saddle him on ETH then it's clear they haven't leaned a thing in the last 10 years.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

He inherited a team with a solid spine but he made the decisions to suit how he wanted to play. He got rid of or replaced most of the players, I can remember only Kompany, Silva and Zabaleta really left of their own accord.

Central to that was getting the keeper right, just like Klopp did with Allisson, just like Cech at Chelsea, just like VDS and Schmeichel at Utd in the past.

I genuinely don't see how ETH could come in an implement his style from the off with a keeper who is the opposite of what he wants in his his team. If the club persist in offering him a new long term deal and saddle him on ETH then it's clear they haven't leaned a thing in the last 10 years.

i mean i think if people think he can help "fix" other players on the team who says he cant do the same with ddg and get him to a level that is ok for the next year or so? And i can tell you if you plop allisson into our current team he would look like an absolute disaster.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Anyone watch or remember that Ramsdale managed to caught cleanly of Bruno's corner?

When was the last time I saw DDG does something like that, coming out to catch opposition corner kick cleanly?

May be Enrique has good multiple reasons for dropping him off from the Spain squad. Not only he's poor with his distribution, he's not brave enough to come out of his line/area. Surely, the board should just wait.

 

[Oranges038]

i mean i think if people think he can help "fix" other players on the team who says he cant do the same with ddg and get him to a level that is ok for the next year or so? And i can tell you if you plop allisson into our current team he would look like an absolute disaster.

I don't think so, DDG has one redeeming quality, Allisson is a much better keeper and has attributes that would actually prove to be more beneficial as they would actually reduce the number of chances conceded.

Playing a higher line with a more vocal and commanding keeper is gonna lead to a lot less chances and goals conceded than playing with a mute that is stuck to his line waiting for saves.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

I don't think so, DDG has one redeeming quality, Allisson is a much better keeper and has attributes that would actually prove to be more beneficial as they would actually reduce the number of chances conceded.

Playing a higher line with a more vocal and commanding keeper is gonna lead to a lot less chances and goals conceded than playing with a mute that is stuck to his line waiting for saves.

i shudder at the thought of maguire playing even higher haha.

 

[Adnan]

John Harrison who uses his own bespoke stats for keepers, has had his work highlighted on Sky Sports by Jamie Carragher.

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[The Oracle]

John Harrison who uses his own bespoke stats for keepers, has had his work highlighted on Sky Sports by Jamie Carragher.

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De Gea nowhere to be seen on that list.

One on one's are also part of shot-stopping as well, and De Gea is absolutely horrendous at them!

 

[sullydnl]

De Gea nowhere to be seen on that list.

One on one's are also part of shot-stopping as well, and De Gea is absolutely horrendous at them!

Actually as per the same metrics he's not horrendous, he's just average. 9th in the league as of the start of April.

Because while for the shorter range 1v1s the model's optimal choice is to be aggressive and come out, for the longer range ones it's to be patient and stay where you are. And like a stopped clock De Gea is consistently excellent at the latter.

Someone like Ederson is actually one place below De Gea for the same reason except in reverse. Brilliant at being aggressive and smothering close range 1v1s but often leaves himself stranded in no-man's land for longer range ones.

 

[Adnan]

De Gea nowhere to be seen on that list.

One on one's are also part of shot-stopping as well, and De Gea is absolutely horrendous at them!

I first highlighted that many years ago but was drowned out by fans who were incensed by my criticisms of de Gea. He's not good enough as a keeper but in our current predicament, it's important we don't destabilise the keeper position when we need to upgrade and raise the floor of the whole dynamic.

So in the case of de Gea, it might be better if ten Hag looks to bring in a reasonably priced younger understudy, to eventually replace de Gea in the mid to long-term. And eventhough I've been a staunch critic of de Gea for many years, I do believe it would be prudent to improve the collective in other areas before moving de Gea on. Because we don't want to end up in a situation where we improve the keeper when it comes to distribution but he makes us weaker in other areas.

Luis Enrique is reported to value keepers with two traits, and those are distribution and command of the box.
And it's the reason de Gea has been dropped. And I completely agree with Luis Enrique, and we should also prioritise a keeper with physical presence to command his box, and have good distribution.

So IMO, if we can bring in a younger understudy who is showing the potential to develop into a commanding keeper with good distribution, then that would be a good way to build for the mid to long-term. But any keeper that is brought to the club and he doesn't have the aforementioned traits, then IMO, he won't be good enough as the long-term option for us.

 

[The Oracle]

I first highlighted that many years ago but was drowned out by fans who were incensed by my criticisms of de Gea. He's not good enough as a keeper but in our current predicament, it's important we don't destabilise the keeper position when we need to upgrade and raise the floor of the whole dynamic.

So in the case of de Gea, it might be better if ten Hag looks to bring in a reasonably priced younger understudy, to eventually replace de Gea in the mid to long-term. And eventhough I've been a staunch critic of de Gea for many years, I do believe it would be prudent to improve the collective in other areas before moving de Gea on. Because we don't want to end up in a situation where we improve the keeper when it comes to distribution but he makes us weaker in other areas.

Luis Enrique is reported to value keepers with two traits, and those are distribution and command of the box.
And it's the reason de Gea has been dropped. And I completely agree with Luis Enrique, and we should also prioritise a keeper with physical presence to command his box, and have good distribution.

So IMO, if we can bring in a younger understudy who is showing the potential to develop into a commanding keeper with good distribution, then that would be a good way to build for the mid to long-term. But any keeper that is brought to the club and he doesn't have the aforementioned traits, then IMO, he won't be good enough as the long-term option for us.

I completely agree that De Gea should be replaced, even if it means he is phased out over the next season or two.

It is complete madness that there is currently talk of him extending his contract beyond the two years that he currently has left.

 

[Adnan]

I completely agree that De Gea should be replaced, even if it means he is phased out over the next season or two.

It is complete madness that there is currently talk of him extending his contract beyond the two years that he currently has left.

I think the talk of him extending hasn't come from the likes of Stone, Peach, Ducker etc. So I'm going to hold fire on that until the aforementioned journos also mention the same.

 

[Red Shorts]

Anyone watch or remember that Ramsdale managed to caught cleanly of Bruno's corner?

When was the last time I saw DDG does something like that, coming out to catch opposition corner kick cleanly?

May be Enrique has good multiple reasons for dropping him off from the Spain squad. Not only he's poor with his distribution, he's not brave enough to come out of his line/area. Surely, the board should just wait.

Literally did it against Arsenal

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Literally did it against Arsenal

What minute?

 

[romufc]

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A decisive keeper makes a big difference.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Also you never know with the contract. Who is to say it isn't with a pay reduction and a role change? Maybe he's ok with fighting for his place long term even without the guarantee of being a starter? As of now, he is a better goalkeeper than anything we have, and will remain so until we try to replace him. We will likely try to do that in 2023. Its up to the manager to pick the best option at that point. Maybe De Gea is fine with switching to a 2nd goalkeeper role in the case of Ten Hag preferring someone else. We literally don't know any details or even if it's true.

The chance of that is precisely zero.

 

[JB7]

Literally did it against Arsenal

Did he? I must have missed that, he did punch a cross at Anfield under no pressure that he could easily have caught though. It's easy to remember these things because he's dealt with 8 crosses all season in the league (out of 257 faced).

Funnily enough 8 is also the exact same number of times all season he's swept behind the defence outside of his penalty area - yes less than once every 4 matches in a team that tries to play with a high line.

 

[Oranges038]

i shudder at the thought of maguire playing even higher haha.

Maybe so and I don't particularly like him as a player or think he is all that good, but he actually seems more comfortable defending higher than he is around the box. It would actually make his job a hell of a lot easier.

If he were to play higher he wouldn't have to make those decisions to run 20 yards into midfield to try and win the ball, it would be more like 5 yards and the chances of him getting there are much higher.

It would also significantly reduce the gap between the defence, midfield and attack. Part of the reason Utd struggle to press properly and are easy to cut through is that the attack, midfield, defence and keeper don't all move up together, there is often 70-80 yards between the keeper and the striker. You have a keeper that pushes the backline up and you can condense that space to 50 yards. Which would give opposing teams a harder time playing out through a press and much less space to play into in front of him.

You would have the issue of balls going over and behind him, but that's where having a keeper who is pushing up with the line comes into play, to be there to clean those up so he doesn't have to chase 40 yards back to his own goal.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Did he? I must have missed that, he did punch a cross at Anfield under no pressure that he could easily have caught though. It's easy to remember these things because he's dealt with 8 crosses all season in the league (out of 257 faced).

Funnily enough 8 is also the exact same number of times all season he's swept behind the defence outside of his penalty area - yes less than once every 4 matches in a team that tries to play with a high line.

Horrible at crosses, kicking and sweeping. Poor communication , not commanding and a soft touch. Hey but he's a good shot stopper so lets keep him another 5 years.

 

[Lay]

Did he? I must have missed that, he did punch a cross at Anfield under no pressure that he could easily have caught though. It's easy to remember these things because he's dealt with 8 crosses all season in the league (out of 257 faced).

Funnily enough 8 is also the exact same number of times all season he's swept behind the defence outside of his penalty area - yes less than once every 4 matches in a team that tries to play with a high line.

Christ it’s worse than I thought. Our defence is a mess and DDG is one of the reasons for that. We can’t play a high line with him, defenders can’t rely on the goalkeeper to collect a cross or a corner.

He’s not the biggest problem but he’s a problem.

If we go back to Ole’s famous night in Paris, DDG almost lost it by attempting the weakest punch in injury time when the ball was easily catchable.

If he’s still the goalkeeper in two seasons time I’ll be surprised.

 

[Cloud7]

De Gea's best form comes when the team isn't doing well, because facing a non stop barrage of shots allows his one stellar attribute to be on display, his shot stopping. Anytime we edge a little towards being a functional team again (Briefly under Jose and Ole) and a little more is asked of him besides shot stopping, he tends to go "out of form" because he doesn't have much else to his game.

Someone can have undeniable qualities while still being part of the bigger problem. It doesn't mean that you don't recognize and appreciate those qualities but you have to come to terms with the fact that the player might not be a part of the solution going forward, and that is where we were with DDG IMO.

 

[bosnian_red]

The chance of that is precisely zero.

Eh, he has 1 year left and is nowhere near the same goalkeeper as when he signed his original contract. Has it never happened where a player restructures his contract, dropping from let's say 300k a week for 1 year to 150 or 200k a week for another 3 years? Especially if he's happy and settled in Manchester with his kid now. He doesn't seem to mind being out of the reckoning for the Spanish national team so he might be OK with being phased out too.

 

[gajender]

Eh, he has 1 year left and is nowhere near the same goalkeeper as when he signed his original contract. Has it never happened where a player restructures his contract, dropping from let's say 300k a week for 1 year to 150 or 200k a week for another 3 years? Especially if he's happy and settled in Manchester with his kid now. He doesn't seem to mind being out of the reckoning for the Spanish national team so he might be OK with being phased out too.

Even if agrees to be on 100 k what's the point of keeping him as second choice instead of getting a Back Up keeper along with the first Choice who is more rounded and suitable to be part of progressive team because whole setup suffers if the regular keeper gets injured and you end relying on your back up for extended period.

 

[bosnian_red]

Even if agrees to be on 100 k what's the point of keeping him as second choice instead of getting a Back Up keeper along with the first Choice who is more rounded and suitable to be part of progressive team because whole setup suffers if the regular keeper gets injured and you end relying on your back up for extended period.

Probably because sometimes it's just difficult to replace every single player in your squad in a cost effective way

 

[CloneMC16]

Christ it’s worse than I thought. Our defence is a mess and DDG is one of the reasons for that. We can’t play a high line with him, defenders can’t rely on the goalkeeper to collect a cross or a corner.

He’s not the biggest problem but he’s a problem.

If we go back to Ole’s famous night in Paris, DDG almost lost it by attempting the weakest punch in injury time when the ball was easily catchable.

If he’s still the goalkeeper in two seasons time I’ll be surprised.

This is it. We've conceded 51 goals (!) so far this season. We still have Chelsea to play, so we're highly likely adding to that tally in our next match. The whole team has to take some of the blame, but we have fans that think De Gea isn't a problem. We've conceded a ridiculous amount of goals with him in goal. He is part of the problem.

To everybody here that believes he's a problem, how important do you think replacing him is? Should he be one of the first players to be replaced, or do we wait until other positions get sorted first?

 

[Oranges038]

This is it. We've conceded 51 goals (!) so far this season. We still have Chelsea to play, so we're highly likely adding to that tally in our next match. The whole team has to take some of the blame, but we have fans that think De Gea isn't a problem. We've conceded a ridiculous amount of goals with him in goal. He is part of the problem.

To everybody here that believes he's a problem, how important do you think replacing him is? Should he be one of the first players to be replaced, or do we wait until other positions get sorted first?

I know people don't think Henderson is that good, or anything other than average. But DDG has been conceding over a goal a game going on 3 / 4 seasons in a row.

With Henderson that went well below a goal a game. He also kept the same amount of clean sheets in ten less games, the team also won 1 less game 17/26 against 18/36 with DDG. It's like a 50% win rate with him in goal, because he almost always concedes at least 1.

Now, I know people like to counter this by saying Henderson played against worse teams and then always bring up that Salah goal. But fail to ever mention the Arsenal incident or many others from DDG. DDG has conceded goals against almost every team every year for the last 3 or 4 years.

What it proved was that even an "average" keeper like Henderson who has better all round abilities is actually better for the team as a whole than DDG. So for me at least he's in the top 2 or 3 players that need to be replaced and I for one would be happy to see Henderson get another shot at it.