Pickle85
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Does average mean something different these days? Because people say De Gea is average and then you say Real Madrid are average.Given that I don't read every single post of every thread, why don't you educate me?
On Courtois, Madrid have won the league twice in the last five years (and lost it to some pretty average Barca and Atleti sides three times) with an average of slightly more than 80 points and a peak of 87. Their peak season would have been enough to win the PL in the COVID season and that's it. The winner of the PL has averaged 95 points over the same time and the lowest season (by some margin was 86). You cannot get 90+ points consistently without being in control of the ball the overwhelming majority of the time, that means having a ball playing keeper. Look at all the sides across Europe who consistently gain 90+ points per season over the same time period: Bayern, Ajax (under Ten Hag), City and Liverpool. All of them dominate the ball to a ridiculous degree and all have excellent ball-playing keepers to facilitate this. Madrid are the only successful exception you can name, yet they're a pretty average league side who do very well in cups.
Average in the sense that they don't dominate their league consistently and haven't done for two decades. They have seven wins in a (mostly) two horse league (United have one fewer in the same timespan, half of which we've been pretty shite and we have to compete with at least four other clubs with comparable revenues, rather than one), two fewer than Barcelona. That becomes 6 vs 10 in favour of Barcelona at the end of this season.Does average mean something different these days? Because people say De Gea is average and then you say Real Madrid are average.
I wish United had been average over the past decade, by my calculations that would mean 4 league titles and 4 Champions Leagues, based on the newly defined average
"None of his mistakes lead to goals" you just made this up without any real evidence. And even so, it's an idiotic way of looking at football. If you had a keeper that never made a save and was incapable of doing so, but you'd won 15 games in a row because the defense never allowed a shot on target, would you keep that keeper around because "we just get clean sheets with him in goal"?Which part do you disagree with? That was a poor performance even by De Gea standards. But none of his mistakes lead to goals. Goalkeepers like Alisson and Ederson do in fact occasionally make costly passing mistakes that lead to goals, but these mistakes are shrugged off because people assume that the overall good passing outweighs these mistakes.
I personally disagree with this. I'd rather the goalkeeper don't try to be an outfield player. Or to make it simpler terms:
Goalkeeper A
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 5 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 0 goals per season due to passing mistakes
Goalkeeper B
- 9 out of 10 when it comes to making saves
- 10 out of 10 when it comes to passing and distribution
- Concedes 1 goal per season due to passing mistakes(or keeping the ball for too long)
I pick Goalkeeper A any day of the week. And I am convinced that he is worth more points as well.
Exactly, yet people see him pull off a couple of saves like in the Leicester match and just cover their eyes and assume he's still World ClassYikes. And this is in a season where the eye test tells us his shot stopping has improved from recent seasons. 28th place in a 19 team league is really quite something. And that’s the part of his game that’s supposed to be his strength!
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That's very much like saying you prefer your striker to focus on scoring goals and not pressing.I'd rather the goalkeeper don't try to be an outfield player.
So this is his worst season?Tweet
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Aside from distorting how we view the issues in our current side, the other downside to people claiming that De Gea's shot-stopping is currently top class is that it does a disservice to how good he was when his shot stopping was actually top class.
It would be a shame if people talked themselves or others into thinking he hasn't declined from his peak, as if what we have now is as good as he ever was.
I think there is a slightly greater than 50% chance he will be here next year, mainly bc United doesn't have as much money to spend as people think. If he's willing to extend for ~ 200K per week, then I think United would prefer to keep him vs spending 65mm to activate Diogo Costa's release clause. (Or of course spending big on another keeper.)It's interesting the confidence some in this thread seem to have that he'll be our number one next season, given the various glaring weaknesses he has shown throughout the season and the fact that we tried to replace him not once but twice last summer (Yann Sommer, then Kevin Trapp). What gives people the certainty that Ten Hag's opinion of him will have improved as the season has gone on?
I think you're maybe both wrong and Ten Hag is preparing De Gea to resign knowing we're bringing in a passing keeper like Raya or another guy like that for the kind of price where it's not a disaster if he's a backup long term or can be sold for decent money coming back, like 20M.Wishful thinking on your part. I bet you a fiver (big money, I know!) that DDG is still our first choice when we start next season.
Yeah just read between the lines from what Erik said after the Betis game about him not being great with his feetIt was strange to watch De Gea last game, doing such unmotivated errors. It was hard to see what he was even trying to do, like he'd lost all control. He looked to improve his passing for a while, but seems to be in a downwards spiral at the moment. I'm overall happy with De Gea this season, and he've had made som silly saves that most keepers can't make, even if there are one or two that can. He has shown in many games that he can pass the ball on his day, but looks to be increasingly losing confident in himself the last few games.
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He hasn't. Nowhere near. Why do people believe this kind of stuff?I might be very old fashioned but to me a goalkeepers 1st job and main job is keeping the ball out of the net. Except for a blip for about 18months (every player has bad periods) he has been the best at it. I wouldn't swap him for any keeper in the world.
A few years back when alvarez was his keeper coach his distrubution was great and since alvarez left its went downhill. Maybe it's the coaching and the drills. And also if you know your keeper isn't that good with his feet don't fecking pass it to him don't play from the back. It's not rocket science.
Loyalty to what he stopped being almost 5 years ago nowHe hasn't. Nowhere near. Why do people believe this kind of stuff?
I admire that you're still fighting this battle.He hasn't. Nowhere near. Why do people believe this kind of stuff?
Also because he makes every bog-standard save look so spectacular plus commentators love to go with the narrative of "where would Utd be without DDG?" every time he makes any kind of save.Loyalty to what he stopped being almost 5 years ago now
Feck me, that's horrible. I can't believe all of those goals are just from this season(even though I am sure there are far more bad passes than shown on that video though).Tweet
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Ok some of these aren't his fault but there are far more examples of shit passes than what is put here. He's honestly just a very bad goalkeeper now. His average shot stopping over the season isn't good. One off game might have a great shot stopping game but will still be a huge problem in build up and dealing with crosses. Over time, he makes too many shot stopping mistakes now for even that to be worth it. Biggest mistake we could do is resign him. He has to go. He's one of the worst in the league now.
Yeah the video just focused in on Brentford and Betis for the passing really..Feck me, that's horrible. I can't believe all of those goals are just from this season(even though I am sure there are far more bad passes than shown on that video though).
Ah yeah, it was a nice videoYeah the video just focused in on Brentford and Betis for the passing really..
Raya has stopped 94% of crosses!? Sign him up
That's percentiles. Poorly done graph by the author. Still, makes the De Gea are in the middle look like it's a joke. Sadly, it is, and it's on us.Raya has stopped 94% of crosses!? Sign him up
Agree, it takes away from the graph's point. Which is that De Gea is drastically worse in ALL measures compared to the two keepers we're most linked with.This chart is confusing me to death when I was looking at it in the other thread. Percentage and Percentiles are not the same. Yes, De Gea's numbers are bad, but perhaps not as bad as the chartmaker's understanding of data analysis.
How are people still peddling this line when, by all metrics, it’s just patently untrue?I might be very old fashioned but to me a goalkeepers 1st job and main job is keeping the ball out of the net. Except for a blip for about 18months (every player has bad periods) he has been the best at it. I wouldn't swap him for any keeper in the world.
Except that John Harrison has said that his model absolutely does take into account mistakes where a keeper comes for, and misses, a cross. So yes, it will show up in the stats.Kepa came for a cross there and almost let Leicester back in the game. Won't show up in the stats
any evidence to refute the author's data? I think no rational minds can dispute that De Gea is very very bad at metrics like sweeping, cross claiming and passing - one of the worst amongst PL goalkeepers. It is so obvious even when using eye test alone.This chart is confusing me to death when I was looking at it in the other thread. Percentage and Percentiles are not the same. Yes, De Gea's numbers are bad, but perhaps not as bad as the chartmaker's understanding of data analysis.
I meant it won't show up in the stats that most people peddle on hereHow are people still peddling this line when, by all metrics, it’s just patently untrue?
Except that John Harrison has said that his model absolutely does take into account mistakes where a keeper comes for, and misses, a cross. So yes, it will show up in the stats.
any evidence to refute the author's data? I think no rational minds can dispute that De Gea is very very bad at metrics like sweeping, cross claiming and passing - one of the worst amongst PL goalkeepers. It is so obvious even when using eye test alone.
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