[skc_18]

its called Glazernomics. Cheaper to keep players at the club than overpay on new

Atleast in de gea case, I dont think it is the case because it was not economics. It was ~350 K a week which comes to 72 million and almost zero resale value. Buying 60m GK with potential sale value would have made sense to them.

 

[bosnian_red]

We won't have a successful season next year if he is still our starter. It's been done to death by now, but it's not even that he isn't a modern goalkeeper. He isn't even a good goalkeeper for "back in the day" standards. Useless with hog balls. Makes tons of big high profile mistakes. Tends to crumble under pressure of big moments/big games.

On top of all that, yes he is utterly unsuited to a manager who wants to play a deep build up stay of football and actively hinders that.

 

[Seij]

Oh FFS!

These reduced terms better be significantly reduced- 200k less!!!

Nope. He already rejected 200k earlier this year. His new contract has to be more than that by some amount.

 

[sullydnl]

It's called variance

Likely to be more than that given that, as a tweet below that one notes, his run up to the point of that tweet would only happen to an average PK stopper 0.31% of the time.

 

[HTG]

He was fairly young and coming into a new league and culture when Ferguson signed him. If i remember correctly, the main issue, at first, was his concentration. He would produce fantastic saves followed by howlers. Ferguson, being the great man-manager he was, always protected him from the criticism coming from people on the outside looking in (press, pundits, ex-players etc.), but, when he felt De Gea hadn't made the desired progress, he would give Lindegaard the occasional start, just to keep David on his toes. There was also talk about him lacking the skill to command his area and, purportedly, his coaches (Chris Woods and Eric Steele, i think) were working on that. But, back then, De Gea was one of the players around whom the new side would be built. Ferguson was always very protective of the players he believed would help the club move forward. How De Gea himself interpreted SAF's arm around his shoulder, we don't know. His concentration got better with time, but the rest of the weaknesses pertained. I guess it was OK back then, since an ageing defensive line and midfield saw us defending very deep and very narrow during our last successful campaign in 2012/13. We still conceded numerous goals from crosses and set-pieces, but Evra and Rafael's inability to defend high balls and our undercooked zonal-marking were being blamed more than De Gea. Plus, we were still winning stuff back then.

I think the next big chapter was LvG who brought Frans Hoek as his goalkeeper coach. The latter, having already spent a dozen years at Ajax and having trained Valdés and Reina at a young age, carried his own ideas along at Carrington and he enjoyed LvG's full support. And after he left United, he, more or less, admitted that he wasn't exactly loved by De Gea. One of the reasons was that he preferred his goalkeepers to train in isolation. Previously, the GKs at United were doing 80/90% of their training with the rest of the players. The logic behind it was to train the defence to act as a unit. Hoek believed that individual training should make up the bulk of the training sessions because that's the only way a goalkeeper can weed out his weaknesses. By repetition and by not relying on his centre-halves to do his job for him. From what i know, this is the way most goalkeepers train nowadays. I also believe that LvG's tenure was the time when De Gea showed actual progress in his game. He was a better sweeper-keeper, he was more bold in coming off his line and he had improved massively in tête-à-tête situations with an almost Neuer-like ability to hold his nerve and not going down until the very last moment. After one season, we had the incident with the broken fax-machine and the rumours that he wanted to go to Madrid.

Next stop, Mourinho. Jose decided to bring Emilio Álvarez as his goalkeeping coach. He was De Gea's mentor at Atlético. You can make of this what you will. Álvarez claimed that De Gea wanted to leave United and Mourinho wished to appease him and make him reconsider. All the progress under LvG evaporated, but he still gave us two good seasons. He was one of the highlights of our infamous second-place (81 points) season under Maureen, which remains our best tally in the post-Ferguson era. When Solskjaer was appointed, he brought in Richard Hartis (another United man, who had worked at the club under SAF and had also followed Solskajer to Molde) as the senior goalkeeping coach. Nevertheless, Emilio Álvarez initially retained his position among the staff. He left when De Gea decided to cut ties with Mendes.

Great answer. Thanks for that.
So one could say that the one tool Ferguson had for motivating him, wasn’t utilised anymore later on and De Gea could pretty much do as he wanted.

 

[holdsteady]

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It's time. It's shades of Liverpool with Pepe Reina. Golden gloves and all

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Nope. He already rejected 200k earlier this year. His new contract has to be more than that by some amount.

Possibly, unless he rejected that thinking he could get more elsewhere, and then came back to the negotiating table in a worse bargaining position after realizing he can't.

But given our recent history of transfer and wage negotiations, you're probably right.

 

[sullydnl]

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Just remember, we tolerate all the unchallenged crosses, woeful distribution and lack of sweeping because our goalkeeper is so good at stopping shots.

Indeed.

Though, for balance, it's worth noting that De Gea had an above average PL season as per the same analyst.

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Average to slightly above average isn't what we want from our GK, especially given how poorly he fits the side stylistically, but nor is it quite as bad as some of his harshest critics would argue.

 

[Telsim]

It would be absolutely shocking if it's true we aren't looking for a new number 1.

 

[bdspeedy]

One of the reasons we don’t score a lot is the play from back is so bad.

Come on. One of a thousand reasons. We can't score because we don't have nearly the quality required. I expect Garnacho to be world class and hopefully Antony, Sancho and Greenwood live up to their potential, but which of our forwards would start for City? Rashford?

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Renewing his contract will be the single worst decision we’ve made post-Ferguson. I include renewing Rooney and bringing in Sanchez in that.

Yep. He will get ETH fired.

 

[Litch]

No sure about the first one but Im more pissed about the second. I think while hes good at shot stopping, arguably he might never had to make the bloody saves if he wasnt giving the ball away or coming for crosses....

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Indeed.

Though, for balance, it's worth noting that De Gea had an above average PL season as per the same analyst.

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Average to slightly above average isn't what we want from our GK, especially given how poorly he fits the side stylistically, but nor is it quite as bad as some of his harshest critics would argue.

That’s above average (and only slightly above average) in terms of shot stopping alone. Which fits with what his harshest critics have been saying for quite a while now. He is not an exceptional shot stopper. He’s not even a good shot stopper. So there’s absolutely no justification for accepting all his other failings just because he makes an occasional impressive looking save.

And that’s not even taking into account the obvious fact that a club with the aspirations that Manchester United has wouldn’t accept a barely better than PL average player in any other position so it’s madness to keep picking someone at that level in what has become arguably the most important position on the pitch, when you look at how many touches a keeper gets in an average game.

 

[NLunited]

Did you actually watch the game? De Gea spent the majority of the 90 minutes punting the ball back to City or into touch. His distribution is shockingly bad and we've been exposed several times in big games this season as a result.

The second goal is saved by most goalkeepers at this level. It definitely isn't a fluke, De Gea let in that pea roller at West Ham too. He's made a habit of making big mistakes, with his shot stopping and his distribution. I'm sure he'll be great for Elche or a club of equivalent standing, but not for Man Utd.

Playing long was the tactic, you think he is the one deciding to go long every time? No gk has a high succes rate on long balls because the defense always has an advantage on those.

I‘m not saying he should not go, I‘m just pointing out the criticism of him is reaching delusional proportions.

There are folks on here saying he could have saved Gündogan‘s rocket shot. The second goal was not an easy ball to save either. Should he have saved it? I think yes, but I can see why it was difficult.

Delusional responses. It is going to be fun when it is announced he is staying. I guess I‘m crazy , Ten Hag is deluded and y‘all are football experts.

I‘d love to get a new gk after we get a top striker in and two midfielders.

However, delusional contract demands might solve this whole issue for us.

 

[Howl]

I just don't understand how a back-up defender, when we already have Lindelof who is an acceptable back-up, can possibly be ahead of keeper in the order of importance. It would be nice to have, but the defender should only be NEEDED a small handful of games a season (and even that is ignoring the option of Shaw moving into that position) whereas the keeper impacts us every game of the season.

One striker, yes. Midfielder and keeper are about equal in the next most important roles.

That's a valid point, its just my view that a young backup in the mould of Varane would be better off than a backup keeper, or a cheap keeper. We've carried poor keepers over the line before. Also, wouldn't be a handful amount of games with how injury prone Varane is, remember we got lucky with the world cup placement as Varane got injured right before it but he only missed a couple of games.

 

[syrian_scholes]

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At the very top at this level you need to keep possession. We aren't doing that with De Gea we need a new keeper

Apparently somehow some believe it's not a De Gea issue, it's a problem caused by the defenders, coaches, and the manager and even keepers who are good with the ball would struggle in our team.

 

[syrian_scholes]

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It's time. It's shades of Liverpool with Pepe Reina. Golden gloves and all

The one where he stayed down vs Arsenal still makes me angry.

 

[CM]

Playing long was the tactic, you think he is the one deciding to go long every time? No gk has a high succes rate on long balls because the defense always has an advantage on those.

I‘m not saying he should not go, I‘m just pointing out the criticism of him is reaching delusional proportions.

There are folks on here saying he could have saved Gündogan‘s rocket shot. The second goal was not an easy ball to save either. Should he have saved it? I think yes, but I can see why it was difficult.

Delusional responses. It is going to be fun when it is announced he is staying. I guess I‘m crazy , Ten Hag is deluded and y‘all are football experts.

I‘d love to get a new gk after we get a top striker in and two midfielders.

However, delusional contract demands might solve this whole issue for us.

Ten Hag has obviously instructed him to go long after the Brentford game when he proved he was incapable of using his feet, yes. The point isn't about his decisions to go long, it's about his passing - short or long - being equally ineffective. Even when he does decide to go short he'll regularly pick the wrong pass and invite unnecessary pressure on our defence, see Maguire vs Sevilla.

There was also one instance in the City game where Casemiro was unmarked and practically begging De Gea to pass him the ball. De Gea proceeded to ignore him, punt it up the pitch straight to a City player and resulted in a chance for Haaland about 5 seconds later. These are not isolated incidents and there's nothing delusional about that.

I wouldn't have expected him to do anything much about the first goal, it was a great goal by Gundogan. The second was very preventable and I'd expect a top level goalkeeper to save that. De Gea has proven over the last couple of years he is no longer a top level goalkeeper. His shot stopping has diminished to such an extent where it's no longer a redeeming quality for his poor distribution.

 

[Cloudface]

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It's time. It's shades of Liverpool with Pepe Reina. Golden gloves and all

Disregarding the obvious mistakes and the fact he'll never attempt to cut out a ball that comes across the six yard box, his feet look really heavy attempting to save some of those long shots. He just flops down as his feet don't move him quick enough. Probably a bit of physical decline hitting his footwork and agility.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Playing long was the tactic, you think he is the one deciding to go long every time? No gk has a high succes rate on long balls because the defense always has an advantage on those.

I‘m not saying he should not go, I‘m just pointing out the criticism of him is reaching delusional proportions.

There are folks on here saying he could have saved Gündogan‘s rocket shot. The second goal was not an easy ball to save either. Should he have saved it? I think yes, but I can see why it was difficult.

Delusional responses. It is going to be fun when it is announced he is staying. I guess I‘m crazy , Ten Hag is deluded and y‘all are football experts.

I‘d love to get a new gk after we get a top striker in and two midfielders.

However, delusional contract demands might solve this whole issue for us.

Many (in fact, most) goalkeepers have a higher success rate than DDG though. Which is one of the many reasons he’s not good enough.

 

[Malone_Post]

Has @NLunited still not realised that the only reason De Gea has been instructed to play it long is because ETH has absolutely no faith in him playing out from the back? He tried to implement it, but De Gea simply couldn’t do it. He’s incapable. It just causes complete panic in the team. The fact that he’s been instructed to just go long and he’s just as rubbish at that as well says it all really.

He doesn’t have a single redeeming quality as a player anymore. Not a single one. He’s one of the worst keepers in the league in every metric, expect shot stopping where he’s slightly above average. This is the level of keeper we’ve been reduced too. It’s pure incompetence at this point to stick with him. And if he does, it will eventually cost ETH his job.

 

[Lay]

No sure about the first one but Im more pissed about the second. I think while hes good at shot stopping, arguably he might never had to make the bloody saves if he wasnt giving the ball away or coming for crosses....

Bingo. Having a proactive goalkeeper would make the whole defence stronger. But the defence starts 5 yards further back than they need to, they know DDG won't sweep up so just drop deep inviting pressure.

 

[city-puma]

Playing long was the tactic, you think he is the one deciding to go long every time? No gk has a high succes rate on long balls because the defense always has an advantage on those.

I‘m not saying he should not go, I‘m just pointing out the criticism of him is reaching delusional proportions.

There are folks on here saying he could have saved Gündogan‘s rocket shot. The second goal was not an easy ball to save either. Should he have saved it? I think yes, but I can see why it was difficult.

Delusional responses. It is going to be fun when it is announced he is staying. I guess I‘m crazy , Ten Hag is deluded and y‘all are football experts.

I‘d love to get a new gk after we get a top striker in and two midfielders.

However, delusional contract demands might solve this whole issue for us.

I think you missed the point that the reason to choose that tactic is because DDG can’t play passes.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

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[JB7]

Indeed.

Though, for balance, it's worth noting that De Gea had an above average PL season as per the same analyst.

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Average to slightly above average isn't what we want from our GK, especially given how poorly he fits the side stylistically, but nor is it quite as bad as some of his harshest critics would argue.

It's actually quite interesting that article. First thing to note is it only looks at shot-stopping, which everyone recognises as the area De Gea is strongest. Statistically he finished the season worth +1.9 goals on John Harrisons shot-stopping metric.

Of that 1.9, 0.86 came from his penalty save on the final day which was his best statistical stop of the season. It's his two next best stops that interest me, his stop from Iheanacho's header and his stop from Zouma's header. Both were described as kind of stops only De Gea could make IIRC, yet John Harrison's metric shows that Iheanacho's header was stopped over a third of the time (36.7% to be precise) and Zouma's header was stopped nearly half the time (46.1%) by the "average Premier League goalkeeper". So his top stops of the season, while they evidently were good stops, weren't really even stops that only De Gea could make.

I'll look forward to the complete report where he shows De Gea's overall value compared with the average goalkeeper. Spoiler - it won't be pretty reading for fans of our Dave.

Playing long was the tactic, you think he is the one deciding to go long every time? No gk has a high succes rate on long balls because the defense always has an advantage on those.

It was the tactic because he's incapable of passing through any kind of press. You think Ten Hag, or any manager actually, would have the goalkeeper going high and long to the zero aerial presence of Rashford/Sancho/Fernandes against Dias/Akanji/Stones/Rodri through choice? I'm not sure if the highlights were the balls he hit straight through to Ortega or the one he hit to the head of Sancho who was already being tightly marked by Akanji before he'd even hit the pass.

For reference according to Whoscored, City actually played more long balls than we did in the game as whole, 53 vs 52. Yet of those long balls, Ortega made only 13, whereas De Gea made 26 of ours. In terms of short passes, Ortega made 29 short passes, De Gea 12. Overall Ortega gave the ball away 3 times, De Gea 15. And to be clear the majority of those balls given away weren't the type of giveaways I tend to advocate, (without going into too much details Arsenal/Brentford play long balls into corners with no intention of keeping possession, aiming over heads of opposing full backs for attackers to press and win the ball high up the pitch), 1 went straight out of play, 2/3 straight through to Ortega and 8 were right around the centre circle. It was amateurish distribution.

 

[Adnan]

De Gea came back in for two reasons. Firstly because Ole was trying to be nice and letting him be the cup keeper (which likely cost us the Europa League that season), and then at the start of the following season Henderson had a bad case of covid which knocked him around for a few months. By the time he was available again De Gea had actually started that season well (the only time in the last five years where he looked somewhat like his old self), but then despite De Gea's performances dropping right off again he stayed as undisputed #1.

Not 100% certain, but from memory Henderson's mistakes were spread out over his time in goal, rather than all coming together in a clump. Each time he picked himself up and was solid again afterwards.

Luckhurst won't be popular, but this is from his piece.

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I would be very surprised if De Gea is still our number 1 next season. I fully expect him to be either #2 on significantly reduced wages or he will be released soon. The tweet below from Chris Wheeler again points to someone in the hierarchy still not signing off on the contract. We might even end up signing someone like a Yann Sommer on a short term deal, which could turn out to be a sensible move when trying to upgrade multiple positions in the team.

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[Big Ben Foster]

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Why would yesterday's performance have any impact on the go/no-go decision? Surely the club has more than enough data points on him by now.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

I could be wrong and hope I am but I reckon it’s already done and signed. Club were probably hoping to sneak the announcement out on the back of the euphoria of a cup win knowing it’ll rightly draw criticism and go down badly.

That said, I do think he’ll spend next season as second choice to someone.

 

[Oranges038]

I see what you mean by the bounce. Not only that it seems like he takes a step to the left then dives to the right. It's insane



I don't understand this view. What was fine about yesterday?
And where does the notion that people's main gripe is long kicking ?

Yeah, his footwork and shifting his feet was poor.

If you look at that video of the 100 goals conceded, there's many in there that are quite similar.

 

[sullydnl]

That’s above average (and only slightly above average) in terms of shot stopping alone. Which fits with what his harshest critics have been saying for quite a while now. He is not an exceptional shot stopper. He’s not even a good shot stopper. So there’s absolutely no justification for accepting all his other failings just because he makes an occasional impressive looking save.

And that’s not even taking into account the obvious fact that a club with the aspirations that Manchester United has wouldn’t accept a barely better than PL average player in any other position so it’s madness to keep picking someone at that level in what has become arguably the most important position on the pitch, when you look at how many touches a keeper gets in an average game.

Below is a comparison explicitly including those non shot-stopping factors, made with two league games left in the season at this point. De Gea still comes out as average overall and roughly on par with this season's league winning goalkeeper's performances.

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So again while you're absolutely right that average isn't good enough, it's unfair to use Harrison's data to criticise De Gea in one instance but then ignore it when it suggests he hasn't been as much of a liability across the season as you/we might have thought.

And if the data the club uses comes to a similar conclusion, any decision on ETH's part to prioritise other positions looks a lot more explicable than if De Gea has actually been the complete liability across the season that some seem to think.

 

[Dec9003]

There’s no justification for giving him a new contract, especially not to be no2. We don’t learn and we aren’t ruthless enough as a club.

 

[bucky]

Why would yesterday's performance have any impact on the go/no-go decision? Surely the club has more than enough data points on him by now.

Likely, that all that reporting is mostly bullshit to incite United fans and drive engagement to their social media, just like this:

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[GiddyUp]

The Lingard of goalkeepers. The only thing he excels at is something that hundreds of keepers do all over the world every match day, pull out a wonderful reflex save. Everything else he's not even premier league standard.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Has @NLunited still not realised that the only reason De Gea has been instructed to play it long is because ETH has absolutely no faith in him playing out from the back? He tried to implement it, but De Gea simply couldn’t do it. He’s incapable. It just causes complete panic in the team. The fact that he’s been instructed to just go long and he’s just as rubbish at that as well says it all really.

He doesn’t have a single redeeming quality as a player anymore. Not a single one. He’s one of the worst keepers in the league in every metric, expect shot stopping where he’s slightly above average. This is the level of keeper we’ve been reduced too. It’s pure incompetence at this point to stick with him. And if he does, it will eventually cost ETH his job.

This is well written and should be the definitive post on the subject.

Especially the bolded part.

 

[Bastian]

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Can't imagine they'll backtrack here, but it's the right thing to do.

Has there been any report about the length of contract offered?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

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Can't imagine they'll backtrack here, but it's the right thing to do.

Has there been any report about the length of contract offered?

Was hearing 2 years, which if true is a relief. Could be much worse.

 

[Bastian]

Was hearing 2 years, which if true is a relief. Could be much worse.

Yeah, that is a relief. If true then surely we are phasing him out and the #1 position will be fought for next season. I refuse to believe we won't address this mess in the summer.

 

[Adnan]

Yeah, that is a relief. If true then surely we are phasing him out and the #1 position will be fought for next season. I refuse to believe we won't address this mess in the summer.

Mike Mcgrath (Telegraph) reported it was a two year contract on significantly reduced terms which include bonuses dependent on the games he plays, with no guarantee of being #1. But I don't understand why they aren't signing off on the contract.

It was also reported by Rob Dawson in December last year about United working on a deal to sign Yann Sommer come the end of the season. He since joined Bayern but Neuer is now back in training and it looks like he will be the #1. Yann Sommer will likely look to move and he would be a good stop gap keeper to have for the short term. I can't see us signing a Diogo Costa or Maignan due to the cost unless the sale of the club goes through.

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/sto...eye-yann-sommer-transfer-sources?platform=amp

 

[Sir Matt]

Imagine how Madrid fans and the club would react to De Gea's performances over the last couple seasons. He would've been sold long before he could have gotten to this point. If only our fax machine had worked...

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Imagine how Madrid fans and the club would react to De Gea's performances over the last couple seasons. He would've been sold long before he could have gotten to this point. If only our fax machine had worked...

There was never a fax machine. Not sure how that myth started.