David Gill: We offered Pogba what he wanted (and other issues)

[Pogue Mahone]

For all you know, Scholes was brought back to provide cover once it became apparent that Pogba had no intention on staying, was already planning for a life in Italy and had his eye completely off the ball at United.

Certainly fits with what we saw from him in the reserves (and the Carling Cup game where he was so bad he got moved back into central defence after just 10 minutes on the pitch).

 

[Ekeke]

Anderson at the time was the best he's ever been, and he missed pretty much all of the season from October onwards, when Pogba should have been given a chance in his (and Cleverley's) absence. It was never Ando that kept him out of the team.

Anderson the best he's ever been was never going to be as good as Pogba could be. He was okay in a disappointing midfield. Standards were very low and we had one of the best young midfielders in the world wanting to be playing games. Anderson was the worst of our central midfielders playing a decent amount of games

 

[Chabon]

That's revisionist nonsense. Anderson was great in the early months of 2011-12, prior to which nobody would seriously have suggested Pogba should be anywhere near the first team. Pogba should have played in the league cup games at the time, and then been ready to provide another option when Anderson and Cleverley both got long term injuries in the late Autumn. By the time Anderson was back in any serious way, Pogba had gone.

 

[Freak]

I'd love to know his honest thoughts on moyes at this time. And if he says he needs more time, then he deserves a slap.

 

[sun_tzu]

Anderson the best he's ever been was never going to be as good as Pogba could be. He was okay in a disappointing midfield. Standards were very low and we had one of the best young midfielders in the world wanting to be playing games. Anderson was the worst of our central midfielders playing a decent amount of games

he was touted as being potentially the best player in the world when he signed... potential that seemed to be backed up with his early performance against arsenal.

He won the golden ball at the U17 world cup when her played as a no10

He won the golden boy award in 2008

previous winners were van der vaart, rooney, messi and aguero

after him was pato, ballotelli, gotze, isco, and most recently pogba

most have gone on to massive success with the arguable exceptions of anderson and pato

So anderson could have been that good - but I think by then it was obvious he was never going to be the no10 he looked like being in his youth and it never quite clicked in midfield for him.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's revisionist nonsense. Anderson was great in the early months of 2011-12, prior to which nobody would seriously have suggested Pogba should be anywhere near the first team. Pogba should have played in the league cup games at the time, and then been ready to provide another option when Anderson and Cleverley both got long term injuries in the late Autumn. By the time Anderson was back in any serious way, Pogba had gone.

Anderson's never been "great" for more than one or two consecutive games* in his entire United career to date.






* for "games", read hour long cameos.

 

[JaffyJoe]

Nothing we didn't know tbh. I never thought Ronaldo was coming back, on a team level he has so much to still achieve there. He has proven himself in this team and in this league.

I wish we would stop talking about Pogba but as long as we struggle and he shines that will be the case, everytime Thiago has a good game Barca are mentioned too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Nothing we didn't know tbh. I never thought Ronaldo was coming back, on a team level he has so much to still achieve there. He has proven himself in this team and in this league.

I wish we would stop talking about Pogba but as long as we struggle and he shines that will be the case, everytime Thiago has a good game Barca are mentioned too.

Bugger. Forgot about him. Another name for the depression session thread

 

[Sultan]

Scholes was injured for a number of games after coming out of retirement. Pogba could still have got plenty of games. It was pretty obvious he oozed class. Those responsible basically blundered. Happens a lot in football.

 

[Mersault]

But he wasn't offered what he wanted: games.

 

[Mauzindark]

We should've tied him up to a contract sooner. There's always a risk with young player who're out of contract. Barcelona learnt it the hard way when Cesc, Pique and others left for free and they got almost squat for years of education and coaching. That's why they now dole out longer contracts. And even when they sell promising youngsters it's with the noose of a buyback clause. Anyway lessons have been learnt from the Pogba episode and I'm glad with Adnan's 5 year deal.

 

[Ekeke]

he was touted as being potentially the best player in the world when he signed... potential that seemed to be backed up with his early performance against arsenal.

wat

No he was "potentially the best player in the world" suggested by posters on here which was always a ridiculous idea, but not surprising given the bias and knee-jerkness we often find with regards to our young players.

He won the golden ball at the U17 world cup when her played as a no10

He won the golden boy award in 2008

previous winners were van der vaart, rooney, messi and aguero

after him was pato, ballotelli, gotze, isco, and most recently pogba

most have gone on to massive success with the arguable exceptions of anderson and pato

So anderson could have been that good - but I think by then it was obvious he was never going to be the no10 he looked like being in his youth and it never quite clicked in midfield for him.

He could have been a good player. He should have been, but success at youth levels isnt what counts. What happens as a professional counts. And at the time Pogba wanted to be playing it was clear Anderson wasn't going to be the amazing player that posters here suggested in his first season. He also had a bad injury at Porto, a lot of fitness issues and very few outstanding performances for us. The few he did have were not consistant. It was clear we didn't even have half a world beater on our hands by then, thats not to say he couldnt come good. But he'd had more than enough chances. He shouldnt have been holding anyone else back - he wasnt good enough

He's fit and had a new start at a club that wants him this season at Fiorentina. They put him right into their first lineup, guess how he's doing

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Pogba left because he felt he wasn't getting the right amount of games. Simple as! From the time Fergie played Rafael and Park in the middle of the park against Blackburn where we lost, with Pogba being on the bench, I think he felt 'if i'm not going to play now, when will I play?' I didn't think money was an issue when he left, and this is now backed up with what Gill has said.

 

[Ekeke]

I suspect it was before that he wanted to be given chances. We fans didnt know it at the time, but hes one of the best young players in the world. Some suggest the best. It might have seemed early to us at the time because few knew that to be the case, but he obviously believed in himself and knew that he could do a good job in our piss poor midfield. He knew it so much he went to a team with maybe the 2nd or 3rd best central midfields in the world to compete for a spot. Maybe the club needed to believe in him half as much as he believed in himself.

 

[Rob Bowman]

The only mystery part in any of it is why United wouldn't just play him.

^This...

We have a huge OBVIOUS need for CMs. We have one with real potential and we play wing fullbacks over him. This is one of those that just hurts as I can not figure out any reason for it .

 

[hungrywing]

Pogba's problem wasn't greed, it was self entitlement in thinking he could coast through reserve games and still deserve a spot in the first team. But this issue has been debated to death a million times, and people are never going to change their opinions.

That plus SAF's zero-tolerance for that sort of thing. SAF testing his attitude was my read on it as well. TBF a lot of the young-skewing caf might not be able to recognize this.

I remember seeing something similar in person way back when playing tennis in school. Our coach judged this kid's level, put him in a lower group. Came back later, he was definitely at their level. A few days later some of the higher level kids went to the coach and said he should be playing with us, that they'd been hitting with him after practice and that he was better than some of us. Turned out the kid had been pretending to be bad for almost an entire week out of spite for that initial placement. Needless to say the coach was not happy at all with that attitude.

 

[kouroux]

Pogba did say in a interview that the day Rafael and Jones played in midfield ahead of him is when he was truly done with Utd. He never left for money, he felt betrayed by SAF (just relating what he exactly said) and in the end it worked out the best for everyone (Utd lost an unhappy player, Juventus signed a great player and France benefited from Pogba's development in Italy)

 

[Lu Tze]

Pogba's problem wasn't greed, it was self entitlement in thinking he could coast through reserve games and still deserve a spot in the first team. But this issue has been debated to death a million times, and people are never going to change their opinions.

Well I think Poggles has more than proved his point - he was far too good for reserve games, and SAF cocked up. Pogba did deserve a spot in the first team, whether SAF liked it or not.

 

[Rado_N]

Well I think Poggles has more than proved his point - he was far too good for reserve games, and SAF cocked up. Pogba did deserve a spot in the first team, whether SAF liked it or not.

Regardless of his talent, if he wasn't prepared to put his all into every game rather than acting like reserve team football was below him then he was never going to get in SAFs good books.

I always find it incredible how people are so keen to simply say 'SAF fecked up' about Pogba, without ever stopping to wonder why he didn't give him the minutes.

What seems more likely; that he saw an attitude that he didn't like, or that he was oblivious to the talent?

If SAF had questions over his work ethic then that's good enough for me, irrespective of how he's playing now. Talent is only a part of the equation.

Anyway, I've argued on this topic far too many times in the past, I'm bored with it, he's gone, good luck to him.

 

[Revan]

Well I think Poggles has more than proved his point - he was far too good for reserve games, and SAF cocked up. Pogba did deserve a spot in the first team, whether SAF liked it or not.

Exactly. And now Juventus have one of the best young midfielders in the world, while we have Carrick and some random guys with great attitude. Very untalented though.

Pogba becoming this good shows pretty well that he was right and SAF was wrong. But if course, it is still blasphemy admitting that SAF was wrong for anything. Like for signing Young when Mata went to Chelsea for a similar price.

 

[IrishLegend]

Regardless of his talent, if he wasn't prepared to put his all into every game rather than acting like reserve team football was below him then he was never going to get in SAFs good books.

It was.

 

[Varun]

This has been known for a while. Nothing new. He made the right career choice and we fecked up badly. Worst thing is, SAF knew he had to give him the chance judging by his pre season comments. Ah well..

 

[surf]

I'm not sure that Pogba would have stayed much longer anyway. Which is very disappointing but not particularly the club's fault.

 

[mic.m]

Fergie gave Ronaldo, Rooney, Anderson, Rafael, Fabio, Welbeck, Gibson, De Gea, Smalling, Jones plenty of playing time as youngsters. Even the likes of Tosic, Bebe, De Laert, Obertan, Diouf got a lot of decent game time before they were let go. I don't get why he chose to take his time with Pogba. If he felt he wasn't ready why didn't he at least send him out on loan? I don't think his attitude was that big of a problem. We've had players with a worse attitude than what he is accused of. He has shown at Juventus that he is level headed. No tantrums, no petulance just gets on with the game. + he has never said anything negative about the club just the usual complaint about not getting game time whilst a winger, a striker, a fullback and two 38 year olds were playing in midfield.

 

[Rado_N]

It was.

That's not for him to decide. If SAF asks you to play in the reserves, you give it your all.

 

[Carl]

"Gave him what he wanted" Odd that, I don't remember seeing minutes on the pitch.

 

[Carl]

That's not for him to decide. If SAF asks you to play in the reserves, you give it your all.

I totally agree that it isn't for a young player to demand more chances in the first team. Having said that, I totally see where Pogba was coming from when the likes of Park and Rafael were getting the nod ahead of you in your favoured position.

 

[Will Absolute]

Pogba did what was best for his career. He wanted to play football and he knew he was good enough and he has shown it at Juventus. I hold Fergie responsible for playing Park and Rafael in midfield then bringing Scholes back. It's one the few mistakes that Fergie made.

Fergie made a lot of mistakes in his later years. A glance at our record in the transfer market from 2006 will confirm that.

 

[Ringo 07]

We should have gotten John Shittu to kidnap him and take him to some hotel in London and put a gun pointing at him while he was in front of the sky cameras and tell him to say that he was pressurized into signing with Juve and that he wanted Utd all along

 

[Rob Bowman]

Well I think Poggles has more than proved his point - he was far too good for reserve games, and SAF cocked up. Pogba did deserve a spot in the first team, whether SAF liked it or not.

And SAF was a master at knowing different players needed different motivation. At the end of the day I think it is fairly clear that United got this one wrong .

 

[Ekeke]

That's not for him to decide. If SAF asks you to play in the reserves, you give it your all.

Unless you're actually one of the best midfielders in the world, in which case you move on a free to a top club and be at the top of the game for 10 years

 

[Member 5225]

love how RedCafe is quoted on news sites:

http://www.offthepost.info/blog/201...campaign=Feed:+offthepost/TLAa+(Off+The+Post)

and

http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/footbal...ited-did-everything-to-keep-pogba_145124.html

 

[Rob Bowman]

That's not for him to decide. If SAF asks you to play in the reserves, you give it your all.

Remember Scholes refusing to play that one game... ?

 

[Revan]

That's not for him to decide. If SAF asks you to play in the reserves, you give it your all.

Depends how good the player is and how many offers from other clubs have. If he gets an offer from one of the biggest clbs in the world to play, then better that, then wait for his chance playing in reserves or in a loan to Championship. Fergie didn't even took him in pre-season. He wasn't near becoming a regular in Fergie;s head.

 

[sun_tzu]

Remember Scholes refusing to play that one game... ?

Or when cantona didnt sign for wednesday because they wanted him to play a reserve game as a trial

 

[Gladiator]

Pogba did say in a interview that the day Rafael and Jones played in midfield ahead of him is when he was truly done with Utd. He never left for money, he felt betrayed by SAF (just relating what he exactly said) and in the end it worked out the best for everyone (Utd lost an unhappy player, Juventus signed a great player and France benefited from Pogba's development in Italy)

hard to know where the truth lies really. seems like both sides (pogba and united) are eager to cover their arses on this story. certainly feel pogba should have played more but scholes' return and rvp's signing told me all i needed to know about saf's intentions

 

[devilish]

Regardless of his talent, if he wasn't prepared to put his all into every game rather than acting like reserve team football was below him then he was never going to get in SAFs good books.

I always find it incredible how people are so keen to simply say 'SAF fecked up' about Pogba, without ever stopping to wonder why he didn't give him the minutes.

What seems more likely; that he saw an attitude that he didn't like, or that he was oblivious to the talent?

If SAF had questions over his work ethic then that's good enough for me, irrespective of how he's playing now. Talent is only a part of the equation.

Anyway, I've argued on this topic far too many times in the past, I'm bored with it, he's gone, good luck to him.

If Pogba had an attitude problem then why would SAF praise him in the beginning of the season? Why would we offer him a generous financial package in the first place? Surely SAF wouldn't want such negative influence anywhere to the team am I right?

I think that SAF never really come to terms that foreign kids tend to be different from local ones. First of all they aren't awed by 'the biggest club in the world' and the 'once you leave United the only way is down' BS. Secondly they tend to be brighter than their local counterparts, in a sense, that if their career isn't moving to the right direction at the right pace they move elsewhere. No wonder why in all these years SAF had struggled producing foreign homegrown talent in the first team (and that despite the majority of our best homegrown talent were actually foreign). Now some will quickly mention Rafael. Guess what? Rafael debuted with United at 18 years of age and was always involved in the first team ever since. Who knows what Pogba would have done if he was given the same opportunity?

Now the old school managers may see it as lack of loyalty. However I invite you to ponder on these two thoughts

a) Don't you think that a player who left his country at age 13-15, showing the middle finger to his home side, wouldn't do the same to his new side if his career isn't going to the right direction? I mean one can argue that Pogbas career was in fact going to the right direction at United. However that doesn't look like that if one consider that this kid wasn't getting matches with United (despite his competitors were mighty Ando and Cleverley) and moved to Juventus were he became one of the most promising midfielders in the world.

b) Which players did actually had the better career? Someone like Philip Neville who rotted as second fiddle for a number of players until SAF found a younger version of him to replace him or players like Pogba, Rossi and Pique who left the club at a young age and became crucial for club/country?

We see things as fans. However for these players its their career. Playing alot of games at an early stage of their career will determine whether they become a Gary Neville/Rafael or a Philip Neville/Fabio.

 

[Sky1981]

Can't we just agree that he's one that just got away (for whatever reasons)

Sometimes it just happens, just like Giggs could have been citeh's

 

[Stretch]

I don't get the whole 'But he was shite in the reserves that season, didn't play with desire' etc. Well, as far as I know our midfield was shite. We refused to promote and fast track him, a very obvious talent in the area we lacked most. He got disinterested after we refused to take a proper punt on him, and by that I mean saying to him 'Listen Paul we going to give you an extended run in the first team, show us what you got'. Hell, it couldn't be any worse than what he in CM already. He left and became an instant hit at Juve who, it should be noted had a better midfield than ours pre Pogba in any event. We dropped the ball on this one. I don't even think it's up for debate.

 

[kouroux]

hard to know where the truth lies really. seems like both sides (pogba and united) are eager to cover their arses on this story. certainly feel pogba should have played more but scholes' return and rvp's signing told me all i needed to know about saf's intentions

I think between Gill's interview and what Pogba said, we can have a pretty accurate perception of the truth.