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Day 19: Morocco vs Portugal | England vs France (QF 3&4)

wangyu

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slyadams said:
This is actually nonsense. Firstly France couldn’t get out of second gear. Do you seriously think their game plan was to be pinned back, concede two penalties, numerous fouls around the box and soak up pressure with that soft defence?

Secondly this side clearly doesn’t have that trauma. You see players being brave in difficult positions and playing like we know they do in the PL. The best thing Southgate has done for English football is getting his sides to play with freedom.

England were the better team tonight but a bad penalty miss, some good saves and not getting that bit of luck, which almost any team that wins a big tournament gets at some point along the way did for us.
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That is your feeling versus mine. I don't see that same fire in England that Morocco now has, same for Argentina. They wins games because they actually believe they can do it.

Best summed up in the first half when there was a throw in for England but the French claimed it and won the case while Saka looked sheepishly at it without getting fired on. You have to be a bastard, none of the English are bastards on the pitch.

England currently has more talent than Croatia , Morocco and Argentina combined but the desire isn't there. At this stage isn't about talent anymore but mentality.

This is also noticeable in the crowd. The fans of Argentina and Morocco are dancing, laughing and singing. They believe nothing can go wrong. The English and Dutch for example are in the stands with fear and tears in their eyes. It is a cultural difference.
 

Dan_F

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DevilRed said:
Yes!

And it seems to me that lloris is taller than pickford according to official metrics.
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Fair enough. I’ve seen Lloris let in an absolute shit tonne of shots worse than that, but I guess we’ll never know. Maybe that 30mm height difference between Ramsdale and Pickford means Southgate fecked up.
 

duffer

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jeff gurr said:
As a team England play without flair or imagination, Southgate stubbornly sticks with players even when they are out of form. He is ultra conservative & it reflects on the way the team plays.
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Who would you say he's stuck with that is out of form? Maguire perhaps but he's been good for England.

Sterling & Mount got dropped for playing poorly.
 

duffer

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hellhunter said:
Think it's more the players he doesn't call up/play like Maddison or the young CBs
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I'd have liked to have seen Tomori but can't really fault Stones or Maguire.

Maybe Grealish could've played more but Foden and Saka are in the same mould. I'm honestly not really seeing Maddison as an improvement on those 3.
 

Kopral Jono

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duffer said:
Who would you say he's stuck with that is out of form? Maguire perhaps but he's been good for England.

Sterling & Mount got dropped for playing poorly.
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And only for Southgate to brought them in tonight when what England needed were Rashford and Grealish. We all know he has his favourites but come on -- Sterling literally just got back from the UK a few days ago!
 

Zetrio2002

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Can't believe Portugal got knocked out. The goalkeeper Bono was top class once again. I think he's one of the best around.

Ronaldo almost scored one of the best equalizer around but the keeper was ready to dive and save it. He also saved from Joao. Pepe blows it by heading off target and Bruno had 2 shots that nearly went in.
 

duffer

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Kopral Jono said:
And only for Southgate to brought them in tonight when what England needed were Rashford and Grealish. We all know he has his favourites but come on -- Sterling literally just got back from the UK a few days ago!
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Mount won a pen and he did bring on Rashford just 6 minutes later.

Not the subs I would've made (especially Sterling) but he did drop his "favourites" a few games ago.
 

Fully Fledged

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Kopral Jono said:
And only for Southgate to brought them in tonight when what England needed were Rashford and Grealish. We all know he has his favourites but come on -- Sterling literally just got back from the UK a few days ago!
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Do you mean literally literally or are you using the word to over emphasise a remark that shouldn't be taken literally?
 

Tincanalley

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Henderson; Maguire; Walker. On the other hand, Bellingham. Prediction; no penalty shoot-out.

That was my prediction. I chickened out of picking a winner though
 

Tincanalley

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jeff gurr said:
As a team England play without flair or imagination, Southgate stubbornly sticks with players even when they are out of form. He is ultra conservative & it reflects on the way the team plays.
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I didn’t think Maguire was bad. Griezeman hurt them in midfield. Deserved win for France - both goals were excellent. English criticism of ref a bit deluded. Happy for Morocco. Only noticed now their keeper is called Bono. Poor lad. To be fair, Portugal missed a lot of chances.
 

Zetrio2002

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Haha Grealish is too slow. Mount and Saka were right to be playing. They won penalties.

But England can't score for nuts. England is marginally out of form in my opinion and they deserve to lose. They have to depend on two penalties and the rest of the players are not very close to scoring. Portugal has far better chances to score in comparison.
 

jeff gurr

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duffer said:
Who would you say he's stuck with that is out of form? Maguire perhaps but he's been good for England.

Sterling & Mount got dropped for playing poorly.
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But brought on when we needed a boost. Is that the reward for playing poorly?
 

The Purley King

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England played well, cannot fault the effort.
Small margins and genuinely inexplicable refereeing was the difference tonight.
England created more chances and could have won if things had been different.
For once I have no criticism of Southgate only that rashford should have been subbed on earlier.
One of those nights ………..
 

duffer

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jeff gurr said:
But brought on when we needed a boost. Is that the reward for playing poorly?
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He brought them on because he thought they might impact the game, not as a reward for anything. Mount did impact the game, Sterling didn't.

He brought on Rashford just 6 minutes later and he missed England's last chance. Maybe if he'd brought Maddison on instead he'd have not put it over.

I've as much of an issue with the timing of the subs (11 mins to go) with who came on. None of them had enough time to really do anything.
 

IceManFtw

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I’m struggling to understand why he took off Saka who was our best attacker and why he didn’t put on Trent when we desperately needed a goal; with 20 minutes to go? Say what you want about his defending but he is a world class attacker/crosser
 

DevilRed

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Dan_F said:
Fair enough. I’ve seen Lloris let in an absolute shit tonne of shots worse than that, but I guess we’ll never know. Maybe that 30mm height difference between Ramsdale and Pickford means Southgate fecked up.
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None of them are De Gea ;)

Bless his heart.
 

croadyman

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laughtersassassin said:
England played well but didn't actually look dangerous from open play at all. Created nothing in that regards.

And at the end of the day if you get two penalties but can't do anything from open play then you can have no complaints.
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Hard to stomach missing a penalty in normal time from someone usually so ruthless. What on earth made him send it skywards when kept it down with the first.
 

ManUtd1999

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The better team on the night lost.

The favorite team won.

France won without playing well and despite unexplainable defensive decisions. That’s a testament to how good they are. Previous World Cup winners lost early in the following cup (mostly at the group stage). France is in the SF. That tells you something about their qualities as a team. They are the best in the world.
 

Dan_F

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Zetrio2002 said:
Haha Grealish is too slow. Mount and Saka were right to be playing. They won penalties.

But England can't score for nuts. England is marginally out of form in my opinion and they deserve to lose. They have to depend on two penalties and the rest of the players are not very close to scoring. Portugal has far better chances to score in comparison.
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Did they? Playing against Morocco and not the world champions? I wonder how they managed that :boring:
 

Seij

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duffer said:
Who would you say he's stuck with that is out of form? Maguire perhaps but he's been good for England.

Sterling & Mount got dropped for playing poorly.
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Didn't Sterling get "dropped" because he had to return home?
 

Red Pumpkin

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jeff gurr said:
As a team England play without flair or imagination, Southgate stubbornly sticks with players even when they are out of form. He is ultra conservative & it reflects on the way the team plays.
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I agree with England playing without flair or imagination but that is not down to Southgate. For the past 25 years that I have watched England I can't remember one player with proper flair or imagination on a world level. I didn't watch Gascoigne so he is excluded. Perhaps Joe Cole was the most creative, him or Sterling but Raheem is more of a technical second striker. I can on the other hand count to at least 10 good box to box CM that England has produced.

Today England just lost to a better team. France can do it all, England can't.

And I knew as soon as England got the second penalty that it would be a miss if Kane stepped up again. Too much pressure, biggest rival, teammate goalkeeper and already took one penalty that to me was rather unconvincing. If Lloris had dived right he would have saved the first that was poorly placed. Henderson or Shaw should have taken the second.
 
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