Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Feeky_Magee said:
He was average, had he finished either of his two big chances (or the header that went narrowly over) we'd be praising him from getting into the positions. I thought he was at least involved, and a part of our dominant first 30, kind of disappeared after.

Do you deny he's been very good in 3 of his last 5 appearances, with the other two being city which I just discussed and Chelsea where he was on for 12 minutes and was grand? Do you deny that you made up your recollection of him being shit against Chelsea when he was only a late sub?

The irony is astounding, you're criticising me for "using a few examples as justification", when you're picking out two under-par performances in what has been yet another good spell for him, in the limited chances position that apparently so destroyed Carlos Tévez.
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I admit he didn't start versus Chelsea, hands up. But I will say this;

He was crap against Wolves.
He was dropped for City, Wigan and Chelsea.
He was crap versus Liverpool.
He scored versus Bolton coming on as sub (again dropped).
He did nothing of note against West Ham apart from one run late on when he hit a shot against Green.
He scored versus Fulham but did little else in a ordinary performance.
Dropped for Newcastle (apparently injured).
Dropped for Everton (apparently injured).

No, I won't say he's been very good in three of the last five games because against Bolton, he scored yes but did nothing else and was average versus Fulham apart from a tidy finish so I might stretch it to say he was good in these two games for your sake but not 'very' good, no.
If you like, I can go back further to earlier in the season and tell you which games he was good or not good in?
 
Shimo said:
Like I said, you'll find some argument when it comes to him - favorite one being well he's score 15 of his goals in 5 games. Never mind in 2 of those games 5 games every one of those goals was needed in securing 3 points. He's played well in several of the games he hasn't scored in as well even if results haven't gone our way.

Just accept like the rest of us have - when it comes to Berba, unless he becomes Messi, it doesn't matter what he does - you'll always look for an angle to discount his worth to the team.
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No I won't, I was pleased he scored those fifteen goals in five games but the problem is he hasn't been able to maintain a fraction of that form, obviously you can't average three goals per game continuously but he's not been able to manage any sort of decent form since late January and has only scored two goals (one a winner versus Bolton, the other a goal against Fulham in a regulation 2-0 average win) since then.
I will always credit his worth to the team when he attributes to the team, but I can only see his presence detracting the team when he isn't the right fit mentally or physically, especially when he never plays the big games and when you play for Man United, you're expected to play several big games each year.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I admit he didn't start versus Chelsea, hands up. But I will say this;

He was crap against Wolves.
He was dropped for City, Wigan and Chelsea.
He was crap versus Liverpool.
He scored versus Bolton coming on as sub (again dropped).
He did nothing of note against West Ham apart from one run late on when he hit a shot against Green.
He scored versus Fulham but did little else in a ordinary performance.
Dropped for Newcastle (apparently injured).
Dropped for Everton (apparently injured).

No, I won't say he's been very good in three of the last five games because against Bolton, he scored yes but did nothing else and was average versus Fulham apart from a tidy finish so I might stretch it to say he was good in these two games for your sake but not 'very' good, no.
If you like, I can go back further to earlier in the season and tell you which games he was good or not good in?
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Well okay, "very good" was probably a stretch, but given that you've repeatedly said that he doesn't score at the business end, I'd take goals > performance at this stage.

Nothing of note against West Ham? He was fecking excellent, crucial in us retaining possession up the park and getting a platform on which to attack them in the last 25, a platform on which Wayne Rooney excelled on.

Also, he's contributed in matches you've simply listed him as being dropped for. He came on versus city at 1-1 and played a part in the move that brought the winner. He came on at 2-0 up at Wigan and unselfishly assisted the third as we won 4-0.

Since this mythical cut-off point in late January that you introduced because he scored 5 in 2 right before it, he's had 4 starts and 7 substitute appearances, scored 2 potentially crucial goals, generally played well and had a few poor ones... like most footballers at our club actually.

Unluckily for him, probably the two form footballers at the club are the two playing in generally the same position as him. Hey ho, that's the way it goes. He's been in our top 3 performers this season, and without him we may not have (what will likely be) an emotional number 19. If you can't salute him for that, it's a bit sad really.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I admit he didn't start versus Chelsea, hands up. But I will say this;

He was crap against Wolves.
He was dropped for City, Wigan and Chelsea.
He was crap versus Liverpool.
He scored versus Bolton coming on as sub (again dropped).
He did nothing of note against West Ham apart from one run late on when he hit a shot against Green.
He scored versus Fulham but did little else in a ordinary performance.
Dropped for Newcastle (apparently injured).
Dropped for Everton (apparently injured).

No, I won't say he's been very good in three of the last five games because against Bolton, he scored yes but did nothing else and was average versus Fulham apart from a tidy finish so I might stretch it to say he was good in these two games for your sake but not 'very' good, no.
If you like, I can go back further to earlier in the season and tell you which games he was good or not good in?
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Do you sit around watching games with other mates who just really don't like Berbatov?

It's a bit mental how critical you are of him - if he scores you mention he was ordinary and dropped, whereas if it was Chicharito it'd be 'did what we needed him to do, saviour, those are the goals that win you titles' and 'supersub'.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I admit he didn't start versus Chelsea, hands up. But I will say this;

He was crap against Wolves.
He was dropped for City, Wigan and Chelsea.
He was crap versus Liverpool.
He scored versus Bolton coming on as sub (again dropped).
He did nothing of note against West Ham apart from one run late on when he hit a shot against Green.
He scored versus Fulham but did little else in a ordinary performance.
Dropped for Newcastle (apparently injured).
Dropped for Everton (apparently injured).

No, I won't say he's been very good in three of the last five games because against Bolton, he scored yes but did nothing else and was average versus Fulham apart from a tidy finish so I might stretch it to say he was good in these two games for your sake but not 'very' good, no.
If you like, I can go back further to earlier in the season and tell you which games he was good or not good in?
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Pathetic.
 
Brwned said:
Do you sit around watching games with other mates who just really don't like Berbatov?

It's a bit mental how critical you are of him - if he scores you mention he was ordinary and dropped, whereas if it was Chicharito it'd be 'did what we needed him to do, saviour, those are the goals that win you titles' and 'supersub'.
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Was he good? Was he incredibly brilliant in those games?
No, so shut up...
 
Feeky_Magee said:
Nothing of note against West Ham? He was fecking excellent, crucial in us retaining possession up the park and getting a platform on which to attack them in the last 25, a platform on which Wayne Rooney excelled

Since this mythical cut-off point in late January that you introduced because he scored 5 in 2 right before it, he's had 4 starts and 7 substitute appearances, scored 2 potentially crucial goals, generally played well and had a few poor ones... like most footballers at our club actually.

Unluckily for him, probably the two form footballers at the club are the two playing in generally the same position as him. Hey ho, that's the way it goes. He's been in our top 3 performers this season, and without him we may not have (what will likely be) an emotional number 19. If you can't salute him for that, it's a bit sad really.
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He's had a good number of good games but a good number of bad games but you can't admit this.
 
I think your game-to-game evaluation of him is extremely harsh, and I would call it into question given that you don't seem to remember individual performances all that well.

He's arguably had more good games than anyone in the squad. He's had bad games, of course, I don't think they're in any way equivocal to the number of good/excellent games as you seem to be suggesting.
 
Feeky_Magee said:
I think your game-to-game evaluation of him is extremely harsh, and I would call it into question given that you don't seem to remember individual performances all that well.

He's arguably had more good games than anyone in the squad. He's had bad games, of course, I don't think they're in any way equivocal to the number of good/excellent games as you seem to be suggesting.
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Van Der Sar
Vidic
Smalling
Nani
Hernandez

The above have all had better OVERALL seasons than Berbatov in my opinion and that's not being biased or harsh.
Berbatov was brilliant in the early part of the season then suffered a blip circa October, he then had half a dozen games late Dec to late Jan where he played really, really well and since then has again been lackluster.
That's my take on him and I won't change this opinion because that's how he's been.
 
It shouldn't be forgotten that he is more than likely to win the golden boot this season... despite all his flaws, that's is nothing to be sneezed at
 
Not in the Squad for the Schalke match.
 
I think his only chance of starting another game this season is if we wrap the league up early.
 
KM said:
Not in the Squad for the Schalke match.
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Doesn't need to be. We'll play a 4-5-1 anyway and this is not as important as the next three big games coming up, Arsenal, Chelsea and Schalke at home.

We've 2 strikers who can play the lone role without any bother (Owen and Hernandez) and I'm expecting to see Owen in the mix somewhere, especially after his role as lone striker against Wolfsburg last season.
 
What's the latest on his contract situation?

Surely if he doesn't sign and we get an offer end of the season would be the best time to cash in on him (even though it sounds wrong, I doubt Berba will ever score more goals for us in a season then he has this season).

15 million might just be a good offer on a striker that's in his 30's and seemingly now #3 in the pecking order.
 
Devilton said:
What's the latest on his contract situation?

Surely if he doesn't sign and we get an offer end of the season would be the best time to cash in on him (even though it sounds wrong, I doubt Berba will ever score more goals for us in a season then he has this season).

15 million might just be a good offer on a striker that's in his 30's and seemingly now #3 in the pecking order.
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We'll never get £15m for him...£12m max
 
His game hardly relies on pace so I see no reason why a club couldn't get a good 4 years out of him...£15million would be possible if there was interest from several parties.

I don't think we'll sell him though.
 
Number7 said:
His game hardly relies on pace so I see no reason why a club couldn't get a good 4 years out of him...£15million would be possible if there was interest from several parties.

I don't think we'll sell him though.
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Yes, but will he accept being the striker that Fergie doesn't really trust in the big games? And do we keep him if offers of 10-15 million do come after his prolific summer knowing he will probably not score as many goals next year (especially when you figure that either Welbeck or Kiko will soon also need to get a good chunk of games lest their development gets stalled).

my question is - Is Berba really a player we see retiring in United colors? And if not, then surely this summer has to be best time to maximize the return on the sizable investment we've made on him.
 
Scoreboard Red said:
I heard Owen was rubbish these days because his pace was gone.
Looked lively enough for me on Saturday.
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There's no comparison.

Berba has cost us a lot, Owen has cost us nothing.

Owen also hasn't played much this year, surely you don't expect a 30 million pound striker to just sit on the bench most of the time do you? Owen has been lively because he's itching for games and he was playing against the team he supported as a kid (Everton). I doubt Berba will be content to play under 10 games next year like Owen has this season (because he's desperate to win the title)
 
Devilton said:
There's no comparison.

Berba has cost us a lot, Owen has cost us nothing.

Owen also hasn't played much this year, surely you don't expect a 30 million pound striker to just sit on the bench most of the time do you? Owen has been lively because he's itching for games and he was playing against the team he supported as a kid (Everton). I doubt Berba will be content to play under 10 games next year like Owen has this season (because he's desperate to win the title)
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Nah I'm not comparing them, I'm saying people have written off Owen because he's lost his pace apparently, if that's true then he can still rely on his exceptional positioning and finishing as per Raul has made the best of.
Unfortunately we can't rely on his fitness...
 
Who cares if a player is over 30.

Drogba will be able to play well into his mid thirties because he is a beast and technically gifted with the ball.

Berbatov can too. He doesn't rely on pace at all but he can actually beat his man simply because he is so gifted with the ball.

The focus on youth and young phenoms is getting old. Raul, Scholes and Giggs have showed me that if you look after yourself, are passionate about football and if you possess great skill you can keep playing and playing at a high level.

Berbatov has at least 4 good years left and I would like it if he spent it with United as a strikeforce of Rooney, Hernendez, Berbatov, and Welbeck is feckin fantastic.
 
I feel bad for Berbatov. He's had an amazing season and is a big part of why we're top of the league, but he's gotten pushed aside now that Rooney has sorted himself out. Berba was motivated and playing really well until he got benched in January/February. I understand why, but it is still sad to see him in the situation after really coming good this year.
 
Devilton said:
What's the latest on his contract situation?

Surely if he doesn't sign and we get an offer end of the season would be the best time to cash in on him (even though it sounds wrong, I doubt Berba will ever score more goals for us in a season then he has this season).

15 million might just be a good offer on a striker that's in his 30's and seemingly now #3 in the pecking order.
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I doubt any team would pay that with his age and contract. Really if we were ever going to sell him, last summer would have made a lot more sense financially. Now whatever we get for him is going to be a small amount compared to what it would take to replace him with just as good or better number 3. So if he's happy enough with his current role, why wouldnt we keep him?
 
Ekeke said:
I doubt any team would pay that with his age and contract. Really if we were ever going to sell him, last summer would have made a lot more sense financially. Now whatever we get for him is going to be a small amount compared to what it would take to replace him with just as good or better number 3. So if he's happy enough with his current role, why wouldnt we keep him?
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I think that might be the problem, whether or not he is happy playing 3rd fiddle. Particularly since it seems that Fergie doesn't trust him in the big games (or that he doesn't generally have a huge impact from the bench).

In terms of his price, we might get a bid of c. £15m. He is 30 but his style isn't that of a player which as soon as their pace/power go their game will crash. I feel that Berbatov could be an identical player in five years as he is now, certainly four. Would be a top signing for someone in Italy or Germany (or even a swap deal with Villa/Everton, if Berbatov wanted to be first choice that is and didn't demand crazy wages).
 
RedDevilCanuck said:
Who cares if a player is over 30.

Drogba will be able to play well into his mid thirties because he is a beast and technically gifted with the ball.

Berbatov can too. He doesn't rely on pace at all but he can actually beat his man simply because he is so gifted with the ball.

The focus on youth and young phenoms is getting old. Raul, Scholes and Giggs have showed me that if you look after yourself, are passionate about football and if you possess great skill you can keep playing and playing at a high level.

Berbatov has at least 4 good years left and I would like it if he spent it with United as a strikeforce of Rooney, Hernendez, Berbatov, and Welbeck is feckin fantastic.
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I dont remember seeing too many photos of them lads with ciggies hanging out of their mouths though. I really like berbatov, but i can't see him as the long term off the bench option. I don't feel he's effective enough off the bench and I don't see him as being too happy to play that role. He could be moving on!
 
irwinwastheking said:
I dont remember seeing too many photos of them lads with ciggies hanging out of their mouths though. I really like berbatov, but i can't see him as the long term off the bench option. I don't feel he's effective enough off the bench and I don't see him as being too happy to play that role. He could be moving on!
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What about him makes you think he won't be okay with not being a every game player at United? Haven't seen any signs of discontent from him and usually says the right things in interviews.

As for ciggies - well he isn't one to run around like a Tasmanian devil so not sure if that is really going to stop him from playing a while. Don't see any fitness issues with him on the field and seeing a few pics of him having a smoke doesn't make him a chain smoker and bit of a reach to say he'll have fitness issues later in life because we've seen a few pics.
 
Shimo said:
What about him makes you think he won't be okay with not being a every game player at United? Haven't seen any signs of discontent from him and usually says the right things in interviews.

As for ciggies - well he isn't one to run around like a Tasmanian devil so not sure if that is really going to stop him from playing a while. Don't see any fitness issues with him on the field and seeing a few pics of him having a smoke doesn't make him a chain smoker and bit of a reach to say he'll have fitness issues later in life because we've seen a few pics.
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I don't see him not being an every game player. Unfortunatly I see him being a very occasional starter the way things are panning out with Roo and Chico. I feel that he's to good a player to have left sitting on the bench coming up to the twilight of his career, and if he's any sort of a man he'll feel that way too.

If only Fergie could find a system he was happy with that could accomodate the three of them. Rooney playing as an attacking midfielder with Berba sitting just behind Chico threading balls through to him. I'd love to give this a go from the start of a few games to see how it goes.

With regards the ciggies. I hope he's not still smoking cos the things are a curse (I know), You might be right though witht hem not really effecting him due to his type of game.
 
For the first time I'm starting to believe he might leave in the summer simply because he is 3rd choice behind Rooney and Hernandez. Similar to how RVN ended up behind Rooney and Saha and left instead of warming the bench at age 30.
 
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