I obviously confused you by modifying my position to agree with you that in Berabatov's case the stat wasn't without merit.
Dimitar Berbatov
- Thread starter Diver
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Exactly, Ronaldo is no way a winger anymore. He is a forward, his performances in the euros absolutely compounded this fact. In the wide areas he rarely beats his man and puts in a ball but through the middle he can go past players and looks to shoot all the time.
Anyway, Berbatov is a class act.
Mmmm, yeah sounds right. Must've got my wires crossed.
I know he had one massive season with assists, though I thought that was 05/06. I need to get my bearing. My point was though, his role has changed and thus his assist count has too.
But then you can apply that logic to any player unless you watch their games in full, which I tend to d owith Spurs as much as possible as you get the most entertaining games in the league when Spurs are involved (More often than not)
And on the subject of Ronaldo's assists, you have to take note that Rooney has been absolutely woeful with his finishing and Ronaldo's assists tally would be a lot higher had Rooney not wasted so many chances this season.
The fact is that of all of the players we talk about as prospective targets on here, he is the only one we actually know Fergie loves as a player and has actively pursued. People claiming anyone thinking he is a good player or may end up here is using flawed logic, or that he has many negatives and would not fit in to the team amuses me greatly.
Flavour of the month and no amount of logic will change that? Someone should tell Fergie this as well, he has been wasting his time pursuing him over the last three years.
People also know the stance you took on David Villa after a few games by the way which is just as bad as these people you talk of. Berbatov plays in the premiership every week.
By experience I meant more footballing 'nouse' than literal history.
Winning the CL won't suddenly change Rooney and Tevez.
We need someone who remains calm and composed, reads the situation, and doesn't get flustered.
Fair enough.
I think we should go like for like with Saha - only look for someone with a better finish obviously. Nobody out there who meets that criteria? Fine.
There are certain things we could drop from that type of player. Pace and the will and want to get in behind the defence are the two things I personally wouldnt drop.
So players of that ilk are : Eto'o and Villa. Those are the only two examples I can think of top class versions of the kind of player I'd want. But then again, I havent been scouting the world. And of course, I wouldnt insist we sign a top quality version either. Just someone with potential and the right game (as above). To be fair, Campbell could turn out this kind of player. But a long time from now. Not next season and doubtfully the one after. He has a bit of potential though.
Really? I suppose you have some quotes to back this up? Last time we bid for Berbatov was when he was a Leverkusen player. We've reportedly had bids for several other players, some being strikers, since then. So chances are he hasnt exactly been waiting for Berbatov.
i was hoping this would be in the manchester united forum ffs.....
It is common knowledge that he likes him as a player and has admired him all that time, I dont have to find quotes. There has also been "reports" of renewed bids along with these "reports" of making bids for other players which you talk of.
I did not actually say he has been waiting for him and what i said and you quoted backs up the point I was making to Sam as does what you said about bidding for him at Leverkeusen. So therefore i dont know why you quoted me, especially when I have over talked the Berbatov thing with you.
There have been reports that we were going to bid, no reports that we actually bid. Speculation based on the fact that A) We bid for him in the past (at his former club) and B) He's a talented player lots of people like to watch.
If we did actually bid for him, we'd have heard about it by now.
We've just been linked with him a lot because hes a good player. We've also been linked with making moves for Willy Sagnol for more or less every summer for the past 5 years. It doesnt mean we've actually bid for him.
The reason I bring it up is its distorted. Just because in the papers for every transfer window for the past 2 years, there have been reports we're going to bid for Berbatov, doesn't mean we actually made bids.
On the other hand, some of those other strikers we were linked with, we have quotes from people at the clubs saying we bid a certain amount for them. I
t's not so much speculation, as claims from a representative at the club. Either that person is lying or somehow misquoted, but its more than "The Sun understands Sir Alex Ferguson has identified Berbatov as his man and will make a mega-bid of £30 million in the next 2 weeks."
Ekeke sweet jesus, seriously, did you actually read what i wrote or what?
You originally quoted "Flavour of the month and no amount of logic will change that? Someone should tell Fergie this as well, he has been wasting his time pursuing him over the last three years." Did we not bid for him at Leverkeusen and has Fergie not expressed admiration for him outside the span of a month? Yes we did and yes he has. It seems you are being pedantic and focusing on my use of the word pursuing, taking it as me saying he has made bids every two minutes. Do I think Sam should be making flavour of the months claims when he did something similar with Villa? No, personally I dont. Did I claim we have made official bids for him? No I did not. Even though it has been strongly rumoured at times since, in fact it was you who used supposed "reports" of bidding for other players in the newspapers as part or your argument.
You obviously did not read what I said and just jumped in because the points you have made and claims of newspaper reports etc do not relate to what I actually said or change my viewpoint. Strange.
You originally quoted "Flavour of the month and no amount of logic will change that? Someone should tell Fergie this as well, he has been wasting his time pursuing him over the last three years." Did we not bid for him at Leverkeusen and has Fergie not expressed admiration for him outside the span of a month? Yes we did and yes he has. It seems you are being pedantic and focusing on my use of the word pursuing, taking it as me saying he has made bids every two minutes. Do I think Sam should be making flavour of the months claims when he did something similar with Villa? No, personally I dont. Did I claim we have made official bids for him? No I did not. Even though it has been strongly rumoured at times since, in fact it was you who used supposed "reports" of bidding for other players in the newspapers as part or your argument.
You obviously did not read what I said and just jumped in because the points you have made and claims of newspaper reports etc do not relate to what I actually said or change my viewpoint. Strange.
Just because he has said hes a good player doesnt mean we've been persuing him for 3 years. Ferguson speaks about lots of players. I could tell you myself that he's a good player, it doesnt mean I want us to sign him. And we've had no bids. No people come out and say "United have bid £30 million" or whatever for him, like we have had from people at other clubs - even if they were making it up, in which case we'd probably rubbish their claims.
"It seems you are being pedantic and focusing on my use of the word pursuing, taking it as me saying he has made bids every two minutes."
My last post has been edited since.
He hasnt made bids since he joined Spurs. 2 minutes or 2 seasons. Its up to you.
I have not once said he has made bids for him at Spurs and neither me or you knows whether he has or not. Still, your rolling your eyes when everything you talked about in terms of what I said has little foundation. Pathetic.He hasnt made bids since he joined Spurs. 2 minutes or 2 seasons. Its up to you.
Sorry, you're suggesting that I think you are saying he's made bids every 2 minutes. Its 2 seasons. This is all.
Yes Ekeke, because that was not tongue in cheek or a phrase people commonly use at all... I seriously think Fergie has been faxing Spurs every two minutes upping his bid by 1p for the last two seasons 
However you want to put it, we have not made any official bid for him while he's been at Spurs. We've not even had Spurs respresentatives named or un named claiming we've made bids of such and such an amount, correctly or lying - like we've had claims from people over other players, including strikers. And therefore, no... SAF hasnt been "wasting his time" chasing after him for 3 years. We put little time and effort into the first bid seemingly and we lost him to Spurs. Since then we've signed another creative striker on a loan basis.Yes Ekeke, because that was not tongue in cheek or a phrase people commonly use at all... I seriously think Fergie has been faxing Spurs every two minutes upping his bid by 1p for the last two seasons.
He's improved as a player since then, but also changes his style as a player since then and I'm sure SAF is aware of his quality on the ball. But I'm sure he has a huge list of people who's skill he admires and that doesnt mean we'll be signing them or even want to sign them. We'll have to just wait and see if he bids for him this summer, which is possible - the same as its possible we could be bidding for almost any player this summer.
Ekeke, you seem like a decent poster at times but seriously just read what I say properly or dont quote me. I have not once said we have made an official bid since Leverkeusen and my original post was quite clear. Ahhh those "unknown Spurs representatives" I always wait on them to confirm Fergies activity rumours as you do! I have already explained why I said the stuff in response to the flavour of the month comment and will not keep repeating myself because you cant read and jump in head first. You also dont know how much effort we have put into him or if bids have been made neither do I. All I know, is Fergie has continually showed admiration for him in a certain way and anyone who has followed the great man knows what this usually means. Just because you think he is similar to Tevez and Rooney and is "creative" does not mean he would not be interested in him anymore.
It's impossible to argue with somebody that plays on words - don't waste your precious time or energy.
Anyways...
I personally think that Berbatov is one of the worlds top strikers. It has nothing to do with www.youtube.com compilatons or the occasional goal that i have seen on Match of the day; more that i am compromised by masses of Spurs fans at my local who believe it so and the games that i tend watch with them. I think it is silly to label a group of people, reduce their arguments and paint them in a most simplistic way. Every single thread regarding Berbatov has ended in spectacular fashion - with plenty of name calling and defamation, i vote to talk like the civilised gentlemen that we are or are supposed to be.
Anyways...
There have been many reports linking Fergie with bids for Berbatov, not all can be taken as fact, but there is plenty to suggest that Ferguson is well aware of him as a player and would be interested (how much we don't know) if he became available. Nobody has interviews or clips but i do know that it has been discussed and made apparent that Fergus rates him as a player.
Berbatov has sparked off a number of polarized opinions - all equally valid. Time will tell whether we are stepping up our efforts to sign him, it will also prove somebody or some people; correct. This does not necessarily flatter the logic of either group or party involved in debate, Fergie could well be wrong if he wasn't to go for Berbatov - he could well be right.
Basically...
I see Berbatov as a highly talented player who is very much in the market for a new club. The foundation of any deal will be based on how much Spurs want for him, somewhere in the region of 25-30 million pounds has been touted and will more than likely be the price that he sails for.
Who will pay this amount of money for Berbatov?
My answer would be three clubs: Us, Barcelona and Chelsea. My tip would be that he will end up at one of the first two mentioned - i don't know who. Chelseas interest is yet to have been registered, but i would expect Scolari to favour the latin players initially - people who he has worked with and has an in depth knowlege of. As for us and Barcelona, as i have said before; time will tell.
Anyways...
I personally think that Berbatov is one of the worlds top strikers. It has nothing to do with www.youtube.com compilatons or the occasional goal that i have seen on Match of the day; more that i am compromised by masses of Spurs fans at my local who believe it so and the games that i tend watch with them. I think it is silly to label a group of people, reduce their arguments and paint them in a most simplistic way. Every single thread regarding Berbatov has ended in spectacular fashion - with plenty of name calling and defamation, i vote to talk like the civilised gentlemen that we are or are supposed to be.
Anyways...
There have been many reports linking Fergie with bids for Berbatov, not all can be taken as fact, but there is plenty to suggest that Ferguson is well aware of him as a player and would be interested (how much we don't know) if he became available. Nobody has interviews or clips but i do know that it has been discussed and made apparent that Fergus rates him as a player.
Berbatov has sparked off a number of polarized opinions - all equally valid. Time will tell whether we are stepping up our efforts to sign him, it will also prove somebody or some people; correct. This does not necessarily flatter the logic of either group or party involved in debate, Fergie could well be wrong if he wasn't to go for Berbatov - he could well be right.
Basically...
I see Berbatov as a highly talented player who is very much in the market for a new club. The foundation of any deal will be based on how much Spurs want for him, somewhere in the region of 25-30 million pounds has been touted and will more than likely be the price that he sails for.
Who will pay this amount of money for Berbatov?
My answer would be three clubs: Us, Barcelona and Chelsea. My tip would be that he will end up at one of the first two mentioned - i don't know who. Chelseas interest is yet to have been registered, but i would expect Scolari to favour the latin players initially - people who he has worked with and has an in depth knowlege of. As for us and Barcelona, as i have said before; time will tell.
If anything, there has been very little fuss over Berbatov this summer. The strikers that have been linked with moves away are Adebayor, Ronaldo and Villa. We should exploit this to go in under the radar and try and tie up a deal for Berbatov and avoid some of the ridiculous inflation of the European Championships.
Spurs have got submarine nets and little scuba fellas with limpet mines protecting their prize asset. Plus there's battleship Barca waiting out in the harbour to start shelling when they realise that HMS Adebayor has sailed.
Not to mention anti-torpedo torpedos and a neat little thingy for detecting whisky fumes.
Ekeke you seem to talk so much shit, and enjoy doing it, you have already said the same things in the othyer berbatov thread and have coninued to display such ignorance, not listening to a thing anyone actually says, being pedantic and spouting out shit about berbatov when its clear you havent seen him play much.
At the end of the day, we only have rooney and tevez as strikers, we need at least a 3rd striker, and manucho does not count because he is totally unproven so we should have no expectations from him. If berbatov did came ferguson could keep them all happy with rotation im confident of that, and when you speak about them not being able to play together, purely based on the fact they are not the fastest players out there it makes you look even more stupid and stuck in your ways. He would add something different to what we already have, height, physical presence, great finisher, creates things out of nothing, experienced and very composed, plays at his own pace and is very comfortable at leading the line of coming deep. so he would offer something different and that is exactly what we needed last season, so which ever way you look at it signing him would improve us.
At the end of the day, we only have rooney and tevez as strikers, we need at least a 3rd striker, and manucho does not count because he is totally unproven so we should have no expectations from him. If berbatov did came ferguson could keep them all happy with rotation im confident of that, and when you speak about them not being able to play together, purely based on the fact they are not the fastest players out there it makes you look even more stupid and stuck in your ways. He would add something different to what we already have, height, physical presence, great finisher, creates things out of nothing, experienced and very composed, plays at his own pace and is very comfortable at leading the line of coming deep. so he would offer something different and that is exactly what we needed last season, so which ever way you look at it signing him would improve us.
The following are examples of why I questioned that this was being discussed because he is the flavour of the month and does not fit into our team outside of the fact we bid at Leverkeusen. The interest has been long standing, stop going off on this Berbatov issue like a dog with a bone as you usually do because your argument this time has little substance and is based on you misconstruing my use of the word pursued. Leave it at that.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...ould-wreck-united-s-cup-dream-86908-20298600/
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=84560
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...1008485_berbatov_reveals_reds_admiration.html
Just to throw another quote into the pot - albeit from last September:
“Am I happy here? What do you think? Loyalty is important to me and there is a debt to be repaid. Spurs wanted me no matter what - where were these other clubs then? If I leave it's because I'm no longer wanted. I won't ask for a move. I'm very settled here.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ov-insists-Ill-leave-Tottenham-Im-wanted.html
Of course things can change and I think he's more likely to go than stay .... but you never quite know. Berbatov is a complex character and not as predictable as many other players.
Agreed, I dont see it as a dead cert that he would leave Spurs either or that here would be his final destination. I was just trying to show why the percieved interest always comes about. He also says "No, I haven't. (Had contact) The club (Spurs) gives me everything I need to feel nice." in the article you quoted. The quote from his agent about a bid comes at a later date.
Last season he had 20 assists. More than any other player in our team.
He has a rather poor assist return over the last two seasons. The season before he had a fair few.
I'm assuming this is to do with his role's development.
You don't know that. It would be fairly stupid for SAF to say that we made a bid for him last summer though if we are still pursuing him. It is common knowledge to most people that we have ben following him closer than most, you can pass that off as newspaper bollocks if you want but it is clear to nearly everyone else that that is the case.He hasnt made bids since he joined Spurs. 2 minutes or 2 seasons. Its up to you.
Purely because you want it to be true. And so do a lot of people. So they will read into it what they want to. The majority seem to want him to come so they will agree.
Keyzer, you clearly missed the point with my posts. I'll chat to you another time perhaps when you are more reasonable.
Well you just blew him out the water
blind brick wall
Or because you don't want it to be true.
exactly, just look at the quotes keyze put forward and he conveniently managed to ignore them
What a load of bollocks.
I hope we sign him, he's cocky as feck, one of the most skillful bastards I've seen in a long time, composed as a cucumber on ice, and I'm loudly confident that the cnut would bang in 30 a season in a United shirt.
You lot should stop over-analysing and see the facts. He's pure class.
I hope we sign him, he's cocky as feck, one of the most skillful bastards I've seen in a long time, composed as a cucumber on ice, and I'm loudly confident that the cnut would bang in 30 a season in a United shirt.
You lot should stop over-analysing and see the facts. He's pure class.
He just doesn't like him, but tries to deny it by saying "I think he's a great player but just not what we need..." because he has an obsession with David Villa. Fair enough though, I'd put Villa ahead of him in terms of ability but Berbatov is the more suitable option.
Exactly? Thats my point. Its not proven. Its just about which side of the fence you're on. We havent made any official bids, so to say we've been chasing someone for 3 years is entirely inaccurate. There's no proof and whereas when we've been linked with bids for other players, people from their club have confirmed certain bids, we have not had that with Berbatov.
The people who want him to come will say we've been after him, those who dont want him will say no we haven't. But proof is in favour of us not actually being after him.
Where have I said "We must sign Villa" ? I've said entirely the opposite, actually.
And whereas its your opinion Berbatov is more suited, mine is that the other player is. You can't state that as a fact because its entirely debatable. 
This is soon to be as retarded as the Hargreaves thread, with certain people not being able to take a single word against a certain player just because they want them signed.There is no proof of anything, but it is not mere speculation either.
So wait, you don't want us to sign Villa? I know it's entirely debatable. I'm open to all of Berbatov's flaws, as I am to Villa's benefits. You are the one who wrote a few points on all of Berbatov's flaws and nothing of what he brings to our team, whereas I have constantly said how Villa would improve us.Where have I said "We must sign Villa" ? I've said entirely the opposite, actually.
You think everyone else is being entirely biased when really you need to be a bit more objective. I'd be more than happy if we got Berbatov or Villa.