The lads having a tough time and its not really working for him this season but give him a chance. People seem to forget how Fred was in his first season. Many saying he was not suited and a should be sold, now look. Im sure it would take many people time to settle if up sticks and moved countrys to work. Think the time to make a judgement will be after his second season, hopefully he gets one.
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After that performance I really cannot see Ole using him in the near future and I struggle to see what he is good at.
It is not that long ago that Tielemans was available at about the same price and age and we were not interested and he is a much better player.
Who researches these players before we buy them because whoever they are they need to be held accountable.
It is not that long ago that Tielemans was available at about the same price and age and we were not interested and he is a much better player.
Who researches these players before we buy them because whoever they are they need to be held accountable.
I find it quite amusing how some members talk about patience with VDB. I'm very patient when it concerns young players that show potential in every minute they play, even if they don't perform top notch yet. The thing with this bloke is, I just don't see it, at all. There are no qualities in his play that I rate until now and we're talking about a + 40 million quid signing in a key position. Even if you're mother Teresa, your patience must be running if you saw his last performances.
I agree with this. Once he came on nearly every cross or shot or pass in to the box - you could see VDB at the end of it waiting for it but the pass never fully came through.
If the players one day are able to pick him out then he will be much better.
This is why I feel like a poacher striker like Haaland will actually help VDB in positioning and his style of play because Haaland has to be picked out with a pass whilst someone like VDB would end up running in to a free space that has to be picked up by the creator. Right now our front 3 primarily create chances for themselves by dribbling or by counterattacks which doesnt suit VDB. (Rashford, Martial, Greenwood)
The one thing I also hope is that VDB has played as a LAM, CAM, SS and CM/CDM.
I hope Ole is getting him used to all these different positions bit by bit in a new team before he believes he can unleash him as a versatile but composed player.
the discussion here seems to suggest that he lost the ball every time he got it. he was ok, anonymous, he's been better in previous games. i have zero faith in him as a pogba replacement but he's not been nearly as shocking as is made out, and could be ok in a 4-3-3.
Thing is, everything I've seen of Donny in the past (and also in the limited minutes we've seen him in our shirt) suggests to me that he should be the player that is giving the pass, not the player we saw last night where he was often furthest forwards for us waiting to receive a pass.
What I mean by "Assert himself" is to take command of the move, or demand the ball from the midfielders/fullbacks, show yourself more for a pass, anything, but again, i feel he needs just more time to actually get the team understand him.
I am still in the camp of those who think DVB will come good for United, I am 100% confident, once he really gels well with the team and the team gets used to him, he will be excellent.
Plays completely different role to where Donny has been played though.
I was v keen for Tielemans and was confused we weren’t interested given he was cheap as well. I guess you have to factor in Ole’s style which probably wouldn’t suit technical CM players as much as other teams and he loves a defensively aggressive double pivot - can see us trying for someone like Loftus Cheek in the summer. Makes him convincing VdB to come all the weirder.
I don't know how the fallacy was born that VDB performs well in the Dutch national team, but a) he hasn't played an awful lot (17 matches in total since 2017, only 8 of them of them in the starting eleven) b) his prospects of becoming starting eleven are pretty gloomy, now that Wijnaldum and De Jong are a no-brainer in the squad, and the third position often goes to Marten de Roon or Gravenberch c) the times he did play he was fairly poor to be honest.
Since I've got some Dutch blood running through the Mom's side of the family I watch matches of the Dutch NT regularly and I'd love to say it's different and confirm your statement that he's got quality that only works well in a certain playing style, but VDB has been as anonymous there as he is in our shirt.
Right now there are only a couple of options
1. Ole did not really want him at all and this was a "Ed signing"
2. Ole did want him, but he was poorly scouted and/or Ole did not do his homwwork and/or VdB himself have been awful in training
3. He was brought in purely as a backup to Bruno
Honestly, we should just sell him this summer and invest the money elsewhere.
1. Ole did not really want him at all and this was a "Ed signing"
2. Ole did want him, but he was poorly scouted and/or Ole did not do his homwwork and/or VdB himself have been awful in training
3. He was brought in purely as a backup to Bruno
Honestly, we should just sell him this summer and invest the money elsewhere.
My feelings too. If we were hoping to find our Pogba replacement in him then we've got it badly wrong. I honestly still don't think I've seen enough of him to judge if he's got a future here. Most of our team has undergone some good improvements under Solskjaer so I imagine van de Beek will at some point too.
OGS has repeatedly said that Donny is a player that makes smart runs into the box (which he did repeatedly yesterday), so would think Ole would think otherwise and bought him much because of that specific attribute.
Fred says hi.
He can make smart runs into the box from any position though. For me unless he can find his way into this team as a box to box midfielder he won't make it here
This. People too quick to right him off.
niceAgree with this, the vibes in getting
Then again we've seen people call Scott, Fred, lindelof nothing players
And have wanted shaw gone too
It was a shame he didn't get on the ball more yesterday and I think that's on him.
I cant say he's been shocking as ,for him to be that, he atleast needs to get on the ball.
He's the invisible man.
He's the invisible man.
Now there's an exciting midfield prospect. Gravenbergh looks brilliant, especially for his age.
Could be, let's hope so, but face it, 8 out of 10 when someone doesn't show a mere glimpse of his quality in his first 7 months, it won't come out at a later stage either.
Point with VDB is not necessarily that he's horrid with constantly making the wrong choices or just plain blunders, he's just invisible. And that strikes me as even more alarming.
@KirkDuyt. Agree, promising player. I do have the idea that talents at Ajax are a bit overpriced in general in comparison to Feyenoord/PSV/AZ, don't know how you see that as a native Dutchy. Us paying this money for VDB who had a mediocre season at best at Ajax last year is the best example of that.
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I agree with the posters who say he's being ignored a lot. I feel like the only way a Dutch player can enter our dressing room with some status is if he shines at an international tournament. Goes to show how big the gap is between the Eredevisie and the Prem. Pröpper was a goal scoring gem in the Eredivisie and he's on the bench.at Brighton with only two goals in 100+ games. Depay would probably have been a solid player for us now, but he needed too much time which he (rightfully) did not get. Those were easily the top players in the league before their move to the EPL.
Donny is unlucky the Euros got moved. He would likely have started as the 10 with Wijnaldum and Frenkie de Jong deeper in midfield. De Roon has looked very poor on the ball in his appearances and would likely not have played the easier games in groups where the Dutch are likely to dominate possession. Now that VDB is on the bench it's likely he won't get a call up. Leaving benched players at home is a much more common practice for the Dutch NT than for others. De Boer did the same with Strootman in the last international break.
Reminds me of Van Persie's situation at Arsenal. When he came in, his deal with Wenger was that he would get cameos here and there for the first two years. According to Robin, it was only after his return from the 2006 world cup that the dressing room started taking him seriously.
As some posters have pointed out, he wasn't Ajax's best player. Those were De Jong, De Ligt and Ziyech. VDB was still the best of the rest. Now it could very well be that's not good enough for United, but people saying that he was average or that he looked like a 'nothing player' for them are just rewriting history. He scored very important goals for them, had the best link up play from anyone on their team and rarely lost the ball (which is a more highly regarded skill over there, especially in the centre of the pitch)
I don't believe there's anything Donny can do in training to change his current predicament. He'll need an extended runs of games to prove he can come good and Ole has made it abundantly clear through his actions that the only way he'll "risk" playing Donny is if injuries hit.
Donny is unlucky the Euros got moved. He would likely have started as the 10 with Wijnaldum and Frenkie de Jong deeper in midfield. De Roon has looked very poor on the ball in his appearances and would likely not have played the easier games in groups where the Dutch are likely to dominate possession. Now that VDB is on the bench it's likely he won't get a call up. Leaving benched players at home is a much more common practice for the Dutch NT than for others. De Boer did the same with Strootman in the last international break.
Reminds me of Van Persie's situation at Arsenal. When he came in, his deal with Wenger was that he would get cameos here and there for the first two years. According to Robin, it was only after his return from the 2006 world cup that the dressing room started taking him seriously.
As some posters have pointed out, he wasn't Ajax's best player. Those were De Jong, De Ligt and Ziyech. VDB was still the best of the rest. Now it could very well be that's not good enough for United, but people saying that he was average or that he looked like a 'nothing player' for them are just rewriting history. He scored very important goals for them, had the best link up play from anyone on their team and rarely lost the ball (which is a more highly regarded skill over there, especially in the centre of the pitch)
I don't believe there's anything Donny can do in training to change his current predicament. He'll need an extended runs of games to prove he can come good and Ole has made it abundantly clear through his actions that the only way he'll "risk" playing Donny is if injuries hit.
I think Donny is going through Fred Phase. He will need to adjust his style in time.
I kinda get what you are saying but I tend to reject any narrative based on 'his team mates aren't good enough for him to perform' it's been said about pogba and was shown to be rubbish when Bruno came in and was about kagawa back in the day and was shown to be rubbish when he left.
If Van De Beek is the new Kagawa then Terranova is definitely the new Mad Winger. It was never Kagawa’s fault either.
It really seemed like he was being ignored, opened so many times without getting the ball.
This.
People with the "he's being ignored" narrative are hilarious.
I don’t think he was scouted wrongly or that he is a bad player
He was almost on his way to Barcelona
I have watched him play a few times now and that includes playing for Holland and I think no one know what is best position is
He is not a world class no 10 like Bruno or even Pogba and he is not a DM so where do you play him
He may be better suited to a team like city that play short intricate passes and slow build ups
I think he is very good at quick 1-2 passes but not sure he is a good fit for us
He was almost on his way to Barcelona
I have watched him play a few times now and that includes playing for Holland and I think no one know what is best position is
He is not a world class no 10 like Bruno or even Pogba and he is not a DM so where do you play him
He may be better suited to a team like city that play short intricate passes and slow build ups
I think he is very good at quick 1-2 passes but not sure he is a good fit for us
He is like a GOD who created human in his own image... but he is making a ball or rather use of it in his own image his passing are short, weak, slow and bring absolutely nothing to our team.
He is terrible at everything I do not remember one single dribble this season.
Pointless player when he come in we played 10 vs 11
Not only he is not contributing at all to our play, he is running in the exact same paths our other players are running and fecking our chances time and time again, without a doubt was Soton best defender.
I would love to see sth in him to help our team perform but it is not there, I was hoping at HT for him to come in and show me I Was wrong, no better match than that but he only prove me right. Just one game out of 10 to do sth will be nice. Lingerd or Pereira would at least have a shot or create some chances for others, I am sure of that.
I would sell him for 20-25 mln and try to buy proper player who suits our direct play style and is contributing a little.
He is terrible at everything I do not remember one single dribble this season.
Pointless player when he come in we played 10 vs 11
Not only he is not contributing at all to our play, he is running in the exact same paths our other players are running and fecking our chances time and time again, without a doubt was Soton best defender.
I would love to see sth in him to help our team perform but it is not there, I was hoping at HT for him to come in and show me I Was wrong, no better match than that but he only prove me right. Just one game out of 10 to do sth will be nice. Lingerd or Pereira would at least have a shot or create some chances for others, I am sure of that.
I would sell him for 20-25 mln and try to buy proper player who suits our direct play style and is contributing a little.
If this is the only thing you have to say after a 9 - 0 win you can do one. See you.
Well for me looking at him with Ajax he was never this super creative player where we play him in the centre to make chances for our forwards.
VDB is the opposite of a creative midfielder and is a goalscoring midfielder to the point that people value his skills as a shadow striker and even link him with similarities to thomas Muller.
The guy is constantly making runs. The game he played vs Liverpool you could see him as our CAM he was running to CF positions but ultimately no one was there to pick his runs out. Neither was he there to create a chance for others (because that's not his type of football) but neither was anyone picking his runs out.
Ole knows may know what type of player he is because he called him a goalscoring midfielder when we bought him.
If Ole was forced to buy him however then I dont necessarily agree that he is "a nothing player". We all were complaining about alot of our players playing like individuals than a Unit - ultimately Van De Beek is just playing to his individual abilities too and no one is linking up to get the best out of it yet.
I think yesterday's performance was just due to a lack of playing time, he made good runs but generally the same run that someone else was also making and were a better passing option.
We don't play like City, our play is based more on flair than control.Rashford,Greenwood,Martial,Bruno and Pogba (until recently) would rather run at defenders or shoot than pass the ball, makes it difficult for a player like Mata or Vdb to assert themselves.This was the case with Jesse as well, he was a player who made brilliant runs when ole came in but had better players with more individual talent around him for him to demand the ball.
He shouldn't be playing that forward with Bruno in the team.Bruno demands the ball all the time and rightfully so plus Fred or McT are essential to cover our backline.Either an 8 with Bruno and Fred/McT or a 10 with Pogba and Fred/McT would be his best options.
He is a good plan b right now and a club our size needs these type of alternate options, nothing wrong with that.It's upto him to break into the starting 11.
We don't play like City, our play is based more on flair than control.Rashford,Greenwood,Martial,Bruno and Pogba (until recently) would rather run at defenders or shoot than pass the ball, makes it difficult for a player like Mata or Vdb to assert themselves.This was the case with Jesse as well, he was a player who made brilliant runs when ole came in but had better players with more individual talent around him for him to demand the ball.
He shouldn't be playing that forward with Bruno in the team.Bruno demands the ball all the time and rightfully so plus Fred or McT are essential to cover our backline.Either an 8 with Bruno and Fred/McT or a 10 with Pogba and Fred/McT would be his best options.
He is a good plan b right now and a club our size needs these type of alternate options, nothing wrong with that.It's upto him to break into the starting 11.
This. Anyone can see the lad struggled but that comes with getting a consistent run of games, building up a match rhythm, having an understanding with your team mates.
Some players just elevate and tick after few days (Bruno), others need time to adapt (Fred). Bruno for example had an experience in different leagues and teams. His weird career path suggests also that he has experience and has become more adaptive. DvB is a player who for 15 years has played in the same team, the same training facilities etc. It is far more difficult for him to adapt. I agree that he is underwhelming. However, the same thing we were saying about Fred until he was given a run of games.
There is a quality player in him but unless there is a totally different formation change, I do not seem him starting unless Bruno is not in the starting 11.
If (hope I am wrong), Pogba does leave next summer then in our current 4-2-3-1 setup he can play as one of the pivots but he doesn't have the physicality, dribbling and passing ability that Pogba does give us. He would keep it simple and retain the ball better for sure but that is not enough in that role! I want a more expansive player in that position. I feel VDB is best as one of the two 8's in a 4-3-3 or as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1.
Like to give him at least 1 more full season, whether Pogba stays or not!
If (hope I am wrong), Pogba does leave next summer then in our current 4-2-3-1 setup he can play as one of the pivots but he doesn't have the physicality, dribbling and passing ability that Pogba does give us. He would keep it simple and retain the ball better for sure but that is not enough in that role! I want a more expansive player in that position. I feel VDB is best as one of the two 8's in a 4-3-3 or as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1.
Like to give him at least 1 more full season, whether Pogba stays or not!
I kinda agree with what you’re saying here but do you not think instead of doing what brought him to the dance in a way he is trying to emulate what Bruno does.
I agree he’s not going to create as many chances as Bruno but that’s not to say he won’t create chances because from what I’ve seen in the past he is just a very good footballer that can work space, pass and move so will create chances and openings. However for me he seems to be playing too far forward doing what Bruno does when on previous viewings he just had that nack of arriving in the box on to things where he’d score. I haven’t seen much of that from him since he arrived at United.
However against Liverpool I felt like positionally he was much better and although we didn’t utilise him enough he was in the correct positions for me. Last night however although not playing badly or anything we didn’t seem to look for him or find him and it seemed like he was just drifting about. Can’t decide if he was just playing positionally bad or we just weren’t seeing him in space. Although there were many times where it was like we were just playing with a front 6 and nowhere for any of them to move or create an option.
I still feel like he is probably going to play better with players like Mata who are good at keeping possession and working triangles. We currently just aren’t that team as we play in a somewhat rudimentary fashion.
You've got to give him a bit more time but yeah he's not affecting games enough when he is getting a chance for sure.
Wonder how this has affected his confidence, hopefully not much or just made him more determined.
I haven't seen anything that really stands out about him but it's important to remember that Fred and Lindelof started to come into their own more in their second season and maybe that might be the case with VDB. Lindelof actually started to play well towards the end of Jose's time here (Juve away I think it was, that was a real turning point for him).
It could also be that the player isn't really the signing of the manager, like I suspect Fred wasn't either.
It could also be that the player isn't really the signing of the manager, like I suspect Fred wasn't either.
Several posters have argued in different ways, I think correctly, that while VdB has ability he may not work out well for us.
@Andersons Dietician (great name, btw) made this point:
“I still feel like he is probably going to play better with players like Mata who are good at keeping possession and working triangles. We currently just aren’t that team as we play in a somewhat rudimentary fashion.”
Quite right. “Rudimentary” has a negative connotation, but I think it’s correct to say that our tactics are pretty rudimentary. The tactics are working so there can’t be any complaints, but Donny may just not be the right fit for us.
@Andersons Dietician (great name, btw) made this point:
“I still feel like he is probably going to play better with players like Mata who are good at keeping possession and working triangles. We currently just aren’t that team as we play in a somewhat rudimentary fashion.”
Quite right. “Rudimentary” has a negative connotation, but I think it’s correct to say that our tactics are pretty rudimentary. The tactics are working so there can’t be any complaints, but Donny may just not be the right fit for us.
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He is our future Firmino.
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