[Giant Midget]

When I look at Oles time here it's sometimes easy to forget that he has been a manager that changed his formation quite a lot during his time here nearer to the start of his career.

Off the top of my head I've seen the 352, 442 diamond, 4231 and the 4222. This was arguably when Matic was a season younger.

The only one I want to see a more of is the 433 and I'm hoping he hasn't used it because he feels he needs that CDM who can control his space. As others have said it should allow us to be a less counter attacking team and more a team with some possesion & creativity. This is where I see Rice fitting in.

I'm also a fan that believes we are the outright favourites for Haaland aswell. The manager, the league, the media, the straight up amount the club wants him and needs him etc makes me feel quite positive about the likelihood of this happening.

Whilst Haaland is perfect in playing counterattacking football is that how we are going to get the best of a mix of Haaland and players like Rashford, Amad and Greenwood by playing Mctomminay and Fred as our main partnership for a whole season? I value McFred more than alot of fans but they should be valued as a speciality against the big teams than our seasonal starting partnership.

That single CDM who can do his thing ( a player that we currently use 2 players for) allows us to play Pogba with Bruno. Pogba showed a bit this year that he can be attacking and score good goals further up the pitch. Anyone who knows VDB knows that he does the same thing. So does Bruno. The goals and creativity by multiple players with the freedom to be near a new number 9 like Haaland is how I see us next season.

A CDM is probably why Ole had called VDB a next season player.

Exactly. We also started with a 4-3-3 in Ole's first few games. IIRC, against Cardiff away in the first match it was Matic, Pogba and Herrera.

Even our forwards are more suited to being inside forwards in a 4-3-3 than wide midfielders in a 4-2-3-1. Really hope our plan is to get a CDM and have a proper midfield three.

 

[Bebestation]

Exactly. We also started with a 4-3-3 in Ole's first few games. IIRC, against Cardiff away in the first match it was Matic, Pogba and Herrera.

Even our forwards are more suited to being inside forwards in a 4-3-3 than wide midfielders in a 4-2-3-1. Really hope our plan is to get a CDM and have a proper midfield three.

Its another thing people have heard - why cant Bruno play a bit deeper as an attacking CM attacking enough and capable to get forward? Theres two reasons -

Ole probably values Bruno as our current best forward even though he is our attacking midfielder. (we see Bruno pushing further forward than our ST like Martial, Cavani and Greenwood). Getting a striker like Haaland reduces the need for Bruno to be the main goalscorer of the team and Having that striker take Brunos current space allows Bruno to drop a bit deeper when needed.

But if he does drop deeper so that he plays in line with an attacking minded Pogba or VDB - what do we need? We need that strict ball winning midfielder that provides defensive cover and a freedom for the rest of the team to attack or create. That's why I think we have possibly targeted Rice. People maybe a bit disappointed that we wont target a deep lying playmaker that adds some creative depth to our team and tempo - however with a ball winning midfielder like Rice, we arguably dont need it as we would be allowed to play Bruno, Pogba or VDB in midfield partnerships.

 

[Eplel]

It's VdB's fault that we play with 2 defensive midfielders even against the bottom teams of PL.

I think he's also responsible for Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance.

 

[romufc]

It's VdB's fault that we play with 2 defensive midfielders even against the bottom teams of PL.

I think he's also responsible for Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance.

Yes its Ole's fault that whenever Donny plays he doesnt show why he should start games..

No one on here can even say what Donny's position is, everyone trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

 

[Terranova]

Firstly, I think your approach is very unneccesary. We can disagree in a respectable manner.

Marten de Roon is not really a liked player as he's defensive and quite poor on the poor, Donny got the chance shortly after but just didn't impress. He scored his first 2 goals (2 goals and 1 assists in 17 matches in total, lots of subs, but quite poor for an attacking midfielder of his type). Despite his 2 goals, the next international break he was on the bench again precisely because he failed to impact the play. He is a very good finisher around the box, and a smart player, but it is not enough and I would be incredibly surprised if he is a starter for Holland during the Euro's.

VoetbalZone is the biggest general football site/forum in the Netherlands, if you read the pages/articles around the Dutch NT, you can see how many people don't even want Donny to be called up as they don't see the point. I am not saying this is the be all an end all, but it is the best representation of how Donny is regarded among the Dutch football fans. Article

Also, I just don't agree with you that everybody was baffled that he was benched. We had Ziyech, Neres, Tadic, Dolberg, Donny for 4 positions. Donny had poor form where he wasn't producing (when played as a 10, Donny must produce because of the type of player he is). He eventually fought for his place, got his place back and had a fantastic season so credit to him.

You can say the same thing about your post. You can have an opinion, that's fine, but proclaiming that your opinion is shared with most people, while it isn't(Should be clear for Dutch people), is not much better than how i posted. Clearly you aren't a VDB fan and it really shows(like it shows for me that i'm a fan). But even that link you posted is such fake news. People don't want him to be called up because he doesn't play, which is a fair. But you made it sound like they don't want him called up because he isn't good enough. I can list a dozen articles about him that pundits want him to start(in the time that he actually played football) and most comments were in agreement. So you're just cherry picking to make a statement. Very unnecesarty.

 

[AjaxCunian]

You can say the same thing about your post. You can have an opinion, that's fine, but proclaiming that your opinion is shared with most people, while it isn't(Should be clear for Dutch people), is not much better than how i posted. Clearly you aren't a VDB fan and it really shows(like it shows for me that i'm a fan). But even that link you posted is such fake news. People don't want him to be called up because he doesn't play, which is a fair. But you made it sound like they don't want him called up because he isn't good enough. I can list a dozen articles about him that pundits want him to start(in the time that he actually played football) and most comments were in agreement. So you're just cherry picking to make a statement. Very unnecesarty.

I am a VDB fan, and have been following Donny for years. That's why I made a post concerning "Maradonny" earlier in this thread as I have watched him play in the Youth Academy for years, where he and Nouri were the creme de la creme in European Youth Football. Fans can still be objective. Him not playing is one element, there are also many that think that he just doesnt add enough to the team which their are objective measures for as Ive shown in this thread. You do well to list the pundits if you can be bothered to, goodluck.

 

[Eplel]

Yes its Ole's fault that whenever Donny plays he doesnt show why he should start games..

No one on here can even say what Donny's position is, everyone trying to fit square pegs in round holes.

McT and Fred playing like shit every other week is reason enough for other players to get a chance too. And at the end of the day it was Ole that spent 40 million on him, so the failure is still on him.

 

[Jagga7]

Strange his game time has been so limited. He was a good player for Ajax.

 

[romufc]

McT and Fred playing like shit every other week is reason enough for other players to get a chance too. And at the end of the day it was Ole that spent 40 million on him, so the failure is still on him.

I am sorry but that is your opinion. We are 2nd with McT and Fred playing so do you think with Donny playing we would be top? If not then he doesn't improve the team.

Just because you don't like Fred and McTominay, don't say they play shit every other week when we havent lost to any of the bigger teams since Spurs as well. Clearly they play well to be in the team for those games.

Also, its not like Donny hasn't been given chances. We play a 4-2-3-1 with 2 pivots, it is clear that Donny isn't a pivot because when Pogba is fit he plays in that position.

 

[SuperiorXI]

It wouldn't be fair on VDB to expect him to light shit up tonight. I fear he may feature and may not be very good... this is a consequence of him not being played at all for months on end.

 

[Eplel]

I am sorry but that is your opinion. We are 2nd with McT and Fred playing so do you think with Donny playing we would be top? If not then he doesn't improve the team.

That's the shittiest argument I've read in here in a long long time. We're not 2nd because McT and Fred are ripping apart the oppositions no, so VdB doesn't need to bring us 20 points in order to be considered an imporvement.

 

[Lassitude42]

That's the shittiest argument I've read in here in a long long time. We're not 2nd because McT and Fred are ripping apart the oppositions no, so VdB doesn't need to bring us 20 points in order to be considered an imporvement.

Given VDB is poor at defending and poor at making progressive passes, why should he play instead of McFred? They have major limitations for sure, but at least they contribute a lot defensively

What does Donny bring to a midfield pivot?

 

[romufc]

That's the shittiest argument I've read in here in a long long time. We're not 2nd because McT and Fred are ripping apart the oppositions no, so VdB doesn't need to bring us 20 points in order to be considered an imporvement.

Your argument is to play him instead of McT and Fred without even appreciating their role. Do you know why we play 2 DM's?

Playing 2 pivots allows AWB, Shaw to attack, it also helps us defensively because they are MILES better than Donny defensively.

They allow Rashford and Bruno to press higher up the pitch because they know that there are DM;s to cover.

They allow Rashford to cheat defensively meaning we are a threat on the counter attack.

Donny will play simple passes, granted he will lose the ball less, but that will be determent to our defending.

Why woould a manager play a player who can pass 5 yards, not make progressive passes and cannot defend?

 

[Eplel]

People here would have you believe McT and Fred are Roy Keane and Lothar Matthaus regens.

 

[Eplel]

Why woould a manager play a player who can pass 5 yards, not make progressive passes and cannot defend?

You tell me why did he pay 38 million for him.

 

[romufc]

You tell me why did he pay 38 million for him.

I forget Ole is in charge of transfers. He is our scout, negotiator and the lot.

Just because Donny hasn't played much this season doesnt mean he wont play. Donny is used to playing a style that is different to this team which means we need a pre season to trial different formations.

Something we were not afforded this season. Alot of players struggle in the first season, who's to say he wont change formations to include Donny next?

Also, he was also signed to cover for Bruno, no one expected Bruno to continue his form from last season. It 100% makes sense to get a player in case the Bruno drops form or gets injured.

It is on Donny to say to the manager, I need to play and do so by performances. He hasn't so far, but fans like you throwing your toys out the pram because it suits your narrative to have a go at the manager for yet another thing.

 

[TrustInOle]

Feels very much like Fred's first season with us, alot of disappointments and not really showing why we bought him. I have faith he will come good though, last year was crazy hard mentally just living 20 miles away from family, I imagine it was alot harder relocating countries during this period without the other many discrepancies that come with playing for United, fans expectations, media focus ect. This season is highly unusual and shouldn't be the barometer to measure how useful a player could be to us down the line, I think he deserves patience enough to see what he can provide next season.

In all honesty I don't know many summer signings that have been a relative success this season, though I could be wildly mistaken?

 

[Adam-Utd]

The simple answer is our team relies on everybody being athletic individually, we play at 100mph and often have big spaces between our players. If you can't carry the ball or run away from an opponent individually you'll struggle. You can see with Donny he doesn't have that pace, he's looking for a team mate to give it to and run off the ball instead.

He's clearly a very good technician and in a tighter team he'd excel. He'd be much better playing for City in the Gundogan role for instance, or even a false 9.

I do think he's still got a chance to make it here, but the style of Ajax is so different to how we play. I do think we should give him more of a chance deeper where he can be more involved.

 

[lex talionis]

People here would have you believe McT and Fred are Roy Keane and Lothar Matthaus regens.

I know what you mean. I got hammered here a few days ago for refusing to acknowledge that Fred is “our most important player”.

As for Donny, of course we should have played him more earlier in the season but now we are where we are and we’ve got to run Bruno and Pogba hard until we’re free and clear and have the luxury to reach deep into the squad.

 

[Vidyoyo]

I know what you mean. I got hammered here a few days ago for refusing to acknowledge that Fred is “our most important player”.

As for Donny, of course we should have played him more earlier in the season but now we are where we are and we’ve got to run Bruno and Pogba hard until we’re free and clear and have the luxury to reach deep into the squad.

Jeez who said that? Out of all our players, the easiest to replace is probably Fred. I like the man but any box-to-box mid who can tackle could do his job.

Edit: Within reason obviously.

 

[Bebestation]

Jeez who said that? Out of all our players, the easiest to replace is probably Fred. I like the man but any box-to-box mid who can tackle could do his job.

Yeah to be honest every Liverpool midfielder except Thiago is literally a copy of Fred.

 

[lex talionis]

Jeez who said that? Out of all our players, the easiest to replace is probably Fred. I like the man but any box-to-box mid who can tackle could do his job.

I’m not going to out him, but it looks like he’s a long time poster here. He gave me a full flogging and suggested that, due to my ignorance about Fred’s greatness, I follow another sport like biathlon. Hilarious stuff, but all good as a diversity of opinion makes a forum stronger.

 

[MadDogg]

Jeez who said that? Out of all our players, the easiest to replace is probably Fred. I like the man but any box-to-box mid who can tackle could do his job.

Edit: Within reason obviously.

That's going over the top. Fred does more defensive work than any notable midfielder in the league other than Ndidi and Kante (both of whom are only just ahead), while his creative work is comfortably ahead of theirs (absolutely miles ahead of Ndidi). Considering our normal front three of Rashford, Martial and Greenwood don't do much defensive work, Fred's work-rate is important in stopping us getting overrun and not many can match him there.

 

[Tony247]

United traditionally play direct football. Ole is moulding the team into playing that game. That means moving the ball forward with minimum passes. 5 yard passers like Herrera, Lingard, Donny can kill the momentum. Coming from Ajax I was genuinely expecting better passing range from their midfielder. Unfortunately Donny has not demonstrated that yet. It would be very difficult for Ole to fit him in the team without creating imbalance.

Lets see what happens. Fred earlier frustrated the fans but now has become an integral part of the team. Hope Donny follows the same trajectory.

 

[Pickle85]

Games seemed to have passed him by too much so far. He seems like the kind of player that can enhance what's around him but not the kind of player to take the game by the scruff himself. Nothing wrong with that but we miss midfielders with the capability to do the latter when pogba is out (though his consistency is also questionable, whether because of injury or other).

It's too early to panic and write him off, for sure, but I don't think it's surprising that a few (me included) are getting concerned by how limited his game time has been so far.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Firstly, I think your approach is very unneccesary. We can disagree in a respectable manner.

Marten de Roon is not really a liked player as he's defensive and quite poor on the poor, Donny got the chance shortly after but just didn't impress. He scored his first 2 goals (2 goals and 1 assists in 17 matches in total, lots of subs, but quite poor for an attacking midfielder of his type). Despite his 2 goals, the next international break he was on the bench again precisely because he failed to impact the play. He is a very good finisher around the box, and a smart player, but it is not enough and I would be incredibly surprised if he is a starter for Holland during the Euro's.

VoetbalZone is the biggest general football site/forum in the Netherlands, if you read the pages/articles around the Dutch NT, you can see how many people don't even want Donny to be called up as they don't see the point. I am not saying this is the be all an end all, but it is the best representation of how Donny is regarded among the Dutch football fans. Article

Also, I just don't agree with you that everybody was baffled that he was benched. We had Ziyech, Neres, Tadic, Dolberg, Donny for 4 positions. Donny had poor form where he wasn't producing (when played as a 10, Donny must produce because of the type of player he is). He eventually fought for his place, got his place back and had a fantastic season so credit to him.

Ooh are you the AjaxCunian from voetbalzone, I always wonder if the utd fans on there are on here.

 

[kirk buttercup]

flawless again tonight.

 

[The Mitcher]

flawless again tonight.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Kirkception

 

[RC89]

Not been a disaster? He's been horrendous. Signings that don't feature are the worst kind imo

I obviously meant he's not been disastrous in terms of performances (although not exactly great either)

 

[Bebestation]

On my United app it shows that he is starting at LAM with Pogba at CAM. VDB played LAM if I remember against Everton and was awful.

I'd be okay with Pogba at LAM and VDB at CAM.

VDB seems like he is not getting a chance in his best position.

Everytime I see him being played at LAM it makes me wonder if Ole tried for Grealish and ended up getting VDB who is not as good outwide.

I really want to see VDB in his best position like a shadow striker.

 

[TheGame]

On my United app it shows that he is starting at LAM with Pogba at CAM. VDB played LAM if I remember against Everton and was awful.

I'd be okay with Pogba at LAM and VDB at CAM.

VDB seems like he is not getting a chance in his best position.

Everytime I see him being played at LAM it makes me wonder if Ole tried for Grealish and ended up getting VDB who is not as good outwide.

I really want to see VDB in his best position like a shadow striker.

That is not his best position at all. At Ajax he played slightly further forward in a 3, not in a 10 position. Would prefer him to play alongside a DM really with someone like Bruno or Pogba in front.

 

[mu4c_20le]

His best moment was avoiding the ball

 

[Frank White]

His best moment was avoiding the ball

This. Another game where he plays and it’s like we have 10 men, genuinely offers nothing.

 

[Godfather]

His best moment was avoiding the ball

This

 

[OrcaFat]

Difficult for him for two reasons. One, he’s been out for a while; two, he’s not yet good enough to get into our team properly. I’ve never thought it before but I think he should go on loan for a year.

 

[klayton88]

Need a gif of him turning his back on a counter attack and instead running back in to our corner. @GifLord

 

[sugar_kane]

Absolutely horrendous signing, best for everyone concerned that we move him on in the Summer - it simply has not worked for either party.

Fred was dire, absolutely horrendous in the first half but at least he was trying - Donny looks like his heart hasn't been in it for months.

 

[acnumber9]

Time for the work experience kid to go home. As said above, his best moment was not touching the ball. Which is something he’s remarkably good at.

 

[spiriticon]

Helllo..hello....is there anybody in there...?