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RUCK4444

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He is not a substitute.He is better than most of the players who were on the pitch yesterday.

You can not be a sub player if those in the starting squad are worse than you.

This is just a case of a manager who hasn't got a clue whatsoever.
:rolleyes:

He’s a no 10. Bruno is better than him and was on the pitch.
Pogba is better than him and was also brought onto the pitch and Bruno dropped deeper.

Did you want three attacking midfielders on the pitch and be overrun?

He’s rotation for Bruno, nothing else.
 

Andersons Dietician

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He is not a substitute.He is better than most of the players who were on the pitch yesterday.

You can not be a sub player if those in the starting squad are worse than you.

This is just a case of a manager who hasn't got a clue whatsoever.
Not saying he isn’t a good player but I thought it was pretty obvious why he was bought as where was he going to fit in the squad when Pogba, Bruno, Rashford are ahead of him. If we had brought Sancho in for the RW there wasn’t any space for him in our first 11 other than ousting Bruno.

Luckily for him no Sancho so there is an extra position on RW for him to fight for with Greenwood whilst also being the Bruno alternate.

Although like I said in my first post probably should have started over James but I’m guessing Ole had it in his mind that James would be the Sacrificial lamb to make way for Cavani and Rashford punted to the left.
 

RemisMoses

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I think he was bought as Pogbas/Matas replacement. We had to go for him this summer and take advantage of COVID and no other big clubs having the funds.

Hes got plenty of time, it’s a long season with plenty of games.
 

Stretender

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Not saying he isn’t a good player but I thought it was pretty obvious why he was bought as where was he going to fit in the squad when Pogba, Bruno, Rashford are ahead of him. If we had brought Sancho in for the RW there wasn’t any space for him in our first 11 other than ousting Bruno.

Luckily for him no Sancho so there is an extra position on RW for him to fight for with Greenwood whilst also being the Bruno alternate.

Although like I said in my first post probably should have started over James but I’m guessing Ole had it in his mind that James would be the Sacrificial lamb to make way for Cavani and Rashford punted to the left.
All the players you have mentioned are not playing better than Van De Beek.

Any manager worth his salt would have played Van De Beek ahead of all those 4 names you mentioned.

It seems like Ole himself, most United fans pick a team based on reputation or name rather than actual performances.

In a team that starts Dan James, Mata, Rashford etc. there will always be a place for Van De Beek.
 

Andersons Dietician

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All the players you have mentioned are not playing better than Van De Beek.

Any manager worth his salt would have played Van De Beek ahead of all those 4 names you mentioned.

It seems like Ole himself, most United fans pick a team based on reputation or name rather than actual performances.

In a team that starts Dan James, Mata, Rashford etc. there will always be a place for Van De Beek.
When have you seen Van set Beek playing to know he is playing better than those players? A quick cameo against Newcastle or Palace, a couple of minutes here or there. Do you work at Carrington and get to watch the training and games?
 

Borys

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It makes you think we signed de Bruyne level player, the longer he is on bench the better he becomes!

Seriously though, I don't see how he gets ahead of any of Fred / McTominay (not his position) / Bruno / Pogba (direct rivals, but better than Donny) in near future. If they are all fit he'll be a sub at best.
 

GioF

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I doubt James will start many games once Martial is back. This was a necessity. Cavani probably wasn't ready to start the game and thus James got the nod. Donny is not a winger and cannot be expected to fulfill the role as James does (running up and down the wing to ensure Reece James doesn't get too comfortable, while also providing an attacking outlet and a threat on the counter)

I understand the issue about Martial being missing but we could of kept Marcus left wing and brought in Ighalo up top if we kept the 4-3-3 formation. James is shocking and offers zero going forward so I’d rather of played Telles left wing if we just wanted to minimise Reece James attacking which is not exactly something we should sacrifice an attacking player for as Reece James isn’t prime Cafu

I don't think there are many people who argue against AWB's defensive qualities. But in a diamond it is the fullbacks who provide the width. Did you not see how limited AWB is in attack, especially with the ball? At best, he creates space with his presence. But he both doesn't make the right decisions with the ball, nor he controls it very well.

This is my point entirely. Of course we know awb is not great going forward and when we play the inverted right winger (Mata, Greenwood, Jesse) he’s more often than not the furthest wide anyway. We don’t attack fullbacks and look for crosses into the box so I don’t see why having our flair players in and around the box albeit centrally and creating from there.

I do hope he gets better in this aspect of his game because I like him but at the moment he is not great in attack. If we play teams who will defend deep and pose no significant threat down their left wing, I would prefer if we try Williams.


I understand what your saying but by playing the diamond it allows whoever is playing on the right side of the diamond to not have to track back and double up on the winger as Awb takes them away game in game out. Already it puts a player with real quality (Bruno, Pogba, Dvb, Mata) whoever is playing in that role to be further up the pitch and closer to our attackers which I feel we really need to improve. The spaces between midfield and attack is far too big. The complete opposite at the back where McTominay plays so deep


I think this is pretty much the plan but Donny is also a rotation option for the wide forward positions, as well as Bruno's spot.

I’d love to see Dvb with Bruno and Pogba and see the chances they’d create.


One can only hope Pellistri and Diallo address that point!

Ha I know fingers crossed they can come good. Diallo looks unreal I can’t wait to see him in red come January.
 

georgipep

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I understand what your saying but by playing the diamond it allows whoever is playing on the right side of the diamond to not have to track back and double up on the winger as Awb takes them away game in game out. Already it puts a player with real quality (Bruno, Pogba, Dvb, Mata) whoever is playing in that role to be further up the pitch and closer to our attackers which I feel we really need to improve. The spaces between midfield and attack is far too big. The complete opposite at the back where McTominay plays so deep
The diamond will make us extremely central unless we play Williams and Telles but it would also probably require Matic to play the deepest midfield role and screen the defence. Unfortunately, I think he no longer has the legs to perform that role at the quality we need.
I’d love to see Dvb with Bruno and Pogba and see the chances they’d create.
We will surely see the combination at some point during the season but I don't expect them to start a game together against a strong opponent.
 

wolvored

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I think he was bought as Pogbas/Matas replacement. We had to go for him this summer and take advantage of COVID and no other big clubs having the funds.

Hes got plenty of time, it’s a long season with plenty of games.
Agree. I think Pogba will be gone no later than next summer. If we bought a proper DM in we could play VDB and Bruno together.
 

TwoSheds

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I reckon he's in the gym hitting it hard and eventually he'll get a chance deeper in midfield. We're not throwing him in against a team as strong as Chelsea though. Maybe Istanbul or something.
 

UncleBob

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fecking bizarre the amount of attention this gets, he'll get a shitload of matches this season
 

Giggsyking

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It is fecking impossible to reason with Ole fan boys, when we ask why is he on the bench they say we need squad depth that is why we bought him. When we ask them why Ole should be excused for not challenging for the title, they say Ole does not have the players. The fecking state of those people.
 

11101

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I have always thought we bought him because we know Pogba is off at the end of this season. Nobody should expect him to be starting over Bruno and Pogba, but he must not be training well if he's not getting in ahead of Mata and James. It's fine for now but if he's still not getting games by January we should be concerned.
 

Still ill

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fecking bizarre the amount of attention this gets, he'll get a shitload of matches this season
Absolutely. Fabinho didn't get a run for months at Liverpool. Keita either. I don't remember half the fuss. Every man and his fecking dog in the papers this morning telling him he's made the wrong move. All a bit weird.
 

romufc

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It is fecking impossible to reason with Ole fan boys, when we ask why is he on the bench they say we need squad depth that is why we bought him. When we ask them why Ole should be excused for not challenging for the title, they say Ole does not have the players. The fecking state of those people.
Yes, because the Ole out are just waiting for the next bad results to start the Ole out. Having depth in one position means challenge for the league?

It is clear as day we needed a CDM, CB, RW and we got none of those.

And for people like you, I will respond by saying PSG, Newcastle are the reason we have him and others on the bench, squad depth = better chance of winning.

We kept in the game and brought on Pogba and the like to help us, whereas last season we would be bringing on Ighalo, Perreira and Lingard.
 

Crimson King

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fecking bizarre the amount of attention this gets, he'll get a shitload of matches this season
It's fecking ridiculous and is just another example of the ridiculous hyperbole that surrounds anything the club do. DvB is a good player with the potential to get better and that's what we've signed, it's a long term investment. Do you think he'd have started more at Madrid?

We wouldn't be any higher up the table if he'd started every game. Pogba isn't even getting in the team at the moment, and Ole has opted to go more solid recently as the lack of a pre season has seen us be carved open. These are all valid reasons why he hasn't started yet, but he'll still play plenty of games and I wouldn't be surprised if he's established himself as a starter by the end of the season.

People already talking about he might want to leave in January... That's only 2 months away! Check your fecking heads! I wish our fans (and unfortunately ex-pros working as supposed 'expert' pundits) wouldn't fall into the media hysteria so easily. We just had a great win against PSG and have looked overall much better the last 3 games. Sure there's still a long way to go and Ole still has a lot to prove this season, but it's mental that the media are now using this as a stick to beat him with because they can't use performances right now.

How come Klopp never got this kind of heat for not starting Keita? I'm pretty sure he's still a squad option there despite being one of their record signings and being there a few years now. How's that not a flop signing? Why aren't Wolves being questioned about signing an 18 year old striker for £40m who just sits on the bench? Surely a player that costs that much should jump straight into the team at a club like Wolves?

It's because they're not United, these stories don't generate clicks or sell papers. They go against the established script, average Jo Bloggs who supports Wycombe Wanderers doesn't want to read that as he tucks into his bacon sarnie in the morning, it doesn't fill him with glee and a sense of warped superiority because the 'mighty Man Utd' are struggling.

There's nothing to see here at the moment, don't fall for the bullshit.
 

Adam-Utd

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The issue for VDB is Fernandes has made himself almost undroppable and he wants to play every match.

Unless we change the formation to a 4-3-3 or use Fernandes as a CM i'm not sure where he would play. He's not athletic enough for the wing and that would be a waste to play him there.

I think a midfield of Matic - Pogba - VDB would work, and have Fernandes as a left wing playmaker with Telles overlapping. Fernandes often roams around the pitch anyway so he doesn't need to keep the width.
 

Giggsyking

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Yes, because the Ole out are just waiting for the next bad results to start the Ole out. Having depth in one position means challenge for the league?

It is clear as day we needed a CDM, CB, RW and we got none of those.

And for people like you, I will respond by saying PSG, Newcastle are the reason we have him and others on the bench, squad depth = better chance of winning.

We kept in the game and brought on Pogba and the like to help us, whereas last season we would be bringing on Ighalo, Perreira and Lingard.
I dont care who plays, do you think I care DVB is not playing? my only focus is winning titles, If Ole plays 11 Lingards I dont give a shit as long as we are challenging for the title. I am talking about finding excuse after excuse after excuse for the manager by his fans. If he has the luxury to put Pogba (95m pound), DVB (40m pound) and Matic (40m) on the bench where as no one of his new signings on the pitch then I expect less moaning by his fanboys about the quality of the squad. A decent manager should challenge with the squad we have. An excellent manager can cruise through the league with the squad we have and it takes only a bad manager to not challenge.
 

romufc

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I dont care who plays, do you think I care DVB is not playing? my only focus is winning titles, If Ole plays 11 Lingards I dont give a shit as long as we are challenging for the title. I am talking about finding excuse after excuse after excuse for the manager by his fans. If he has the luxury to put Pogba (95m pound), DVB (40m pound) and Matic (40m) on the bench where as no one of his new signings on the pitch then I expect less moaning by his fanboys about the quality of the squad. A decent manager should challenge with the squad we have. An excellent manager can cruise through the league with the squad we have and it takes only a bad manager to not challenge.
Okay, so Jose is an Excellent manager, the only thing we cruised is out of the CL.

LVG was a decent manager- did we challenge?
 

Giggsyking

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Okay, so Jose is an Excellent manager, the only thing we cruised is out of the CL.

LVG was a decent manager- did we challenge?
He is not (at least for the last few years). He deservedly got sacked for not challenging for the league after spending a fortune.
 

Lennon7

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I’m sick of this shite. We’ve signed a relatively young attacking midfielder who is excellent back up for Bruno at the very least. Would there be similar articles about Jota if their front 3 was fully fit?
 

Adam-Utd

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Think Donny will start this Wednesday.

We've got Arsenal again on the weekend and Fred/Mctominay have played the last 3 games in a row.

I suspect we will play a 4-3-3 of Matic, VDB and Pogba
 

Giggsyking

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He had won the PL title 2 seasons before he came to us.
He was sacked by his beloved team when he was near relegation. Not a good manager in the last few years, he won the league because he had many world class players in Chelsea and Conte coming right after him and winning the league was a proof.
 

romufc

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He was sacked by his beloved team when he was near relegation. Not a good manager in the last few years, he won the league because he had many world class players in Chelsea and Conte coming right after him and winning the league was a proof.
Didn't Klopp do the same in his final season, so why is he an excellent manager?

Jose has been sacked from alot of job, he's still won leagues.

So you say an excellent manager cruises the league, who would that be ?
 
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The issue for VDB is Fernandes has made himself almost undroppable and he wants to play every match.

Unless we change the formation to a 4-3-3 or use Fernandes as a CM i'm not sure where he would play. He's not athletic enough for the wing and that would be a waste to play him there.

I think a midfield of Matic - Pogba - VDB would work, and have Fernandes as a left wing playmaker with Telles overlapping. Fernandes often roams around the pitch anyway so he doesn't need to keep the width.
Its not about being dropped its about rotation. When KDB is fit he doesn't play every game because Pep likes to rotate. You have to make use of the squad.
 

UncleBob

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It is fecking impossible to reason with Ole fan boys, when we ask why is he on the bench they say we need squad depth that is why we bought him. When we ask them why Ole should be excused for not challenging for the title, they say Ole does not have the players. The fecking state of those people.
I love how your use of "we".

In general, the ignorance on display is pretty astonishing. Considering the bitching and moaning last season when Lingard and/or Pereira started matches, or even just introduced as subs, it's a bit of a surprise that the same users now can't fathom the concept that squad depth is a positive thing. He is by far our worst midfielder of all time, your words on Pereira.

We're 8 matches into a season where the fixture list is going to be congested, combined with the fact that Beek is a new signing in a summer where there's been feck all of a pre-season due to covid-19. He'll get plenty of matches, we're introducing him slowly and that's perfectly fine.
 

Volumiza

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I don't think t helps that we've not had the strongest start to the season either. With him only recently joining us, getting to know the team and the way they play and team only just getting to know him and they way he plays I'm not surprised to see him not instantly being thrown in.

He'll get a lot of game time this season. Not sure what the panic is.
 

Adam-Utd

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With all due respect, he is twice as athletic as Mata.
He really isn't, they're probably about the same speed running - just look at the chance he had at the end of the newcastle match.

He's a baller that relies on good movement and technique, he has to play in the middle.


Its not about being dropped its about rotation. When KDB is fit he doesn't play every game because Pep likes to rotate. You have to make use of the squad.
Well I agree with that, but it seems like Ole wants him to play every match possible. He should probably rest him this Wednesday ready for Arsenal on the weekend but I'd be very surprised if he doesn't play.
 

Kamprad

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I love these kind of midfielders because they’re so effective. Late runs in the box and so on. So it’s a good buy and if Ole manages the team in a good way he should get enough playing time his first season. Of course it’s better to be a starter from day one like Bruno but it’s a long season and many games so he’ll be fine hopefully.
 

Utd heap

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It's a complete non story.

Will be completely forgotten by December when he has started 3/4 matches.
 

luke511

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Not a coincidence this. We've looked better and more fluid everytime he's been on the pitch in the league, especially when him and Bruno are playing together. Hopefully we'll see a Fred VDB Bruno midfield soon.
 

Poborsky's hair

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I see what you are saying but i am not sure what all positions are being worked on means, sounds a bit like woodward speak to me

People are focussing on the van der beek signing because its clear we are on a limited budget but we spent a significsnt part of our budget on a player who may not fit into the managers plans. I agree we shouldnt just buy players for the sake of it but yesterdays game highlighted the need for another wide player now (and not in 1-2 years). I think its reasonable to question why we didnt sign players who would obviously improve the positions we most needed to improve
I think since Ole took over, I am sure our transfers are heavily discussed with him even if the scouting team might have their picks ready. Wide player was certainly needed but part of the strategy was also unveiled before which said we have our targets and want to get players of right profiles in and we´d rather wait for the right man then try for an inferior option. I think we are confident we can get Sancho next summer.

Meanwhile we last minute brought a couple of players in Pellistri and Diallo but I believe that those players are not alternatives to Jadon by any means becasue he´s an established (almost) world class player as apposed the two younsgters who barely played senior football.

But before you ask I reckon because of some funds were not used we decided to invest in future as part of our youth strategy so we could strenghten our chance to develop a WC winger ourselves. IMO much better then splash 50mil on a player we will have to shift out in a couple of years..